What qualifies as "left wing"?

[Erynia and Draconia]

I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

You can never tell with NSG.

[Technoscience Leftwing]

I have chosen the following:
* Social Democracy
* Market Socialism / other non-"full communist" socialism
* Anarchism
* Full Communism / Marxism
These concepts advocate the protection of the poor from the intrigues of the ruling class (from capitalist monopolies and from state dignitaries).

Well, I didn't include others. Fascism does not serve the people, but the magnates of capital like Krupp and Thyssen, so this is an ultra-right ideology. Liberalism is left only in comparison with fascism, and in itself it preaches competition with the ruin of the weakest, at least in Russia, right-wing liberalism during the "shock therapy" of the 1990s was just that. Stalinism clogs the left ideology with right-wing remnants (great-power chauvinism, xenophobia, patriarchy). Libertarianism preaches competition with the survival of the fittest, and does not even try to take into account the interests of the majority of the poor who lost in the competition (unlike leftist anarchism).

Leftism is not an illusion, it is simply multi-vector. It is a commitment to social protection, internationalism, secularism, technological progress, revolution and emancipation.

[El Lazaro]

Leftism is not an illusion, it is simply multi-vector. It is a commitment to social protection, internationalism, secularism, technological progress, revolution and emancipation.

Since this is pretty much your sig copy and pasted, does “secularism” mean targeting clergy with state terror campaigns?

[Sordhau]

I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

Liberals will do everything in their power to hamfistedly draw a connection between Fascism and the Left that doesn't exist just so say they can justify subscribing to the asinine horseshoe theory which has long since been dismissed by credible political scientists. Just another example of them projecting their long and storied history of Fascist collaboration onto the Left.

[Shermania]

I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

Liberals will do everything in their power to hamfistedly draw a connection between Fascism and the Left that doesn't exist just so say they can justify subscribing to the asinine horseshoe theory which has long since been dismissed by credible political scientists. Just another example of them projecting their long and storied history of Fascist collaboration onto the Left.

Still not as hamfisted as your use of the term "liberal."

[Technoscience Leftwing]

Leftism is not an illusion, it is simply multi-vector. It is a commitment to social protection, internationalism, secularism, technological progress, revolution and emancipation.

Since this is pretty much your sig copy and pasted, does “secularism” mean targeting clergy with state terror campaigns?

The clergy led a terrorist policy against dissidents for 800 years, creating the Inquisition for this. Because it knew perfectly well that the class struggle was hidden under the religious shell. The fighters on the other side of the barricades also knew this - the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks, who drowned priests in barges and replaced church holidays with "festivals of reason" or anti-clerical demonstrations. However, the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks fought only against the churchmen as hired agitators of the ruling classes - and not against the personal faith of the citizens, which, under a secular state, was declared a private matter.

[The H Corporation]

I consider the whole political spectrum divided into what it is political and economical, left-wing politically feels more "democratic" and more lenient to human rights and freedoms of the individual and if you go farther I feel like there would be people who are more anarchist in terms of the individual freedoms of a person, while right-wing goes into what it is authoritarian

Summary: Left is freedom of the individual and Right is more authoritarian

And in the economic spectrum, you can be Left by supporting a more state-controlled economy, and being Right would be the opposite, which is free-market or something.

That is what I think because the definition of "Being Left" is vague and everyone points fingers at communism and socialism when you can also be a capitalist and love individual freedoms, like the ancaps. Of course, that is just my opinion, feel free to disagree

[Sordhau]

Since this is pretty much your sig copy and pasted, does “secularism” mean targeting clergy with state terror campaigns?

The clergy led a terrorist policy against dissidents for 800 years, creating the Inquisition for this. Because it knew perfectly well that the class struggle was hidden under the religious shell. The fighters on the other side of the barricades also knew this - the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks, who drowned priests in barges and replaced church holidays with "festivals of reason" or anti-clerical demonstrations. However, the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks fought only against the churchmen as hired agitators of the ruling classes - and not against the personal faith of the citizens, which, under a secular state, was declared a private matter.

It isn't a private matter when you're fucking shooting priests and demolishing churches.

The church might not have done itself any favors by aligning with oppressive states, but liquidizing the clergy while seizing temples to turn into ammunition dumps is a disproportionate reaction.

[El Lazaro]

Since this is pretty much your sig copy and pasted, does “secularism” mean targeting clergy with state terror campaigns?

The clergy led a terrorist policy against dissidents for 800 years, creating the Inquisition for this. Because it knew perfectly well that the class struggle was hidden under the religious shell. The fighters on the other side of the barricades also knew this - the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks, who drowned priests in barges and replaced church holidays with "festivals of reason" or anti-clerical demonstrations. However, the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks fought only against the churchmen as hired agitators of the ruling classes - and not against the personal faith of the citizens, which, under a secular state, was declared a private matter.

