What do you think of Communism

[Australian rePublic]

And do you know what sewer maintenance is like? Doubtful. Pot calling the kettle black

I'm not the one insisting that anyone who says it's not as bad as might be assumed is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You've been going on for weeks as if working on sewers means being neck deep in literal shit all day, every day. Why should we believe you? You drive a truck for a living.

Um, because I'be looked into it. Because I talk to people. Because I've seen people do sewer work in and around my house. Because all the sewer pipes around my house had to be religned, and I actually saw the person who was religning them and spoke to him whilst he was doing it. What's your experience based on? Under what authority do you call me wrong?

[The state of drunkness]

could be worse

[Ifreann]

I'm not the one insisting that anyone who says it's not as bad as might be assumed is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You've been going on for weeks as if working on sewers means being neck deep in literal shit all day, every day. Why should we believe you? You drive a truck for a living.

Um, because I'be looked into it. Because I talk to people. Because I've seen people do sewer work in and around my house. Because all the sewer pipes around my house had to be religned, and I actually saw the person who was religning them and spoke to him whilst he was doing it. What's your experience based on? Under what authority do you call me wrong?

Is that it? Fucking everyone has seen work being done on underground pipes. That's what has you acting like you have some special insight into sewer maintenance that is unavailable to people with "airy-fairy" jobs? Whatever in the fuck that means, do you not think that people with those jobs can see the same work being done?

[Nilokeras]

Like in the grand scheme of things, sewer maintenance is not that unpleasant of a job.

Considering that you said this unironically and genuinely mean it, you're clearly off with the fairies living in la-la fantasy land and have no knowledge about anything in the real world, and nothing you say should ever be taken seriously. Ever. Either stop living in pretend la-la fantasy land and leave the discussion to people who live in the real world or enter the real world and stop making such idiotic claims. I now know with 100 gagillion percent certainty that you do an airy-fairy. No body who's ever worked in the real world would make such an idiotic claim. Considering that you've never worked a single day in your life, don't claim to speak on behalf of people who actually work. Leave the discussion of what it's like to work for a living to people who actually work for a living. We don't need people who've never done a day of work in their lives to speak on our behalf. We actually what we're talking about. You don't. You're off with the fairies. Before reading your posts, I thought that communists were misguided. Now because of you and everyone else in the thread making similar claims, I know that communists are truly off with the fairies. Moronic claims like this make me hate communism even more than I did before. And I didn't even think that was possible. Now, you don't know what people who work for a living think about their jobs, and you never will. Stop claiming to. Everything you say about the work class's conditions is 100% wrong and spoken out of completely ignorance. Everything. Every word of it is spoken out of ignorance. You're just embarrassing your cause even more. You're off with the fairies, mate, leave the discussion to people who live in the real world. Everything else you've said is irrelevant and discredited by that single statement. That one statement proves that you know nothing about the real world, and thus all your claims are the deluded ramblings of someone who's off with the fairies

I do enjoy being proven correct that this whole line of inquiry was a paper-thin, desperate hunt for a reason to dismiss an argument you have no chance of beating.

One also can't help but be amused at this new sanctimony about being working class from the guy who fully bought that I worked in a gay steel mill

[Australian rePublic]

Um, because I'be looked into it. Because I talk to people. Because I've seen people do sewer work in and around my house. Because all the sewer pipes around my house had to be religned, and I actually saw the person who was religning them and spoke to him whilst he was doing it. What's your experience based on? Under what authority do you call me wrong?

Is that it? Fucking everyone has seen work being done on underground pipes. That's what has you acting like you have some special insight into sewer maintenance that is unavailable to people with "airy-fairy" jobs? Whatever in the fuck that means, do you not think that people with those jobs can see the same work being done?

