I would have if you hadn't decided to write my arguments for me, without having the slightest clue as to how I would respond yet believing you did all the same.
Arrogance is never a good look.
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by Sordhau » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:01 pm
by Kalivyah » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:02 pm
by Imperial State » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:03 pm
by Sordhau » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:04 pm
by Informed Consent » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:17 pm
Xerographica wrote:A long time ago i lived in china for half a year. i ate a wide variety of very delicious and affordable street food nearly everyday and didn't get food poisoning once.
regulation has 3 main results
1. decrease the variety and quality of food
2. increase the price of food
3. decrease employment options
everybody gets screwed. poorer people get especially screwed.
you have this idea that legislators are magically enlightened enough to correctly weigh the costs and benefits of regulation for you, me and every other unique individual in society. this idea is the most harmful idea ever.
you want to voluntarily contribute to a non-profit organization that certifies participating food companies as meeting a high standard of cleanliness? fine, no problem. if you're concerned about the problem of free-riding, fine, it's a reasonable concern, therefore taxes. but it is entirely not fine if you think it's a good idea for somebody who doesn't even know my favorite fruit to decide how my taxes should be spent.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:07 pm
by Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:32 pm
Xerographica wrote:didn't get food poisoning once.
George Orwell wrote:Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.
by Kalivyah » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:36 pm
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:smh the first reaction to a return of xero's ideas should be "Lord in Heaven they're back"
by Kalivyah » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:37 pm
by Samicana » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:46 pm
by Samicana » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:48 pm
Imperial State wrote:Political democracy, but all the parties are a type of socialism, and the representation of capitalism and discriminatory ideology in government made illegal.
Make it so things that are anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, and anti-discriminatory. Oh, and also, no police state, please.
by Dumb Ideologies » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:51 pm
Xerographica wrote:The Black Forrest wrote:Oh no.
Sorry. I like food being safe. I have had food poisoning and it’s not worth waiting for the “free market” getting around to correcting it.
A long time ago i lived in china for half a year. i ate a wide variety of very delicious and affordable street food nearly everyday and didn't get food poisoning once.
regulation has 3 main results
1. decrease the variety and quality of food
2. increase the price of food
3. decrease employment options
everybody gets screwed. poorer people get especially screwed.
you have this idea that legislators are magically enlightened enough to correctly weigh the costs and benefits of regulation for you, me and every other unique individual in society. this idea is the most harmful idea ever.
you want to voluntarily contribute to a non-profit organization that certifies participating food companies as meeting a high standard of cleanliness? fine, no problem. if you're concerned about the problem of free-riding, fine, it's a reasonable concern, therefore taxes. but it is entirely not fine if you think it's a good idea for somebody who doesn't even know my favorite fruit to decide how my taxes should be spent.
by Kalivyah » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:53 pm
Samicana wrote:Imperial State wrote:Political democracy, but all the parties are a type of socialism, and the representation of capitalism and discriminatory ideology in government made illegal.
Make it so things that are anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, and anti-discriminatory. Oh, and also, no police state, please.
So you want a society free from a police state but you'll ban capitalist parties?
by Kalivyah » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:54 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Xerographica wrote:A long time ago i lived in china for half a year. i ate a wide variety of very delicious and affordable street food nearly everyday and didn't get food poisoning once.
regulation has 3 main results
1. decrease the variety and quality of food
2. increase the price of food
3. decrease employment options
everybody gets screwed. poorer people get especially screwed.
you have this idea that legislators are magically enlightened enough to correctly weigh the costs and benefits of regulation for you, me and every other unique individual in society. this idea is the most harmful idea ever.
you want to voluntarily contribute to a non-profit organization that certifies participating food companies as meeting a high standard of cleanliness? fine, no problem. if you're concerned about the problem of free-riding, fine, it's a reasonable concern, therefore taxes. but it is entirely not fine if you think it's a good idea for somebody who doesn't even know my favorite fruit to decide how my taxes should be spent.
Rather than regulate, the government should enable people to signal their disapproval of venues that give them food poisoning. Perhaps by smearing their bloody liquid faeces over the walls.
by American Legionaries » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:00 pm
Imperial State wrote:Political democracy, but all the parties are a type of socialism, and the representation of capitalism and discriminatory ideology in government made illegal.
Make it so things that are anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, and anti-discriminatory. Oh, and also, no police state, please.
by Imperial State » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:24 pm
Samicana wrote:Imperial State wrote:Political democracy, but all the parties are a type of socialism, and the representation of capitalism and discriminatory ideology in government made illegal.
Make it so things that are anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, and anti-discriminatory. Oh, and also, no police state, please.
