Should someone without a disability play one in film/tv?

[HISPIDA]

People in films go to the toilet much less regularly than people in real life but we're comfortable with that. I think so, anyway, I don't claim to speak for everyone.

I object.

overruled.

[Ifreann]

What does "get to complain" mean? Obviously anyone can complain about anything.

I meant "complain" as in "complain and have their opinion necessarily taken into account".

Taken into account by whom? Usually by the time the general public is forming opinions about an actor's performance it's too late for the role to be recast.

Clearly the same as being blind.

What does the blindness of an actor add to the portrayal of a blind character?
What does the criminality of an actor add to the portrayal of a criminal character?
What does the intelligence of an actor add to the portrayal of an intelligent character?
It's fiction anyway. It's not a documentary.

Ah, so what we imagine is some manner of absolute meritocracy. The role goes to the best actor who auditions and that's that.

[Ifreann]

Seems to me that the opinions that matter here are those of the members of the community being portrayed.

So just hypothetically speaking, would you extend this logic to a situation where a movie was being made about a white European character from history being race-swapped?

When Americans play Irish characters, whose opinion do you think ought to carry more weight on the quality of their Irish accent? On the realism of their dialogue? Mine, or that of an American?

Fundamentally I think that attitudes like this have been handicapping entertainment for years and years. Brendon Fraser recently portrayed a morbidly obese gay man, people loved him in the movie because he played the part well. They didn't have to seek out and find an overweight gay man to play the part because uh.... actors do this thing to entertain us, it's called acting.

You must come from opposite land, where the film industry has a long history of studiously consulting with and casting from the groups being portrayed on film. Like, do you think that Hollywood has never before had a straight actor play a gay character?

[Nilokeras]

Probably no, and for the same reason Scarlett Johansson shouldn't play a Japanese person - they're taking a role that could have been played by someone actually of that experience or background, but didn't because of the perceived unmarketability of PoCs/disabled actors.

[San Lumen]

Probably no, and for the same reason Scarlett Johansson shouldn't play a Japanese person - they're taking a role that could have been played by someone actually of that experience or background, but didn't because of the perceived unmarketability of PoCs/disabled actors.

How many actors out there actually have ALS or other disabilities?

What is the point of acting if you can’t portray certain things? Should a gay actor not be able to play a straight character?

[Kerwa]

When Americans play Irish characters, whose opinion do you think ought to carry more weight on the quality of their Irish accent? On the realism of their dialogue? Mine, or that of an American?

The American, natch. Otherwise we would be deprived of comically bad impersonations in big budget productions. And I, for one, wouldn’t stand for that.

[Nilokeras]

Probably no, and for the same reason Scarlett Johansson shouldn't play a Japanese person - they're taking a role that could have been played by someone actually of that experience or background, but didn't because of the perceived unmarketability of PoCs/disabled actors.

How many actors out there actually have ALS or other disabilities?

Greater than zero, so there's really no excuse.

What is the point of acting if you can’t portray certain things? Should a gay actor not be able to play a straight character?

Because drawing from a well of lived experience when it comes to something like disability is always going to result in a better performance, especially when authenticity to a character or state of being is required. So you think Eddie Redmayne would have done a better job at portraying having ALS than someone who actually has ALS? Did Scarlett Johansson redefine being a Japanese person through her magnetic performance of Major Kusanagi?

[Zhinmja]

If someone is genuinely making such an argument I have to suspect their point is being severely misinterpreted. I am admittedly biased to a more cynical take personally on the nature of such a misinterpretation.

Of course there is nothing fundamentally morally wrong with the act of casting an actor to fulfill a role they do not fully meet the conditions of. But if the goal is to write about and uplift the struggles of disabled people then obviously disabled people should be at the forefront. No one is a better expert than they are! In fact, it is one of these things where everyone else is fundamentally incapable of being an expert on the topic. Just as well, it is a bit strange for a person you know to be fully abled try to tell you that you can do anything while faking your disability.

A lot of the excuses being typically provided here are problems which can be overcome. It's just intellectually and creatively lazy.