Right, so you mean to tell me you've never worked a day in your life, but you've seen people work in sewers and thought "Golly Gee, I wouldn't mind doing it day-in-day-out, but I wanna get paid for it, only if I could do it for free". Yea sure pal, and I'm the Pope's sister-in-law

Considering that you said this unironically and genuinely mean it, you're clearly off with the fairies living in la-la fantasy land and have no knowledge about anything in the real world, and nothing you say should ever be taken seriously. Ever. Either stop living in pretend la-la fantasy land and leave the discussion to people who live in the real world or enter the real world and stop making such idiotic claims. I now know with 100 gagillion percent certainty that you do an airy-fairy. No body who's ever worked in the real world would make such an idiotic claim. Considering that you've never worked a single day in your life, don't claim to speak on behalf of people who actually work. Leave the discussion of what it's like to work for a living to people who actually work for a living. We don't need people who've never done a day of work in their lives to speak on our behalf. We actually what we're talking about. You don't. You're off with the fairies. Before reading your posts, I thought that communists were misguided. Now because of you and everyone else in the thread making similar claims, I know that communists are truly off with the fairies. Moronic claims like this make me hate communism even more than I did before. And I didn't even think that was possible. Now, you don't know what people who work for a living think about their jobs, and you never will. Stop claiming to. Everything you say about the work class's conditions is 100% wrong and spoken out of completely ignorance. Everything. Every word of it is spoken out of ignorance. You're just embarrassing your cause even more. You're off with the fairies, mate, leave the discussion to people who live in the real world. Everything else you've said is irrelevant and discredited by that single statement. That one statement proves that you know nothing about the real world, and thus all your claims are the deluded ramblings of someone who's off with the fairies

I do enjoy being proven correct that this whole line of inquiry was a paper-thin, desperate hunt for a reason to dismiss an argument you have no chance of beating. Lying doesn't prvoe you correct, it proves you a liar. Anyone could win any argument if resorting to such pathetic lies. Come back and speak to me truthfully if you want to be taken seriously. And even then, I wasn't 100% sure about your claims in the first place, I gave you the benefit of the doubt

One also can't help but be amused at this new sanctimony about being working class from the guy who fully bought that I worked in a gay steel mill

Yea, having to resort to such pathetic lies disembowelled 3/4 of any creditability you had. To be honest, this kind of lie is so pathetic, that I wouldn't have thought anyone would resort to it. That's why I believed your lie. Managing to make me believe such a pathetic lie doesn't do anything to prove your point. You stop patting yourself on the back because it. And you STILL haven't addressed any of my other points. You're still clutching at straws trying to make this one look less stupid. Although, to be fair, if you're having issues with this point, you wouldn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of trying to argue against any of my other points, so I don't blame you for ignoring them

[Australian rePublic]

Doesn't really change the point that it's important to separate the parts of jobs that are unpleasant due to the inherent nature of the work being done and the ways in which the organization of our economy makes them unpleasant.

Ah, so you ARE capable of acknowledging that some jobs are unoleasent in and of themselves. Then why are you trying to suggest to me that that's not the case? Your argument is so weak and pathetic that your lies have to contradict each other. You can't even have consistant lies, they have to be contradictory. You accuse me of having flimsy arguments when you have to resort to contradictory lies to make your claims look a lit bit stupid rather than completely stupid

[El Lazaro]

I'm the Pope's sister-in-law

Really? I’m pretty sure that is not allowed. You need to report the Pope to the Vatican police. Outrageous.

[Australian rePublic]

I'm the Pope's sister-in-law

Really? I’m pretty sure that is not allowed. You need to report the Pope to the Vatican police. Outrageous.

Not that kind of sister-in-law. I married his brother

[El Lazaro]

Really? I’m pretty sure that is not allowed. You need to report the Pope to the Vatican police. Outrageous.

Not that kind of sister-in-law. I married his brother

I demand to see the birth certificates

[Australian rePublic]

Not that kind of sister-in-law. I married his brother

I demand to see the birth certificates

I think we've taken this far enough

[Australian rePublic]

And do you know what sewer maintenance is like? Doubtful. Pot calling the kettle black

I'm not the one insisting that anyone who says it's not as bad as might be assumed is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You've been going on for weeks as if working on sewers means being neck deep in literal shit all day, every day. Why should we believe you? You drive a truck for a living.

