American Politics XV: Trump and '24 Already....

[American Legionaries]

here we go again with this term establishment. Who isn't establishment?

The more important question is why the fuck should we give a shit who's establishment?

People had some legitimate complaints in 2016 about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, where their main selling point was their connection to past presidents. Other "establishment" politicians aren't necessarily building their careers on who their daddy is or who they are married to. Having professional connections is not the same thing as nepotism.

No, but who the connections are is important. The anti-establishment view isn't necessarily anti nepotist. The anti-establishment view is that a person who sells themselves as connected to undesirable political figures is themselves likely to be undesirable in a similar fashion.

And given the seemingly common view that all of the current political figures are undesirable, that's likely an unavoidable black mark on anyone already involved in the present political establishment.

[New-Minneapolis]

The more important question is why the fuck should we give a shit who's establishment?

People had some legitimate complaints in 2016 about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, where their main selling point was their connection to past presidents. Other "establishment" politicians aren't necessarily building their careers on who their daddy is or who they are married to. Having professional connections is not the same thing as nepotism.

No, but who the connections are is important. The anti-establishment view isn't necessarily anti nepotist. The anti-establishment view is that a person who sells themselves as connected to undesirable political figures is themselves likely to be undesirable in a similar fashion.

And given the seemingly common view that all of the current political figures are undesirable, that's likely an unavoidable black mark on anyone already involved in the present political establishment.

Do you agree that there are a fuck of a lot of grifters on both the left and the right that distribute populist rhetoric?

[San Lumen]

here we go again with this term establishment. Who isn't establishment?

The more important question is why the fuck should we give a shit who's establishment?

People had some legitimate complaints in 2016 about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, where their main selling point was their connection to past presidents. Other "establishment" politicians aren't necessarily building their careers on who their daddy is or who they are married to. Having professional connections is not the same thing as nepotism.

because it seems to be blanket term used for just about anyone who runs for office other than a select few. Heck someone here once claimed taking money from anyone other than individuals makes one establishment or even raises money is establishment.

[Umeria]

No, but who the connections are is important. The anti-establishment view isn't necessarily anti nepotist. The anti-establishment view is that a person who sells themselves as connected to undesirable political figures is themselves likely to be undesirable in a similar fashion.

And given the seemingly common view that all of the current political figures are undesirable, that's likely an unavoidable black mark on anyone already involved in the present political establishment.

Do you agree that there are a fuck of a lot of grifters on both the left and the right that distribute populist rhetoric?

Whether or not someone's a grifter doesn't really have anything to do with how they persuade people. There are plenty of frauds with the uptight establishment air as well.

[San Lumen]

https://apnews.com/article/lawsuits-ren ... d2d9d119af

Reno mayor sues after finding tracking device on vehicle

[New-Minneapolis]

Do you agree that there are a fuck of a lot of grifters on both the left and the right that distribute populist rhetoric?

Whether or not someone's a grifter doesn't really have anything to do with how they persuade people. There are plenty of frauds with the uptight establishment air as well.

I’m not necessarily establishment shill, don’t have enough money for that. But I just cannot say “fuck the establishment at all cost” type of guy. Of course, I’m I do have a more of a defeatist when it comes to “class struggle”.

[San Lumen]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... tate-race/

Arizona Republican loses election lawsuit in secretary of state race

[Eahland]

The more important question is why the fuck should we give a shit who's establishment?

People had some legitimate complaints in 2016 about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, where their main selling point was their connection to past presidents. Other "establishment" politicians aren't necessarily building their careers on who their daddy is or who they are married to. Having professional connections is not the same thing as nepotism.

because it seems to be blanket term used for just about anyone who runs for office other than a select few. Heck someone here once claimed taking money from anyone other than individuals makes one establishment or even raises money is establishment.

That's because just about everyone who runs for office other than a select few is establishment. That's what makes it the establishment.

[New-Minneapolis]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3778786-arizona-republican-loses-election-lawsuit-in-secretary-of-state-race/

Arizona Republican loses election lawsuit in secretary of state race

Since Kari Lake referred to herself as a “bitch”, I hope that self described “bitch” gets fined for wasting the Court’s time, should be at least $2 million

[San Lumen]

because it seems to be blanket term used for just about anyone who runs for office other than a select few. Heck someone here once claimed taking money from anyone other than individuals makes one establishment or even raises money is establishment.

That's because just about everyone who runs for office other than a select few is establishment. That's what makes it the establishment.

define establishment. What makes someone establishment?

[Platoon of Peace]

He might be a fake populist, but he can form real coherent sentences.

All of this populism is just plain sickening.

