What do you think of Communism

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

They don't carry social status now. The proposal involves changing that.

And how do you get people to change from "You smell bad from the sewers" to "Oh, you're such a hero for going down there"?

... People shower, you know...

And besides, I already think those people are heroes for doing the work they do.

[Nilokeras]

Thing is, essential work like cleaning sewers doesn't carry any relationships or social status. It's done because it pays well. If you eliminate the need to work for material needs then suddenly everyone wants to do stuff that carries social status, which isn't very productive work.

Does it actually pay that well though? I did a quick search through a job postings website for jobs like 'waste and wastewater technician' and it pulled up an example for a medium-sized town that paid about $50 000 USD. The median salary in the US, by point of comparison, is $44 000 USD. Pretty solidly middle class and a good union job, but also not so high that it would attract people purely based on compensation. It also required a fair amount of certifications that you might expect, like 'Confined Space Entry Certification' that someone would need to train for in order to get the position, so it's not recruiting people who would switch into the field on a whim.

So this whole 'people only go into sewer technician work for the money' line of inquiry doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's not an entry level job and there are a lot of other career paths out there that pay the equivalent amount, if not more. It's almost like peoples' career choices are more complicated than some homo economicus wage-maximizing algorithm.

[Haganham]

And how do you get people to change from "You smell bad from the sewers" to "Oh, you're such a hero for going down there"?

Military veterans get various privileges and holidays in their name, you could do something like that.

No one is going to give a shit(lol) about sewer workers appreciation day. Hell speaking as someoen has one of those appreciation days it's worse then nothing. All it does is remind me how many worthless cunts there are in our country in need of percussive dentistry.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Military veterans get various privileges and holidays in their name, you could do something like that.

No one is going to give a shit(lol) about sewer workers appreciation day. Hell speaking as someoen has one of those appreciation days it's worse then nothing. All it does is remind me how many worthless cunts there are in our country in need of percussive dentistry.

Yes, under capitalism, appreciation exists as an alternative to proper compensation.

But it’s not just about appreciation. It’s about culture as well. Look at the media, at sporting events, at popular culture. Look which professions are fawned over and respected, and which professions are demeaned. Don’t tell me that that doesn’t have an impact.

Just look at the people who say ‘I will be addressed by my husband’s rank’.

[Haganham]

No one is going to give a shit(lol) about sewer workers appreciation day. Hell speaking as someoen has one of those appreciation days it's worse then nothing. All it does is remind me how many worthless cunts there are in our country in need of percussive dentistry.

Yes, under capitalism, appreciation exists as an alternative to proper compensation.

But it’s not just about appreciation. It’s about culture as well. Look at the media, at sporting events, at popular culture. Look which professions are fawned over and respected, and which professions are demeaned. Don’t tell me that that doesn’t have an impact.

Just look at the people who say ‘I will be addressed by my husband’s rank’.

You've got it backwards. Under capitalism, compensation is an alternate to appreciation.

[Australian rePublic]

So without cash money, why would they do it? I'm still waiting for that answer

Probably because they know it needs doing and can do it on their own terms and make it as bearable as possible.

The word salad of a coward who knows he's wrong

How can I be wrong about what my own job is?

Word saald of a coward

See? This is funny.

Then how would you incentivise them to do that work? And in either case, you are defending Nilokeras who was making such a claim. Forgive me for thinking that you agreed with him/her.

I don't think people would actually need any special effort made to incentivise them to maintain their local sewer system. Certainly working on sewer systems is probably pretty nasty at times, but do you know what's probably a lot fucking worse? Living in a town without a functioning sewer system.

Then why are you spending so much time trying to defend tbis one point that I am making? Pathetic excuse?

I believe that this particular tangent started with someone else's post. I'm just responding to the posts in this thread as and when I feel like I have something to say in response to them.

And also, no, none of my points, they're all about communism. I am discussing communism, the topic of discussion in this thread. If you're not willing to discuss any of my other reasons why communism sucks and only try to run this one into the ground, then you're not really interested in the topic at hand, rather than you are suggesting that people would do sewer work for free. By your own logic, this thread isn't about whether or not people would do sewer work for free, and yet, here you are discussing that, at nauisum. I have discussed why communism sucks from multiple angles, and yet you're only focusing on this one. Pathetic excuse. You're now resoeting to pathetic excuses as to why you're unable to prove me wrong

I don't know what other reasons you're talking about. I probably didn't read whatever post you mentioned them in, or maybe I wasn't bothered to respond to the whole thing. Maybe don't get too worked up about it.

You're right. Calling you horrible things was uncalled for. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. It was uncalled for. I apologise

[New Lan Khmerinestan]

Nazism advocates genocide. Communism advocates independence for working people. It's ridiculous to equate them, and the "black book of communism" includes dead Nazi soldiers and nonexistent people.