I am NOT a truck driver

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Ah, so you ARE capable of acknowledging that some jobs are unoleasent in and of themselves. Then why are you trying to suggest to me that that's not the case? Your argument is so weak and pathetic that your lies have to contradict each other. You can't even have consistant lies, they have to be contradictory. You accuse me of having flimsy arguments when you have to resort to contradictory lies to make your claims look a lit bit stupid rather than completely stupid

'Lies', here, are either things you don't agree with (which are more often truths than lies) or things that are nuanced, where you also call the nuance 'lies'.

[Umeria]

Ah, so you ARE capable of acknowledging that some jobs are unoleasent in and of themselves. Then why are you trying to suggest to me that that's not the case? Your argument is so weak and pathetic that your lies have to contradict each other. You can't even have consistant lies, they have to be contradictory. You accuse me of having flimsy arguments when you have to resort to contradictory lies to make your claims look a lit bit stupid rather than completely stupid

'Lies', here, are either things you don't agree with (which are more often truths than lies) or things that are nuanced, where you also call the nuance 'lies'.

I mean it makes sense that he's confused. I'd be too if I asked someone how communism deals with unpleasant jobs and they said "we can make those jobs less unpleasant" when their actual answer is "communal/social incentives".

[Australian rePublic]

Ah, so you ARE capable of acknowledging that some jobs are unoleasent in and of themselves. Then why are you trying to suggest to me that that's not the case? Your argument is so weak and pathetic that your lies have to contradict each other. You can't even have consistant lies, they have to be contradictory. You accuse me of having flimsy arguments when you have to resort to contradictory lies to make your claims look a lit bit stupid rather than completely stupid

'Lies', here, are either things you don't agree with (which are more often truths than lies) or things that are nuanced, where you also call the nuance 'lies'.

Nope. Actual lies. Nilokeras has actually admitted to lying about working in a steel mill. This is what I was referring to. Please try to look into context before trying to put words in my mouth

[Umeria]

'Lies', here, are either things you don't agree with (which are more often truths than lies) or things that are nuanced, where you also call the nuance 'lies'.

Nope. Actual lies. Nilokeras has actually admitted to lying about working in a steel mill. This is what I was referring to. Please try to look into context before trying to put words in my mouth

No that was clearly a joke.

[Ifreann]

Is that it? Fucking everyone has seen work being done on underground pipes. That's what has you acting like you have some special insight into sewer maintenance that is unavailable to people with "airy-fairy" jobs? Whatever in the fuck that means, do you not think that people with those jobs can see the same work being done?

Right, so you mean to tell me you've never worked a day in your life, but you've seen people work in sewers and thought "Golly Gee, I wouldn't mind doing it day-in-day-out, but I wanna get paid for it, only if I could do it for free". Yea sure pal, and I'm the Pope's sister-in-law

I'm not telling you anything. You're here telling all of us that you saw some workmen digging up pipes one time and based on that you've decided that their job is the worst possible thing in society, just non-stop misery that no one in their right mind would want to do without being paid.

---

I'm not the one insisting that anyone who says it's not as bad as might be assumed is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You've been going on for weeks as if working on sewers means being neck deep in literal shit all day, every day. Why should we believe you? You drive a truck for a living.

I am NOT a truck driver

You're a courier, I assume you aren't transporting things around on foot.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

'Lies', here, are either things you don't agree with (which are more often truths than lies) or things that are nuanced, where you also call the nuance 'lies'.

I mean it makes sense that he's confused. I'd be too if I asked someone how communism deals with unpleasant jobs and they said "we can make those jobs less unpleasant" when their actual answer is "communal/social incentives".

Both can be true, no?

[Umeria]

I mean it makes sense that he's confused. I'd be too if I asked someone how communism deals with unpleasant jobs and they said "we can make those jobs less unpleasant" when their actual answer is "communal/social incentives".

Both can be true, no?

The first one is not an answer to the question. So if you only say that, you look like you don't have an answer.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Both can be true, no?

The first one is not an answer to the question. So if you only say that, you look like you don't have an answer.

It’s an answer you might not agree with, but you shouldn’t confuse that with ‘not an answer’.

Besides, unpleasantness and ‘social incentives’ are hard to separate. How unpleasant a job is may be limited by how much adoration people receive who do it, as shown by one of the most unpleasant jobs in existence: being in the military. A job that, under communism, will no longer be required.