He sounds like a girl, so no.

Elon Musk, confirmed femboy. But I shouldn’t insult femboys by comparing them to Elon Musk.

The hell does Musk have to do with anything?

[New-Minneapolis]

All of this populism is just plain sickening.


Elon Musk, confirmed femboy. But I shouldn’t insult femboys by comparing them to Elon Musk.

The hell does Musk have to do with anything?

We are talking about Elon Musk censoring journalists on Twitter.

[Southern Republic of Dixie]

The hell does Musk have to do with anything?

We are talking about Elon Musk censoring journalists on Twitter.

What did Elon Musk censor Journalists over?

[Spirit of Hope]

We are talking about Elon Musk censoring journalists on Twitter.

What did Elon Musk censor Journalists over?

No one is really sure. A number of journalists were banned from Twitter, supposedly because they had shared links to external ElonJet accounts, which was deemed a violation of the new doxing rule. However not all of the journalists had shared external links to ElonJet accounts and none of them appear to have been given a reason for their account suspensions.

On top of that Twitter Spaces was also temporarily down for everyone, potentially in connection with some of the banned journalists using it.

[American Legionaries]

No, but who the connections are is important. The anti-establishment view isn't necessarily anti nepotist. The anti-establishment view is that a person who sells themselves as connected to undesirable political figures is themselves likely to be undesirable in a similar fashion.

And given the seemingly common view that all of the current political figures are undesirable, that's likely an unavoidable black mark on anyone already involved in the present political establishment.

Do you agree that there are a fuck of a lot of grifters on both the left and the right that distribute populist rhetoric?

Sure, although I don't see how that's really relevant.

[Nazi Flower Power]

The more important question is why the fuck should we give a shit who's establishment?

People had some legitimate complaints in 2016 about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton, where their main selling point was their connection to past presidents. Other "establishment" politicians aren't necessarily building their careers on who their daddy is or who they are married to. Having professional connections is not the same thing as nepotism.

because it seems to be blanket term used for just about anyone who runs for office other than a select few. Heck someone here once claimed taking money from anyone other than individuals makes one establishment or even raises money is establishment.

Yes, but why should we give a shit?

Okay, so someone told you Joe Politico is an "establishment" candidate. So what? Why should you care?

[New-Minneapolis]

Do you agree that there are a fuck of a lot of grifters on both the left and the right that distribute populist rhetoric?

Sure, although I don't see how that's really relevant.

Do you think Elon Musk is a populist or pretends to be one?

[Nazi Flower Power]

Sure, although I don't see how that's really relevant.

Do you think Elon Musk is a populist or pretends to be one?

If that's what he thinks he's doing, he's really bad at it.

[New-Minneapolis]

Do you think Elon Musk is a populist or pretends to be one?

If that's what he thinks he's doing, he's really bad at it.

I disagree. I think that right wing populism is extraordinarily popular, and very effective at propaganda.

[Eahland]

The hell does Musk have to do with anything?

We are talking about Elon Musk censoring journalists on Twitter.

We were talking about DeSantis, actually. Perhaps you've confused the American Politics thread and the Elon Musk Is A Huge Whiny Baby thread.

[American Legionaries]

If that's what he thinks he's doing, he's really bad at it.

I disagree. I think that right wing populism is extraordinarily popular, and very effective at propaganda.

But you asked about Elon Musk.

[New-Minneapolis]

We are talking about Elon Musk censoring journalists on Twitter.

We were talking about DeSantis, actually. Perhaps you've confused the American Politics thread and the Elon Musk Is A Huge Whiny Baby thread.

Ook. Sorry about that. I feel very stupid now.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

We were talking about DeSantis, actually. Perhaps you've confused the American Politics thread and the Elon Musk Is A Huge Whiny Baby thread.

Ook. Sorry about that. I feel very stupid now.

Splitting hairs really... your point still stands.

• (Right wing propaganda is effective, due to using black & white emotive language & framing, plus a bit of denial)

[Forsher]

because it seems to be blanket term used for just about anyone who runs for office other than a select few. Heck someone here once claimed taking money from anyone other than individuals makes one establishment or even raises money is establishment.

Yes, but why should we give a shit?

Okay, so someone told you Joe Politico is an "establishment" candidate. So what? Why should you care?

I broadly agree with you, but groupthink and policy capture are major risks associated with establishment figures. Of course, policy capture of newcomers might actually be a bigger risk.

[Page]

Establishment doesn't just mean career politicians. The establishment consists of everybody in government who wants to make sure that nothing changes beyond a few minor and incremental reforms. The establishment are those who think the current state of society is acceptable and near being as good as it gets.