I mean, they set up a whole process to officially exempt people, seems like a lot of work.
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by American Legionaries » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:13 am
by New-Minneapolis » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:16 am
by American Legionaries » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:17 am
by The Great Nevada Overlord » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:18 am
by Emotional Support Crocodile » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:19 am
The Great Nevada Overlord wrote:Adolfs mom was jewish which by the religion means that Adolf himself was a jew.
by The Great Nevada Overlord » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:22 am
by Technoscience Leftwing » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:45 am
by New-Minneapolis » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:48 am
Technoscience Leftwing wrote:In our Soviet textbooks, fascism was told not through a set of signs, but through the inner essence of this phenomenon. Its essence is the dictatorship of the monopolistic bourgeoisie. Everything else is optional (for example, fascism does not require a war for world domination or the extermination of ethnic minorities - the Franco and Salazar regimes did without it).
The logic of the phenomenon is as follows: in market competition, small owners lose and large monopolies win; these monopolies use their capital to lobby for the policy they need; and they need the following policy - to suppress the protests of the poor inside the country, and to protect themselves from the competition of foreign countries, and with luck, to oust foreign competitors with the help of military force. It is for this task that monopolies begin to finance fascist ideologues, politicians and parties. To attract the masses, such parties begin to propagandize the myth of a single nation with a single interest, for which police discipline and military power are useful. National unity is a myth, because all the profits from the successes of the "nation" are taken by billionaires and rulers, and all the costs are paid by the poor and the common people. However, gullible people believe in this myth, especially if they suffered from the actions of the previous, liberal government (crisis, hyperinflation). As a result, the deceived poor, supporting the fascists, begin to strengthen the very police apparatus that suppresses them. This police apparatus begins to eliminate all opportunities for social protest, and both rebellious forms (riots, strikes) and peaceful escapist ones (work evasion, emigration, childlessness) are eliminated. The parliament is turning into a puppet, liberal and leftist parties are being destroyed, the country is turning into a military camp, the military-industrial complex is receiving large orders, the situation of workers and the poor is deteriorating (lengthening of the working day, falling real wages, political disenfranchisement). Ideology and culture encourage everything that is beneficial to the ruling class, everything that educates the poor in obedience, asceticism, diligence and fertility. Many elements of culture are borrowed from the periods of the Middle Ages and absolutism (the cult of military valor, loyalty to the suzerain, patriarchal traditions, religion). Then the fascist government can go on a military adventure (Hitler, Mussolini), or evade it (Franco, Salazar). In the latter case, it can exist for quite a long time, oppressing the common people, and bringing profits and power to the monopolistic bourgeoisie.
by Technoscience Leftwing » Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:54 am
New-Minneapolis wrote:Did you actually grow up in the Soviet Union, or you role playing a character right now?
Because this is an OOC thread.
by New-Minneapolis » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:00 am
Technoscience Leftwing wrote:New-Minneapolis wrote:Did you actually grow up in the Soviet Union, or you role playing a character right now?
Because this is an OOC thread.
На самом деле вырос в СССР. Поэтому для меня и понятно, каковы сейчас тенденции в РФ и что их реально вызывает.
Actually grew up in the USSR. Therefore, it is clear to me what the current trends in the Russian Federation are and what really causes them. After all, fascism is not only a distant past or marginal groups, but also trends in the modern state policy of many states.
by Technoscience Leftwing » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:06 am
New-Minneapolis wrote:Technoscience Leftwing wrote:
На самом деле вырос в СССР. Поэтому для меня и понятно, каковы сейчас тенденции в РФ и что их реально вызывает.
Actually grew up in the USSR. Therefore, it is clear to me what the current trends in the Russian Federation are and what really causes them. After all, fascism is not only a distant past or marginal groups, but also trends in the modern state policy of many states.
Wow, thank you for sharing that with us. Did soviet education ever get into how racial hatred plays a role in Fascism?