So you want a society free from a police state but you'll ban capitalist parties?
by Difinbelk » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:30 pm
Gravlen wrote:So if I murder someone, I should face no consequences if the police shows up after I'm done with my violent act? Neat.
Elwher wrote:Military to defend against outside violence;
Police to defend against inside violence;
Civil Courts to defend against fraud and enforce freely entered-into contracts
Major-Tom wrote:You've stood on so many soapboxes on this forum, you may as well be covered in suds.
by Big Bad Blue » Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:40 pm
by Based Illinois » Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:21 pm
by Narland » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:47 pm
Elwher wrote:What, in your ideal state, would the government do? I'll start with mine.
Military to defend against outside violence;
Police to defend against inside violence;
Civil Courts to defend against fraud and enforce freely entered-into contracts
Beyond that, no coercive functions. For example, food inspections should not be mandatory BUT if not inspected, they must be clearly labeled as such so people can make their choice as an educated consumer. If not labeled or if mislabeled, see function 3 above.
by Zerotaxia » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:02 pm
Elwher wrote:What, in your ideal state, would the government do? I'll start with mine.
Military to defend against outside violence;
Elwher wrote:Civil Courts to defend against fraud and enforce freely entered-into contracts
Elwher wrote:Police to defend against inside violence;
Rusozak wrote:Looks like we're doing the thing again where libertarians act like "wash your hands" signs are tyranny. Just read The Jungle. Libertarians want to take us back to the god damn gilded age I swear. What's next, children have a right to work in coal mines?
Sordhau wrote:The ideal government is one that is democratic, republican, decentralized, and stateless. If it is lacking in any one of these qualities it is either an unfair or oppressive system - but usually both.
"Democratic" in the sense that any and all officials are chosen by the general public; specifically by those who they will be working for and with. Candidates will be selected from among their communities by said community. There will not be annual elections - rather the public will have the power to call an election at any time for any reason to replace an official they deem to be grossly inadequate for their position, so long as there is a majority popular support for the election to be held. Offices will have only the powers delegated to them by the public, nothing more. In this way the people choose whom they please, when they please, with as much authority and power as they deem appropriate.
"Republican" in the sense that the nature of government is a public affair. The government will not be permitted to keep secrets from the public; the transfer of resources, any and all votes, and all instances of internal political discussion cannot occur behind closed doors. No secrets, no lies, no privilege. Officials will live among the population, will not have official security, and their proceedings will not be closed to the public either for viewership or attendance.
"Decentralized" in the sense that government power begins at the bottom and dilutes at the top. The further up the chain of bureaucracy you go, the less authority they have. As such immediate problems requiring immediate solutions will be addressed immediately at the local level.
"Stateless" in the sense that the government shall not have any sort of capability to enforce it's decisions, ensuring that unpopular measures cannot be implemented against the express will of the population. No law enforcement,no armed forces. If need be the government can organize a purely volunteer militias in times of need for an armed force whose express purpose shall be to address the emergency it was created for and, once that emergency has abated, will be dissolved thereafter.
Sordhau wrote:To prevent rampant abuse of this system currency, class, and private property will also have to be abolished (surprise, it's Communism!) lest the market, hierarchy, or privilege be used to the advantage of villains seeking to subvert the system and establish tyranny or inequality.
Kalivyah wrote:law enforcement, while certainly shit today is an absolutely necessary force for a society. society will never be perfect and there will always be crime, regardless of the economic or political system... so to suggest that law enforcement all-together, in any form should be abolished is stupid...
Old Tyrannia wrote:The purpose of the State is to produce and maintain an environment conducive to the pursuit of virtue. Providing its citizens with a degree of stability and security should be the primary objective of government, whether that means offering protection to the peasantry so that they needn't fear having their farms burned and crops seized by marauding raiders or, in more modern times, ensuring the availability of essential necessities such as food, fuel and medical care to all the members of society.
Elwher wrote:Person A has something, Person B is stronger, wants it, and takes it. Without some policing, how does Person A get his property back?
by The Angel of Thursday » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:05 pm
by Picairn » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:39 pm
Zerotaxia wrote:If I had a country, vigilante justice would be fully legal. So A could either confront B himself, or contract C to do it for him. C could be anyone from a friend to a whole mercenary army. Such is the magic of the market.
by Zerotaxia » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:03 pm
Picairn wrote:Zerotaxia wrote:If I had a country, vigilante justice would be fully legal. So A could either confront B himself, or contract C to do it for him. C could be anyone from a friend to a whole mercenary army. Such is the magic of the market.
This is a perfect recipe for a failed state - PMCs running around killing each other for their masters' will.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:24 pm
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