[Nilokeras]

Like ultimately the problem is that I can guarantee that the Hawking biopic did not even consider casting a person with ALS in the role, in the same way Ghost in the Shell did not entertain casting an Asian actor. That decision was made before they could have ever even auditioned for the role, and that's what makes the decision to have Redmayne/Johansson play those roles inappropriate.

[Ifreann]

Probably no, and for the same reason Scarlett Johansson shouldn't play a Japanese person - they're taking a role that could have been played by someone actually of that experience or background, but didn't because of the perceived unmarketability of PoCs/disabled actors.

How many actors out there actually have ALS or other disabilities?

Millions, probably.

What is the point of acting if you can’t portray certain things? Should a gay actor not be able to play a straight character?

Should a white actor not be able to portray a Black character?

---

When Americans play Irish characters, whose opinion do you think ought to carry more weight on the quality of their Irish accent? On the realism of their dialogue? Mine, or that of an American?

The American, natch. Otherwise we would be deprived of comically bad impersonations in big budget productions. And I, for one, wouldn’t stand for that.

Why would we be deprived of anything? I hope you aren't under the impression that I run Hollywood.

[Zhinmja]

Millions, probably.

The fate of this remark is a barrage of pedantry.

[Gepanzerberg]

I think this sentiment ultimately stems from a desire to see more accurate portrayals of disabled and neurodivergent individuals in media, which I feel is valid. Representation in media is important and, especially as a neurodivergent person myself, I think we should strive for both more accurate portrayals of disabled individuals and support for actors with disabilities. I obviously think that people with disabilities should be able to play characters with those same disabilities, but as long as the abled actor portrays the character and their disability faithfully, I feel it's alright.

Like ultimately the problem is that I can guarantee that the Hawking biopic did not even consider casting a person with ALS in the role, in the same way Ghost in the Shell did not entertain casting an Asian actor. That decision was made before they could have ever even auditioned for the role, and that's what makes the decision to have Redmayne/Johansson play those roles inappropriate.

Agreed. I feel the issue (at it's core) is about whether or not individuals have the opportunity for roles, not the "right" to them.

[El Lazaro]

Why would you automatically assume that any portrayal of a character is meant to be as realistic as it can?

People in films go to the toilet much less regularly than people in real life but we're comfortable with that. I think so, anyway, I don't claim to speak for everyone.

The Matrix was ok, but the lack of excretory lore really limited the world-building. Are the poop chutes gravity or suction based? When you crap in the Matrix, do you crap in real life? How would the sanitation/nutrition system shape the evolution of humans and microbial cultures?

I haven’t watched the The Matrix Revolutions, but I’ve heard some say it’s a shit movie, so it’s possible that my questions have already been answered. Nonetheless, “science” fiction movies ought to have much more realism going forward.

[JohnGaltia]

Absolutely. Only retarded people should portray retards. For example, movies like Forrest Gump and Rain Man should only exist if they can find actual retards that can learn the lines. As a matter of fact acting should not even exist as an artform any longer. It is far too offensive. Every part in every production should employ a person whos actual life experience and racial characteristics mirror that of the character in question. Therefore no "acting" is required. They will simply memorize the lines and recite them back.

[The Two Jerseys]

Only actual Kryptonians should play Superman.

[Rusozak]

I think what I was trying to say got lost in the "blackface vs whiteface" argument. The point I was trying to make is that blackface is not comparable to an actor portraying a disability because there is a historical context that makes blackface much much worse. Not to mention instances of blackface are almost always caricaturized.

[The Black Forrest]

Im sure Charlie Cox has a stunt double for some things.

But blackface is unacceptable. Is there a consistent principle underlying these seemingly contradictory beliefs?

Are people still using black face for Othello?

[The Black Forrest]

No, but there needs to be some sensitivity for it. For example Genghis Kahn shouldn't say "Pilgrim"

Hey now; they paid for their crimes.

Something like 50 people got cancer and died from being on that film.

[Christian Confederation]

As someone with Autism I don't care if they make a movie about an Autistic Caracter I just care that it's accurate and not just Stereotypes.

[Thermodolia]

Acting is the ability to portray something you are not.

The fact a person represents a particular culture or disabled is irrelevant. Such a person might be factual and yet be a horrid actor.

Like all those guys who played themselves in The 15:17 to Paris or the guys in Act of Valor. Horrible acting choice there.