Fascism (ital. fascismo, from fascio - bundle, bundle, association), a political trend that arose in capitalist countries during the general crisis of capitalism and expresses the interests of the most reactionary and aggressive forces of the imperialist bourgeoisie. F. in power is a terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary forces of monopolistic capital, carried out with the aim of preserving the capitalist system. The most important distinguishing features of F. - the use of extreme forms of violence to suppress the working class and all workers, militant anti-communism, chauvinism, racism, widespread use of state-monopolistic methods of regulating the economy, maximum control over all manifestations of public and private life of citizens, extensive ties with a fairly significant part of the population that does not belong to the ruling classes, the ability through nationalist and social demagogy to mobilize and politically activate it in the interests of the exploitative system ( mass base F. - mainly the middle strata of capitalist society). F.'s foreign policy is the policy of imperialist seizures.
by New-Minneapolis » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:09 am
Technoscience Leftwing wrote:New-Minneapolis wrote:
Wow, thank you for sharing that with us. Did soviet education ever get into how racial hatred plays a role in Fascism?
Of course, Soviet textbooks and encyclopedias mentioned that fascism preaches racial hatred. But the main emphasis was placed on the class essence of fascism.
by Technoscience Leftwing » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:14 am
New-Minneapolis wrote:Technoscience Leftwing wrote:
Of course, Soviet textbooks and encyclopedias mentioned that fascism preaches racial hatred. But the main emphasis was placed on the class essence of fascism.
Ah, I see. In the west, we tend to place heavy focus on the racial hatred that it promotes.
by Risottia » Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:05 am
by Scinan » Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:35 am
by The Selkie » Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:04 am
Scinan wrote:It's easy to vilify fascism for what it has done, associating it closely with the specific crimes which particularly infamous fascist regimes have committed (often, particularly following the fall of the Nazi party in Germany, while pretending to be anything other than fascist). I will here take the controversial stance, if only for the sake of argument, the fascism is not inherently bound to ideas like social darwinism, eugenics or any particular obsession which the 'beloved leader' of such a regime might promote as a necessity for the well-being of their nation.
Rather, I would prefer to focus on the idea of fascism as promoting the idea of the State as a cult. At the root of fascist ideology is the idea that there is something sacred about ones homeland, ones ethnicity, ones culture, that is to be held inviolate and pure against all which might otherwise inflect their development. Something which must be protected and cultivated even at the expense of individual members of the society in question.
At its heart fascism promotes the state as synonymous with divinity; It is an ideology of promised lands and greater goods which inevitably attracts and promotes charismatic narcissists who identify themselves with that sacred ideal and are wholly willing to burn other people's lives wholesale so long as it makes them feel that they are living in a better world. Which, dwelling in the upper class of the society they have hijacked, they invariably will until the whole thing collapses around their brittle, overinflated egos.
As such it is no surprise at all that fascist regimes inevitably adopt violent, militaristic outlooks to protect themselves from outside interference and to grasp at more. It is no surprise at all when they adopt ideas like eugenics or develop obsessions with 'order'. Such systemic obsessions are a natural product of totalitarian faith placed in singular figures elevated to living godhood; Whether or not they are clearly identified as such or adopt more humble rhetoric for themselves, when one persons will dictates the course of millions of lives so too will their obsessions and pathologies.
Unfortunately for the future of our species, much as democracy, capitalism and communism alike, fascism is also a natural and inevitable outgrowth of human psychology. It emanates from our own tendencies towards tribalism and the desire to protect ones own kin. Like all extremist ideology it hijacks and hyperbolises our own better instincts against us, slaughtering humanity on the altar of humanity. It is not something that can simply be rooted out and destroyed without destroying the very same part of ourselves which allows us to identify and fight against it; The desire to protect ourselves and others from that which threatens us.
We can only recognize it for what it is; Fear writ large. Fear of the other. Fear of loss. Fear of deprivation, twisted into endless, rapacious hunger. We must learn to see the humanity in those who seek to practice such things and know them for what they are. They are not merely the convenient villains of history. They are not in themselves outgrowths of some mysterious, ontological evil living beyond us. The devil did not make them do it; They did it all themselves. For those they loved they burned those they despised.