Precisely why I didn't quote that book, I always prefer to use the two limits of the communism death count: lowest estimation is 68 million people, highest estimation is 172 million.

IE: There where AT LEAST 68 million deaths due to communism.

And if "independence for working people" involves killing a rather large portion of a population, how can you deny that's at least similar to genocide? Is there that much of a difference from killing people due to race than due to economic status?

The difference is very big, and "dying of communism" is a fairly broad concept, is it to die in order to achieve communism? Or died for opposing communism? In fact, as long as the average living is guaranteed, a large number of workers, including old and weak women and children, will not lose their lives at all.

[New Lan Khmerinestan]

Nazism advocates genocide. Communism advocates independence for working people. It's ridiculous to equate them, and the "black book of communism" includes dead Nazi soldiers and nonexistent people.

Precisely why I didn't quote that book, I always prefer to use the two limits of the communism death count: lowest estimation is 68 million people, highest estimation is 172 million.

IE: There where AT LEAST 68 million deaths due to communism.

And if "independence for working people" involves killing a rather large portion of a population, how can you deny that's at least similar to genocide? Is there that much of a difference from killing people due to race than due to economic status?

May I ask if the bourgeois people paid for this

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Yes, under capitalism, appreciation exists as an alternative to proper compensation.

But it’s not just about appreciation. It’s about culture as well. Look at the media, at sporting events, at popular culture. Look which professions are fawned over and respected, and which professions are demeaned. Don’t tell me that that doesn’t have an impact.

Just look at the people who say ‘I will be addressed by my husband’s rank’.

You've got it backwards. Under capitalism, compensation is an alternate to appreciation.

Is this a semantic point or does it have substance?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

-ignore-

[Khardsland]

And the ethnic cleansing continues...

Imma be nice and assume you are talking about the American funded genocide in Bangladesh or maybe the capitalist Reich or the illegal invasion of Iraq or the terrorist attacks on Cuba and Laos or the (again) American funded famine in Yemen and Afghanistan.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Imma be nice and assume you are talking about the American funded genocide in Bangladesh or maybe the capitalist Reich or the illegal invasion of Iraq or the terrorist attacks on Cuba and Laos or the (again) American funded famine in Yemen and Afghanistan.

I'm sorry. It was the wrong thread. Meant for the Ukraine thread lol.

[Sea shep]

I cannot imagine a worse political ideology in this world than communism, between 68 and 172 million people dead within a single century and countless ruined countries at its feet. I genuinely cannot understand how Naziism is so widely (and rightfully) condemned and yet somehow it is acceptable for some people to support communism.

well so u see that is not the purpose of communism if it works (though i admit it is a big if) it is the best ideology and brings happiness to everyone (except people who were hoping to have billions)

[Sea shep]

do you know what communism is

A genocidal, hateful and fundamentally jealous ideology, viciously disguised as "compassion" for the poor/working class.

bruh are you having a bad day it is meant to distribute wealth evenly so no one has to live life with only the necessities

[Sea shep]

Nazism advocates genocide. Communism advocates independence for working people. It's ridiculous to equate them, and the "black book of communism" includes dead Nazi soldiers and nonexistent people.

Precisely why I didn't quote that book, I always prefer to use the two limits of the communism death count: lowest estimation is 68 million people, highest estimation is 172 million.

IE: There where AT LEAST 68 million deaths due to communism.

And if "independence for working people" involves killing a rather large portion of a population, how can you deny that's at least similar to genocide? Is there that much of a difference from killing people due to race than due to economic status?

i know this sounds dumb but that truley wasnt real communism it literally does not fit in the description of communism search up what communism is before u spout shit out

[Sea shep]

I don't happen to have a copy, but will this suffice?

In my copy in Spanish it says "Crush the International Poisoners", not even "exterminate", but independently... I still don't see him advocating for a targeted genocide of Jews... and yet how that went..

I place the blame for these atrocities at the feet of capitalism. As I said, I am of the understanding that libertarian positions are very much in favour of capitalism, which I have demonstrated to be a genocidal system

Alright then, to change it: So you blame Capitalism for a fungus, monarchy and a war started by authoritarian regimes?

ok searched up the definition of fascism and it basically says that fascism is an ideology that oppresses a certain people to benefit a different race within that state/country and with Hitler it was the jews

[United Calanworie]

Hi Sea shep! Welcome to NSG. Please do note the fact that you can combine multiple replies into one post, and quad-posting (or more than that) could be considered spam under the rules.

Cheers.

-- United Calanworie
Technical Moderator

[Portzania]

(Image)

Something that works!

(Don't tell me that Revolutionary Catalonia failed, I don't give two flying fucks. I'm talking about Anarchism itself.)