Tl;dr slaughtering churchgoers is actually a morally upright position because minority groups are secretly the enemies of the people.

[Rusticus I Damianus]

looks at results of poll



Seems that my campaign is working.

[Diarcesia]

I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

Liberals will do everything in their power to hamfistedly draw a connection between Fascism and the Left that doesn't exist just so say they can justify subscribing to the asinine horseshoe theory which has long since been dismissed by credible political scientists. Just another example of them projecting their long and storied history of Fascist collaboration onto the Left.

That's news to me, those who say fascism is "left-wing" are almost always the far-right types.

[Vistulange]

Liberals will do everything in their power to hamfistedly draw a connection between Fascism and the Left that doesn't exist just so say they can justify subscribing to the asinine horseshoe theory which has long since been dismissed by credible political scientists. Just another example of them projecting their long and storied history of Fascist collaboration onto the Left.

That's news to me, those who say fascism is "left-wing" are almost always the far-right types.

According to Jenny, "liberals" are "far-right". Anybody who doesn't subscribe to her brand of leftism is some sort of class traitor, social fascist, fascist, or all of the above.

[Free Algerstonia]

leftism means you want to subject the world to big pharma covid 19 vaccine slavery and paint everything rainbow

[El Lazaro]

That's news to me, those who say fascism is "left-wing" are almost always the far-right types.

According to Jenny, "liberals" are "far-right". Anybody who doesn't subscribe to her brand of leftism is some sort of class traitor, social fascist, fascist, or all of the above.

Ancom-fascism is the real horseshoe theory

[Rusticus I Damianus]

Liberals will do everything in their power to hamfistedly draw a connection between Fascism and the Left that doesn't exist just so say they can justify subscribing to the asinine horseshoe theory which has long since been dismissed by credible political scientists. Just another example of them projecting their long and storied history of Fascist collaboration onto the Left.

That's news to me, those who say fascism is "left-wing" are almost always the far-right types.

I'm Ancap, I did my research and came to the conclusion that Fascism is nothing more then Italian Socialism that focuses on Nationality. Likewise Nazism is just another brand of Socialism that focuses on race, is anti semetic and has a whole bat crap crazy pagan religion bullcrap thrown in as well. At which point, I can just list them off as branches of the broader tree of Socialism, say that whole entire tree is bad, and say that I don't want anything to do with any of it.

Reject Socialism and all it's forms, embrace Liberty.

[Diarcesia]

That's news to me, those who say fascism is "left-wing" are almost always the far-right types.

I'm Ancap, I did my research and came to the conclusion that Fascism is nothing more then Italian Socialism that focuses on Nationality. Likewise Nazism is just another brand of Socialism that focuses on race, is anti semetic and has a whole bat crap crazy pagan religion bullcrap thrown in as well. At which point, I can just list them off as branches of the broader tree of Socialism, say that whole entire tree is bad, and say that I don't want anything to do with any of it.

Reject Socialism and all it's forms, embrace Liberty.

So... is state capitalism considered left-wing to you?

[Rusticus I Damianus]

I'm Ancap, I did my research and came to the conclusion that Fascism is nothing more then Italian Socialism that focuses on Nationality. Likewise Nazism is just another brand of Socialism that focuses on race, is anti semetic and has a whole bat crap crazy pagan religion bullcrap thrown in as well. At which point, I can just list them off as branches of the broader tree of Socialism, say that whole entire tree is bad, and say that I don't want anything to do with any of it.

Reject Socialism and all it's forms, embrace Liberty.

So... is state capitalism considered left-wing to you?

Public = Left Wing, Private = Right Wing.

So yes. And I'm ancap, so I'm against it on account of the whole "state" thing.

[Pasong Tirad]

When you're seated on the left side of the king.

[Pangurstan]

I really hope the people who answered "fascism" are joking.

Liberals will do everything in their power to hamfistedly draw a connection between Fascism and the Left that doesn't exist just so say they can justify subscribing to the asinine horseshoe theory which has long since been dismissed by credible political scientists. Just another example of them projecting their long and storied history of Fascist collaboration onto the Left.

communists and fascists are equally liberal

[Rusticus I Damianus]

What qualifies as Left Wing?

When the wing is on the left side of the bird, bug, bat, aircraft, etc.

[Diarcesia]

What qualifies as Left Wing?

When the wing is on the left side of the bird, bug, bat, aircraft, etc.

It literally originated on that, in France, like what Pasong Tirad said.