They are people, wounded, afraid and enraged. Rightly or wrongly, they believe themselves endangered and react as humans inevitably react when threatened. How else do we imagine they manage to collaborate with one another, if not through finding kinship in shared terror and shared hatred of what which terrifies them? If we do not want them to trend towards fascism, we must be prepared to find ways to address and calm their fears, hurts and hatreds. Fascism is a memetic pathogen which spreads like a plague through the idea of the family, the community, the state. It can only truly be defeated on the same ground, before it blooms into concentration camps and mass graves.
Until then the next fascistic genocide is an inevitable byproduct of our own collective failures to see each other as human.
I play PT, MT and a bit FT. I am into character-RPs.
by Furballland » Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:22 am
The Selkie wrote:Furballland wrote:Fascism is a horrible from of government, and Fascism deserves nothing!
Ideology, Furballland. Fascism is an ideology, like Socialism and Liberalism. A set of ideas and ideals to explain the world and to solve the issues said idealogy perceives.
Forms of government are, for example, democracy or monarchy. A general system of who has which power and where it is derived from.
That all being said, Fascism is... as a German, I have a special relationship to one form of Fascism, namely to National Socialism. Its rise, its terror regime and its crimes were always topics in school, ever since I was 15. We read Anne Frank's Diary in German Language Class, went through the rise to power twice in History, didn't even really touch on WW2 itself (and on the Pacific only in three lines) and so on.
What actually made the NS the NS, however, we never really touched. That was left to personal studies - documentaries by Guido Knopp helped a lot there.
I found NS, and Fascism as a whole, not to my liking. Neither as an ideology, nor what was made of it once in power - especially not the latter. I'm more of a 'live and let live' kinda guy, war and genocide aren't my things either. I laugh at good Hitler parodies like anyone, which I find is an appropriate means to deal with it.
Would I have lived in the 30s and/or 40s, would I have been in any sort of Resistance? Probably not. I'd have kept my head down low.
Do I think, that Sai would land in a work camp for his constant simping for it, if in a similar situation? To be honest, I don't really care. Were we in that situation, I'd have slightly different things to worry about.
by Observation Post 13 » Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:43 am
by Countesia » Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:55 am
Saiwania wrote:Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:As a long term unproductive work shy moocher, you would probably be in a forced labour camp.
Hitler himself was unemployed in Vienna for a time. So was Himmler after failure of Beer Hall Putsch. Helping a Fourth Reich get into power should count for something. I don't expect to be expendable right away, unless I'm meeting Ernst Rohm's fate. But I'd just read the room and submit and get out of the way of the big boss before it reaches that point.
by Ascovo » Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:01 am
The Great Nevada Overlord wrote:I have seen posts about furries, communists, monarchists, democrats, even evolution.
But never about the villain of history.
I do know that I will be bombarded if I don't include a good opinion in the OP so here we go.
To me, fascism is an abhorrent thing. It's comprised of many parts so lets lay them out and break them down.
•Social Darwinism
•Eugenics
•Nationalism
•Militarism
•Psychopathic And Sociopathic Behavior
•Obsession With Order
Starting with Social Darwinism, I believe that it is nothing more than fash gibberish. The belief that one human is worth more or is smarter than others because of race is nonsensical.
Eugenics is the belief that killing a part of the population to induce survival of the fittest is good. Some people that are the targets of eugenics are, mentally unstable/handicapped folks, Jewish people, Africans, Chinese, so on so forth. Basically it's just racism + ableism. Obviously it makes no sense.
I'll combine these two into one because of how much they depend on each other. Nationalism isn't bad if contained. The people of your nation have to care about it, if they don't your state means nothing, but too much nationaliam is bad. That's where militarism come in to play. Now many modern militaristic societies exist today, mainly the USA. But it isn't good to just invade nations for the fun of it.
Now this one might sound a bit out there, but fascism has many psychopathic and sociopathic traits, mainly the disregard of other humans lives and their own self obsessions. Adolf Hitler cared only about his reputation, nothing else. He killed his dogs thinking that the Soviets were going to put them up on display, and ofcourse he can't have that! He also caused the death of 6 million people in the holocaust. Lest we forget.
Fascism only cares about one thing, order. And order alone. Death is wrought down upon thee if thy dare stand up to thine own state.
