What do you think of Communism

[Australian rePublic]

Honestly, I’m getting the sense you’re doing terrorism in bad faith (the wrong way), so I’m suspending your terrorist badge until you earn it back with good faith posts. Your career in terrorism won’t get very far with this kind of intellectually dishonest and un-terroristic conduct.

put me back on the beat, chief, I gotta solve this big case

(the case is duct taping twenty five muskets together and shooting Louis Philippe with them)

You are NOT a terrorist sympathiser. I made a mistake. Can we please move on?

[New Visayan Islands]

Se realmente analisarmos a fundo o que propõe a ideologia comunista e o que escreveu Marx, seria uma sociedade no mínimo justa, onde exista igualdade para todos, sem propriedade privada, mas não pq alguém lhe tomou, mas pq todos tem tudo e ao mesmo tempo não existe mais o estado pra controlar nada. Mas acho pouco provável disso acontecer um dia, seja pelo contexto econômico, social e principalmente político, sempre alguém vai querer ter o mínimo de poder nas mãos.

Good day!

I see you’re new to the forums; the Rules specify the use of the English language outside of dedicated language threads. Please take the time to review them for an enjoyable stay.

Welcome to NationStates!

New Visayan Islands
Game Moderator

[Australian rePublic]

I'm not blind to corruption, even in the Orthodox Church

Nah it ain't that, I mentioned the whole priest thing and I figure if greek orthodox priests had been given summary executions on the regular you'd be less than pleased to find that out. I mean that's a *big* point of contention when it comes to the catholic side, they'll never forget it.

I see. But I still oppose communism and anarchism baded on its merits (or in this case, lack thereof)

[El Lazaro]

Honestly, I’m getting the sense you’re doing terrorism in bad faith (the wrong way), so I’m suspending your terrorist badge until you earn it back with good faith posts. Your career in terrorism won’t get very far with this kind of intellectually dishonest and un-terroristic conduct.

put me back on the beat, chief, I gotta solve this big case

(the case is duct taping twenty five muskets together and shooting Louis Philippe with them)

Ok, fine, but you’re going on administrative leave afterwards so the department doesn’t have to take responsibility if it goes wrong.

put me back on the beat, chief, I gotta solve this big case

(the case is duct taping twenty five muskets together and shooting Louis Philippe with them)

You are NOT a terrorist sympathiser. I made a mistake. Can we please move on?

Your anti-terrorist sentiment is dripping out with malice. I demand an apology.

[Republica da Comunidade Unida]

Se realmente analisarmos a fundo o que propõe a ideologia comunista e o que escreveu Marx, seria uma sociedade no mínimo justa, onde exista igualdade para todos, sem propriedade privada, mas não pq alguém lhe tomou, mas pq todos tem tudo e ao mesmo tempo não existe mais o estado pra controlar nada. Mas acho pouco provável disso acontecer um dia, seja pelo contexto econômico, social e principalmente político, sempre alguém vai querer ter o mínimo de poder nas mãos.

English, please

If we really analyze what the communist ideology proposes and what Marx wrote, it would be a fair society at the very least, where there is equality for all, without private property, but not because someone took it, but because everyone has everything and at the same time The state no longer exists to control anything. But I think that this is unlikely to happen one day, whether due to the economic, social and mainly political context, someone will always want to have the least amount of power in their hands.

[Concejos Unidos]

There's a word for that. Terrorism. Nice to know that you're a terrorist sympathiser

The state uses force to protect itself. By that standard the state and all its violence is terroristic too and terrorism is merely a synonym for political violence.

[Australian rePublic]

Does anyone wanna actually try to address what I wrote here?
viewtopic.php?p=40563042#p40563042

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Does anyone wanna actually try to address what I wrote here?
viewtopic.php?p=40563042#p40563042

There will be more public transport under communism and schedules can still exist under anarchism.

Easy.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Stop taking Nilokeras seriously. He/she is a self-proclaimed terrorist sympathiser. Terrorist sympathisers deserve no Creedance.

Had to imagine you are arguing about anarchism in good faith if you think all opposition to government inherently makes you less trustworthy.

[Untecna]

Australian Republic trying to own people with his points is hilarious to watch.