[Technoscience Leftwing]

The clergy led a terrorist policy against dissidents for 800 years, creating the Inquisition for this. Because it knew perfectly well that the class struggle was hidden under the religious shell. The fighters on the other side of the barricades also knew this - the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks, who drowned priests in barges and replaced church holidays with "festivals of reason" or anti-clerical demonstrations. However, the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks fought only against the churchmen as hired agitators of the ruling classes - and not against the personal faith of the citizens, which, under a secular state, was declared a private matter.

It isn't a private matter when you're fucking shooting priests and demolishing churches.

The church might not have done itself any favors by aligning with oppressive states, but liquidizing the clergy while seizing temples to turn into ammunition dumps is a disproportionate reaction.

In response to reproaches about a "disproportionate reaction," Lenin, I remember, joked: "how do you determine the number of necessary and superfluous blows in a fight"? However, there have been experimental tests of a more tolerable course. For example, Emperor Constantine stopped the persecution against Christians - and immediately the churchmen demanded more. Under the next emperors, they no longer demanded equality, but totalitarian domination with persecution against atheists, believers of other faiths and heretics. Perhaps this was due to the backwardness of the ancient society? But we observe the same picture in modern society: little time has passed from Gorbachev's 1988 declaration of tolerance for the church, to its claims in the 2010s for dominance, with laws against "blasphemy" and with the penetration of its education system, the army, state apparatus. That is, concessions are perceived by the clerics as a weakness, and as a pretext to demand the commanding heights of the Middle Ages. Because they believe in the absolute truth of their doctrine, and the associated mores and social orders. If we do not want these medieval orders, we have to be vigilant and intolerant of the danger of their return.

[Tangatarehua]

What qualifies as Left Wing?

When the wing is on the left side of the bird, bug, bat, aircraft, etc.

God dammit I was going to make the same joke serious and well thought out observation.

---

I'm not a gigantic fan of the left-right dichotomy because it fails to adequately differentiate between the social and economic axis.

Traditionally, in the French revolutionary era when the terms were coined, 'Left' meant anti-establishment and 'Right' meant pro-establishment, which is absolutely not the case in this day and age but from this you could still extrapolate that progressive politics will be left and conservative politics will be right.

Of course this then gets muddied by the economic axis in which economic ideologies favouring inequality (from the 'natural inequality' of centre-right politics to the 'I think people below me are sub human' of the far right) are seen to be 'right' while ideologies favouring equality (from 'equality of opportunities' on the centre-left to 'everyone's paycheck should be the same and let's all have matching haircuts too' of the far left) are seen to be 'left'.

However then you get crazy ideas like Christian Democracy/One-nation Toryism which is socially 'right' but economically 'left' or liberalism (sometimes called 'libertarianism' because Americans can't speak English) which is socially 'left' but economically 'right'.

The tl;dr is that left-right is bullshit, however usually I'll defer to the economic definition and as such would consider
'left-wing' to range from social democracy to communism.

I consider liberalism to be a centrist or even right-wing ideology because I'm not an American (and actually, most American liberals would generally be seen as centre-right by world standards anyway).

Occasionally I'll consider progressivism left-wing in lieu of a better term (e.g. when ranting about 'left-wing' Twitter lynch mobs even though I have no idea what the economic ideology of such individuals might be).

[Pangurstan]

It isn't a private matter when you're fucking shooting priests and demolishing churches.

The church might not have done itself any favors by aligning with oppressive states, but liquidizing the clergy while seizing temples to turn into ammunition dumps is a disproportionate reaction.

In response to reproaches about a "disproportionate reaction," Lenin, I remember, joked: "how do you determine the number of necessary and superfluous blows in a fight"? However, there have been experimental tests of a more tolerable course. For example, Emperor Constantine stopped the persecution against Christians - and immediately the churchmen demanded more. Under the next emperors, they no longer demanded equality, but totalitarian domination with persecution against atheists, believers of other faiths and heretics. Perhaps this was due to the backwardness of the ancient society? But we observe the same picture in modern society: little time has passed from Gorbachev's 1988 declaration of tolerance for the church, to its claims in the 2010s for dominance, with laws against "blasphemy" and with the penetration of its education system, the army, state apparatus. That is, concessions are perceived by the clerics as a weakness, and as a pretext to demand the commanding heights of the Middle Ages. Because they believe in the absolute truth of their doctrine, and the associated mores and social orders. If we do not want these medieval orders, we have to be vigilant and intolerant of the danger of their return.

Have you considered the thought that people wouldn't want a medieval social order if you could provide a better alternative?

[Shermania]

When you're seated on the left side of the king.

His left or...?