This was a long rant, but I applaud you for reading it all.
Now please start you own talk on the matter, but also keep it civil!
by Observation Post 13 » Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:03 am
Scinan wrote:It's easy to vilify fascism for what it has done, associating it closely with the specific crimes which particularly infamous fascist regimes have committed (often, particularly following the fall of the Nazi party in Germany, while pretending to be anything other than fascist). I will here take the controversial stance, if only for the sake of argument, the fascism is not inherently bound to ideas like social darwinism, eugenics or any particular obsession which the 'beloved leader' of such a regime might promote as a necessity for the well-being of their nation.
Rather, I would prefer to focus on the idea of fascism as promoting the idea of the State as a cult. At the root of fascist ideology is the idea that there is something sacred about ones homeland, ones ethnicity, ones culture, that is to be held inviolate and pure against all which might otherwise inflect their development. Something which must be protected and cultivated even at the expense of individual members of the society in question.
At its heart fascism promotes the state as synonymous with divinity; It is an ideology of promised lands and greater goods which inevitably attracts and promotes charismatic narcissists who identify themselves with that sacred ideal and are wholly willing to burn other people's lives wholesale so long as it makes them feel that they are living in a better world. Which, dwelling in the upper class of the society they have hijacked, they invariably will until the whole thing collapses around their brittle, overinflated egos.
As such it is no surprise at all that fascist regimes inevitably adopt violent, militaristic outlooks to protect themselves from outside interference and to grasp at more. It is no surprise at all when they adopt ideas like eugenics or develop obsessions with 'order'. Such systemic obsessions are a natural product of totalitarian faith placed in singular figures elevated to living godhood; Whether or not they are clearly identified as such or adopt more humble rhetoric for themselves, when one persons will dictates the course of millions of lives so too will their obsessions and pathologies.
Unfortunately for the future of our species, much as democracy, capitalism and communism alike, fascism is also a natural and inevitable outgrowth of human psychology. It emanates from our own tendencies towards tribalism and the desire to protect ones own kin. Like all extremist ideology it hijacks and hyperbolises our own better instincts against us, slaughtering humanity on the altar of humanity. It is not something that can simply be rooted out and destroyed without destroying the very same part of ourselves which allows us to identify and fight against it; The desire to protect ourselves and others from that which threatens us.
We can only recognize it for what it is; Fear writ large. Fear of the other. Fear of loss. Fear of deprivation, twisted into endless, rapacious hunger. We must learn to see the humanity in those who seek to practice such things and know them for what they are. They are not merely the convenient villains of history. They are not in themselves outgrowths of some mysterious, ontological evil living beyond us. The devil did not make them do it; They did it all themselves. For those they loved they burned those they despised.
They are people, wounded, afraid and enraged. Rightly or wrongly, they believe themselves endangered and react as humans inevitably react when threatened. How else do we imagine they manage to collaborate with one another, if not through finding kinship in shared terror and shared hatred of what which terrifies them? If we do not want them to trend towards fascism, we must be prepared to find ways to address and calm their fears, hurts and hatreds. Fascism is a memetic pathogen which spreads like a plague through the idea of the family, the community, the state. It can only truly be defeated on the same ground, before it blooms into concentration camps and mass graves.
Until then the next fascistic genocide is an inevitable byproduct of our own collective failures to see each other as human.
by Melrovia » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:38 am
by The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:45 am
Observation Post 13 wrote:Scinan wrote:It's easy to vilify fascism for what it has done, associating it closely with the specific crimes which particularly infamous fascist regimes have committed (often, particularly following the fall of the Nazi party in Germany, while pretending to be anything other than fascist). I will here take the controversial stance, if only for the sake of argument, the fascism is not inherently bound to ideas like social darwinism, eugenics or any particular obsession which the 'beloved leader' of such a regime might promote as a necessity for the well-being of their nation.
Rather, I would prefer to focus on the idea of fascism as promoting the idea of the State as a cult. At the root of fascist ideology is the idea that there is something sacred about ones homeland, ones ethnicity, ones culture, that is to be held inviolate and pure against all which might otherwise inflect their development. Something which must be protected and cultivated even at the expense of individual members of the society in question.