[Ifreann]

I think what I was trying to say got lost in the "blackface vs whiteface" argument. The point I was trying to make is that blackface is not comparable to an actor portraying a disability because there is a historical context that makes blackface much much worse. Not to mention instances of blackface are almost always caricaturized.

But the whole point of acting, we are being told, is for the actor to be something that they are not. If we won't allow white actors to portray Black characters then we've already thrown out the whole point of acting. Acting is pointless now! The wokes have cancelled acting!


Or. Maybe. Maybe acting is just about portraying a character, and having greater diversity in who gets to do that would not actually ruin everything forever.

[San Lumen]

I think what I was trying to say got lost in the "blackface vs whiteface" argument. The point I was trying to make is that blackface is not comparable to an actor portraying a disability because there is a historical context that makes blackface much much worse. Not to mention instances of blackface are almost always caricaturized.

But the whole point of acting, we are being told, is for the actor to be something that they are not. If we won't allow white actors to portray Black characters then we've already thrown out the whole point of acting. Acting is pointless now! The wokes have cancelled acting!


Or. Maybe. Maybe acting is just about portraying a character, and having greater diversity in who gets to do that would not actually ruin everything forever.

no one is calling for white actors to play black characters. It would be totally unacceptable and disrespectful to her memory for a white woman to play Whitney Houston in the upcoming biopic.

I don't want diversity for the sake of it. Whoever has the best audition should get the part.

[Aliceus D Panzerkampfwagyu esq]

You know what'd be the most optimal solution to the topic? Make a movie, but cast every character as wrong as possible.
The character that in the story is supposed to be a blond, blue eyed, light skinned guy who has a superpower that lets him see everything? Establish all these facts inside the movie, yet cast him as with a blind female actor with the darkest skin color you can find and have noone acknowledge that fact but pretend there is nothing weird about it and have every character pretend like the actor is completely that description despite no visual trickery being used to make it comprehensible to the poor viewer.

Then do the same for all other characters, yet have people who are normal appear and then act like these characters aren't in any way weird in order to establish that this isn't just trickery with words being switched around.

And at no point try to solve this problem by claiming it was all an elaborate curse that altered perception, just a lot of people who clearly are the opposite of their role.

Also: Instead of worrying about offending X group, try offending every last group there is at the same time, that way, your work isn't discriminatory against Group X, it's Discriminatory against every group of the alphabet and other writing systems, that way, it's just misanthropic.

[Ifreann]

But the whole point of acting, we are being told, is for the actor to be something that they are not. If we won't allow white actors to portray Black characters then we've already thrown out the whole point of acting. Acting is pointless now! The wokes have cancelled acting!


Or. Maybe. Maybe acting is just about portraying a character, and having greater diversity in who gets to do that would not actually ruin everything forever.

no one is calling for white actors to play black characters.

Nobody is calling for abled actors to be banned from playing disabled characters.

It would be totally unacceptable and disrespectful to her memory for a white woman to play Whitney Houston in the upcoming biopic.

If the whole point of acting is to be something you are not, and you did say exactly that, then there would be nothing wrong with a white actor playing a Black woman, because that is something they are not.

I don't want diversity for the sake of it. Whoever has the best audition should get the part.

What if a white actor has the best audition for Whitney Houston? That would be totally unacceptable and disrespectful to her memory. So you don't actually believe in meritocracy. Maybe don't tell lies that are disproven by that very same post.

[San Lumen]

no one is calling for white actors to play black characters.

Nobody is calling for abled actors to be banned from playing disabled characters.

It would be totally unacceptable and disrespectful to her memory for a white woman to play Whitney Houston in the upcoming biopic.

If the whole point of acting is to be something you are not, and you did say exactly that, then there would be nothing wrong with a white actor playing a Black woman, because that is something they are not.

I don't want diversity for the sake of it. Whoever has the best audition should get the part.

What if a white actor has the best audition for Whitney Houston? That would be totally unacceptable and disrespectful to her memory. So you don't actually believe in meritocracy. Maybe don't tell lies that are disproven by that very same post.

No white woman would audition for the role of Whitney Houston. They'd be laughed out of the room.