[Duvniask]

Australian Republic trying to own people with his points is hilarious to watch.

Every time this thread begins to die out, those silly takes pull it right back. Lather, rinse, repeat for weeks on end.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Yes, you're correct. But the difference lies with how anarchism treats the state and how to eliminate it.
Anarchism states that the state and its institutions can be abolished instantaneously. At the same time though, implying that an invisible force and of one of such complexity can be just "disappeared" is willful ignorance.

Anarchism requires force to maintain itself- that's simply an inevitability, since all societies require force to maintain themselves. The problem with anarchism lies with what a "state" is even supposed to be, because as mentioned previously it is a complex force with numerous definitions, none of which can really "fit" statehood.
On the one end, one can argue that anarchism abolishes the state if the state is a "compulsory political organization with a centralized government that maintains a monopoly of the legitimate use of force within a certain territory"- as defined by Weber. At the same time though, the definition of "a political unit with sovereignty over a given territory" gives far more ambiguity to whether or not anarchism has actually abolished the state. Is a decentralized commune- just as an example- that still holds supreme power over the population not a state? Even if the commune is collectively ruled, it's unrealistic to assume that the entire commune will take part in the day-to-day running of the commune. Hence it's far more likely that a politically conscious elite will hold power and hence exert power (sovereignty) over the people.
Again, the definition of a "state" is complex and varies wildly between authors, but it seems to me that anarchism doesn't abolish the state but simply weakens it and states that it has.

Real "statelessness" is not only the lack of a state but the lack of a need to enforce the lack of a state. If one needs to enforce the idea that there is no state, then is it really any different from actually having one?

The long-form of the weberian definition was given for the sake of clarifying what it is. We are Marxists, no? It ain't ours.
In any case, the joke there is that what we call "statelessness" in our parlance is a state to others, but it's the most worthless kind of discussion to have, and generally was not a topic of discussion made by people who mattered when this sort of thing, er, mattered.

As for the matter of "instantaneously", it is important to note that for the classical anarchist "the state" is really just the oppressive functions used to prop up capital and private property (er, most of it, that's a different topic). That's a much easier thing when put like that, innit?

Sure, I'll give it to the classical definition of an anarchist. But we are referring to modern anarchists and anarcho-communists.

[Kubra]

The long-form of the weberian definition was given for the sake of clarifying what it is. We are Marxists, no? It ain't ours.
In any case, the joke there is that what we call "statelessness" in our parlance is a state to others, but it's the most worthless kind of discussion to have, and generally was not a topic of discussion made by people who mattered when this sort of thing, er, mattered.

As for the matter of "instantaneously", it is important to note that for the classical anarchist "the state" is really just the oppressive functions used to prop up capital and private property (er, most of it, that's a different topic). That's a much easier thing when put like that, innit?

Sure, I'll give it to the classical definition of an anarchist. But we are referring to modern anarchists and anarcho-communists.

The only people more irrelevant than them are us.

[Urine Town]

Sure, I'll give it to the classical definition of an anarchist. But we are referring to modern anarchists and anarcho-communists.

About the only thing that had been less successful historically than communist movements were anarchist movements. And this includes both ancaps and ancoms

[Australian rePublic]

Does anyone wanna actually try to address what I wrote here?
viewtopic.php?p=40563042#p40563042

There will be more public transport under communism and schedules can still exist under anarchism.

Easy.

Wow. Way to dodge one criticism whilst ignoring the other six. Did you at least try to read the context?

[Concejos Unidos]

And we all know that the only reason why the KKK exists is because of a lack of equality.

actually yes, one of the most famous results in the social psychology of aggression is the inverse correlation that existed historically between cotton prices and racial violence in the American South. Comes around to economic precarity which makes extremist violent ideologies attractive and makes "rebel fighter" a real career option, ideology aside, in certain parts of the globe.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

There will be more public transport under communism and schedules can still exist under anarchism.

Easy.

Wow. Way to dodge one criticism whilst ignoring the other six. Did you at least try to read the context?

You agree with this one, then?

Sure, I'll give it to the classical definition of an anarchist. But we are referring to modern anarchists and anarcho-communists.