We have passed
:3333

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

(Image)

Something that works!

(Don't tell me that Revolutionary Catalonia failed, I don't give two flying fucks. I'm talking about Anarchism itself.)

We have passed
:3333

(anarchism has never worked)

[Hispida]

(Image)

Something that works!

(Don't tell me that Revolutionary Catalonia failed, I don't give two flying fucks. I'm talking about Anarchism itself.)

anarchism, which famously worked in revolutionary catalonia (which used a provisional state to suppress opposition), the rojava (which jails suspected terrorists, cracked down on protests, and conscripts people into the SDF), the KPAM (which was invaded and failed to mount a proper response after the decapitation of its leadership), and makhnovia (which used a provisional state to suppress opposition and conscript peasants).

[Delvian States]

As a distributist, I'm particularly hostile to the anti-small business and anti-small peasant position of classical Marxist-Leninism and Stalinism. I do not have any inclination to support those who consider these small-time merchants and farmers as some kind of "oppressive ruling class," when they are clearly part of the downtrodden, just less downtrodden than others. Just my take on things. I prefer to distribute the power and wealth as much as I can, not concentrate in the hands of a ruling party or financial elite or class.

[The Astral Mandate]

As a distributist, I'm particularly hostile to the anti-small business and anti-small peasant position of classical Marxist-Leninism and Stalinism. I do not have any inclination to support those who consider these small-time merchants and farmers as some kind of "oppressive ruling class," when they are clearly part of the downtrodden, just less downtrodden than others. Just my take on things. I prefer to distribute the power and wealth as much as I can, not concentrate in the hands of a ruling party or financial elite or class.

I agree.

[Nilokeras]

(Image)

Something that works!

(Don't tell me that Revolutionary Catalonia failed, I don't give two flying fucks. I'm talking about Anarchism itself.)

anarchism, which famously worked in revolutionary catalonia (which used a provisional state to suppress opposition), the rojava (which jails suspected terrorists, cracked down on protests, and conscripts people into the SDF), the KPAM (which was invaded and failed to mount a proper response after the decapitation of its leadership), and makhnovia (which used a provisional state to suppress opposition and conscript peasants).

Anarchism is not synonymous with pacifism, or even squeamishness about the deployment of violence to defend an anarchist project. To quote Malatesta:

It is our aspiration and our aim that everyone should become socially conscious and effective; but to achieve this end, it is necessary to provide all with the means of life and for development, and it is therefore necessary to destroy with violence, since one cannot do otherwise, the violence which denies these means to the workers.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

anarchism, which famously worked in revolutionary catalonia (which used a provisional state to suppress opposition), the rojava (which jails suspected terrorists, cracked down on protests, and conscripts people into the SDF), the KPAM (which was invaded and failed to mount a proper response after the decapitation of its leadership), and makhnovia (which used a provisional state to suppress opposition and conscript peasants).

Anarchism is not synonymous with pacifism, or even squeamishness about the deployment of violence to defend an anarchist project. To quote Malatesta:

It is our aspiration and our aim that everyone should become socially conscious and effective; but to achieve this end, it is necessary to provide all with the means of life and for development, and it is therefore necessary to destroy with violence, since one cannot do otherwise, the violence which denies these means to the workers.

Hispida's point was not that anarchism is wrong for using violence. Hispida's point was that so-called "anarchists", which have the most basic ideological principle of "not having a state" in practice just continue the state in order to enforce the illusion of a lack of a state. In other words; anarchism fucking contradicts itself... which is what you expect from an ideology who has no actual theory outside of "DESTROY AUTHORITY!".

Anarchism induces its own downfall by making it impossible to implement without the usage of authority and force.

[Pangurstan]

Anarchism is not synonymous with pacifism, or even squeamishness about the deployment of violence to defend an anarchist project. To quote Malatesta:

It is our aspiration and our aim that everyone should become socially conscious and effective; but to achieve this end, it is necessary to provide all with the means of life and for development, and it is therefore necessary to destroy with violence, since one cannot do otherwise, the violence which denies these means to the workers.

Hispida's point was not that anarchism is wrong for using violence. Hispida's point was that so-called "anarchists", which have the most basic ideological principle of "not having a state" in practice just continue the state in order to enforce the illusion of a lack of a state. In other words; anarchism fucking contradicts itself... which is what you expect from an ideology who has no actual theory outside of "DESTROY AUTHORITY!".

Anarchism induces its own downfall by making it impossible to implement without the usage of authority and force.

There are 3 schools of anarchist thought:

1. The anarcho-police will non-hierarchically arrest you and send you to the democratic prison if you break the anarcho-laws
2. Everyone will magically get along if you shout "I declare anarchy!" loud enough
3. Sociopathy