At its heart fascism promotes the state as synonymous with divinity; It is an ideology of promised lands and greater goods which inevitably attracts and promotes charismatic narcissists who identify themselves with that sacred ideal and are wholly willing to burn other people's lives wholesale so long as it makes them feel that they are living in a better world. Which, dwelling in the upper class of the society they have hijacked, they invariably will until the whole thing collapses around their brittle, overinflated egos.
As such it is no surprise at all that fascist regimes inevitably adopt violent, militaristic outlooks to protect themselves from outside interference and to grasp at more. It is no surprise at all when they adopt ideas like eugenics or develop obsessions with 'order'. Such systemic obsessions are a natural product of totalitarian faith placed in singular figures elevated to living godhood; Whether or not they are clearly identified as such or adopt more humble rhetoric for themselves, when one persons will dictates the course of millions of lives so too will their obsessions and pathologies.
Unfortunately for the future of our species, much as democracy, capitalism and communism alike, fascism is also a natural and inevitable outgrowth of human psychology. It emanates from our own tendencies towards tribalism and the desire to protect ones own kin. Like all extremist ideology it hijacks and hyperbolises our own better instincts against us, slaughtering humanity on the altar of humanity. It is not something that can simply be rooted out and destroyed without destroying the very same part of ourselves which allows us to identify and fight against it; The desire to protect ourselves and others from that which threatens us.
We can only recognize it for what it is; Fear writ large. Fear of the other. Fear of loss. Fear of deprivation, twisted into endless, rapacious hunger. We must learn to see the humanity in those who seek to practice such things and know them for what they are. They are not merely the convenient villains of history. They are not in themselves outgrowths of some mysterious, ontological evil living beyond us. The devil did not make them do it; They did it all themselves. For those they loved they burned those they despised.
They are people, wounded, afraid and enraged. Rightly or wrongly, they believe themselves endangered and react as humans inevitably react when threatened. How else do we imagine they manage to collaborate with one another, if not through finding kinship in shared terror and shared hatred of what which terrifies them? If we do not want them to trend towards fascism, we must be prepared to find ways to address and calm their fears, hurts and hatreds. Fascism is a memetic pathogen which spreads like a plague through the idea of the family, the community, the state. It can only truly be defeated on the same ground, before it blooms into concentration camps and mass graves.
Until then the next fascistic genocide is an inevitable byproduct of our own collective failures to see each other as human.
While certain psychological tendencies, such as tribalism and the desire to protect one's own kin, may be exploited by fascist ideology, fascism is not an inevitable outgrowth of human psychology.
There are many factors that contribute to the rise and appeal of fascist ideologies, including social, political, and economic conditions. It is important to recognize that fascism is not an inherent aspect of human nature, but rather a product of particular historical and cultural contexts. I think that arguing fascism as an inevitable outgrowth of human psychology is dangerous and could potentially be used as justification for wrongdoings brought upon through the adoption of fascism.
by Mountains and Volcanoes » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:15 pm
Well... it does argue in bad faith (and amplified by idiots, which give rise to terrible militias!)The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:they never claimed fascism is an “inherent aspect” of human thought, but rather that it is the logical extension of nationalism and greed that humans often fall into. exterior conditions are simply the catalyst.Observation Post 13 wrote:While certain psychological tendencies, such as tribalism and the desire to protect one's own kin, may be exploited by fascist ideology, fascism is not an inevitable outgrowth of human psychology.
There are many factors that contribute to the rise and appeal of fascist ideologies, including social, political, and economic conditions. It is important to recognize that fascism is not an inherent aspect of human nature, but rather a product of particular historical and cultural contexts. I think that arguing fascism as an inevitable outgrowth of human psychology is dangerous and could potentially be used as justification for wrongdoings brought upon through the adoption of fascism.
by The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:23 pm
Mountains and Volcanoes wrote:Well... it does argue in bad faith (and amplified by idiots, which give rise to terrible militias!)The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:they never claimed fascism is an “inherent aspect” of human thought, but rather that it is the logical extension of nationalism and greed that humans often fall into. exterior conditions are simply the catalyst.
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