About the only thing that had been less successful historically than communist movements were anarchist movements. And this includes both ancaps and ancoms

This is laughably untrue. Perhaps only if you solely see success in succesful revolutions overthrowing the capitalist order. But anarchist actions have shaped so much of the world through direct action, both historically and to this day.

And ancaps are not anarchists. It’s not even an ideology.

[Urine Town]

This is laughably untrue. Perhaps only if you solely see success in succesful revolutions overthrowing the capitalist order. But anarchist actions have shaped so much of the world through direct action, both historically and to this day.

I guess if you look at “shaping the world” instead of overthrowing an existant government, anarchists have had more relative success. But even then, what type of action? What have anarchists accomplished that wouldn’t have been possible without them. I’m assuming you don’t consider Antifa as anarchist.

[Valrifall]

This is laughably untrue. Perhaps only if you solely see success in succesful revolutions overthrowing the capitalist order. But anarchist actions have shaped so much of the world through direct action, both historically and to this day.

I guess if you look at “shaping the world” instead of overthrowing an existant government, anarchists have had more relative success. But even then, what type of action? What have anarchists accomplished that wouldn’t have been possible without them. I’m assuming you don’t consider Antifa as anarchist.

An anarchist assassinated a sitting US president, for one.

[Bohemia-Utopia]

Planned economies have too much lag to respond to changes in circumstances. A mixed economy protects the peoples interests and strategic assets while allowing evenly regulated trade in non-essentials. Free market economy is legislated piracy.

Corruption and political influence can be used by not-for-profit trust ownership of "public" companies. To reduce fear of nationalisation industries in the public interest have to be defined and limited to that. Investment is still possible from income before profit for a not-for-profit. In fact it encourages investment.

[Valrifall]

Planned economies have too much lag to respond to changes in circumstances. A mixed economy protects the peoples interests and strategic assets while allowing evenly regulated trade in non-essentials. Free trade is legislated piracy.

Counterpoint: any time of market system takes surplus value away from the worker and is, therefore, theft.

[Bohemia-Utopia]

Planned economies have too much lag to respond to changes in circumstances. A mixed economy protects the peoples interests and strategic assets while allowing evenly regulated trade in non-essentials. Free trade is legislated piracy.

Counterpoint: any time of market system takes surplus value away from the worker and is, therefore, theft.

ALL property is theft. Even if owned by workers, investors, politicians or social elites. A more even distribution encourges circulation and common good. Workers also take surplus value. The key is greater justice in disposable income. The tax burden should fall evenly on every unit of currency in value. They are shares in the union of land and people that is the state. This is why my state employs bitcoins as currency. Inflation is the only tax. All land is leased or rented from the state.

[ImperialRussia]

I think the Idea is primitive because the idea is too old in todays society. Their so many technologies available to use and many technological feats are right in grasp for a future where it can be used for control. Today any thing can be tracked by the FBI if the required chip is available to tap.

[Australian rePublic]

Everytime I try to bring up legitimate criticisms of communism, everyone either ignores me or plays pathetic out-of-context mental gymnastics to try to dodge whatever point I try to make. Not only does this reaffirm my previously held beliefs but it actually strengthens them. If everyone were to read this thread and see the mental gymnastics of the communists to try to defend their cancerous ideology, either that, or those who are so brainwashed into the Scientology level cult of communism will become more radicallised and everyone else will see it for the cult it is. I wish I could make it compulsory for people to read the pathetic mental gymnastics of the communists in this thread to avoid other people being brainwashed into the cult

[Nilokeras]

Everytime I try to bring up legitimate criticisms of communism, everyone either ignores me or plays pathetic out-of-context mental gymnastics to try to dodge whatever point I try to make. Not only does this reaffirm my previously held beliefs but it actually strengthens them. If everyone were to read this thread and see the mental gymnastics of the communists to try to defend their cancerous ideology, either that, or those who are so brainwashed into the Scientology level cult of communism will become more radicallised and everyone else will see it for the cult it is. I wish I could make it compulsory for people to read the pathetic mental gymnastics of the communists in this thread to avoid other people being brainwashed into the cult

it is very funny that you're playing the 'why won't people debate me, im too much of a brain god for them' game less than a page after failing to understand a very simple sentence and calling me a terrorist because of it