[Umeria]

The first one is not an answer to the question. So if you only say that, you look like you don't have an answer.

It’s an answer you might not agree with, but you shouldn’t confuse that with ‘not an answer’.

Besides, unpleasantness and ‘social incentives’ are hard to separate. How unpleasant a job is may be limited by how much adoration people receive who do it, as shown by one of the most unpleasant jobs in existence: being in the military. A job that, under communism, will no longer be required.

It is objectively not an answer. Less unpleasant jobs are still unpleasant, so the question "how will communism deal with unpleasant jobs" remains unchanged.

Clearly they aren't hard to separate, as you recogize the unpleasantness of the military and the social value it bestows as two distinct effects.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

It’s an answer you might not agree with, but you shouldn’t confuse that with ‘not an answer’.

Besides, unpleasantness and ‘social incentives’ are hard to separate. How unpleasant a job is may be limited by how much adoration people receive who do it, as shown by one of the most unpleasant jobs in existence: being in the military. A job that, under communism, will no longer be required.

It is objectively not an answer. Less unpleasant jobs are still unpleasant, so the question "how will communism deal with unpleasant jobs" remains unchanged.

Clearly they aren't hard to separate, as you recogize the unpleasantness of the military and the social value it bestows as two distinct effects.

But the question is not 'how do we make all jobs pleasant', is it? The question is 'how do we make jobs pleasant enough that people are willing to work them'.

Clearly, some people find working for the military pleasant, even despite the danger. But that's just a semantic question on what you consider to be part of 'pleasantness', so perhaps that's not an interesting route to take.

[Umeria]

It is objectively not an answer. Less unpleasant jobs are still unpleasant, so the question "how will communism deal with unpleasant jobs" remains unchanged.

Clearly they aren't hard to separate, as you recogize the unpleasantness of the military and the social value it bestows as two distinct effects.

But the question is not 'how do we make all jobs pleasant', is it? The question is 'how do we make jobs pleasant enough that people are willing to work them'.

Clearly, some people find working for the military pleasant, even despite the danger. But that's just a semantic question on what you consider to be part of 'pleasantness', so perhaps that's not an interesting route to take.

Slightly unpleasant is not pleasant enough absent any other incentives. So you either need to make all jobs pleasant, or provide other incentives. And yes, saying "the incentive makes it pleasant" is just semantics.

[Nilokeras]

'Lies', here, are either things you don't agree with (which are more often truths than lies) or things that are nuanced, where you also call the nuance 'lies'.

I mean it makes sense that he's confused. I'd be too if I asked someone how communism deals with unpleasant jobs and they said "we can make those jobs less unpleasant" when their actual answer is "communal/social incentives".

I’ve pointed out several times now that a significant part of why unpleasant jobs are the way they are is because of how our economy creates them - such as by making janitors work 40 hours a week on night shifts for minimum wage. You can make the function they perform of ‘keeping spaces clean and hygienic’ much less unpleasant by reallocating tasks and improving working conditions. The same principle applies to most other unpleasant jobs. You can’t get rid of all unpleasant work, but you can mitigate it.

[The Astral Mandate]

I mean it makes sense that he's confused. I'd be too if I asked someone how communism deals with unpleasant jobs and they said "we can make those jobs less unpleasant" when their actual answer is "communal/social incentives".

I’ve pointed out several times now that a significant part of why unpleasant jobs are the way they are is because of how our economy creates them - such as by making janitors work 40 hours a week on night shifts for minimum wage. You can make the function they perform of ‘keeping spaces clean and hygienic’ much less unpleasant by reallocating tasks and improving working conditions. The same principle applies to most other unpleasant jobs. You can’t get rid of all unpleasant work, but you can mitigate it.

Oh, and another way- actually MAKE PEOPLE CLEAN UP AFTER THEMSELVES!
(Aight, I think we've all been waiting for that)
More on topic, I do agree that unpleasant work can be mitigated.

[Umeria]

I mean it makes sense that he's confused. I'd be too if I asked someone how communism deals with unpleasant jobs and they said "we can make those jobs less unpleasant" when their actual answer is "communal/social incentives".

I’ve pointed out several times now that a significant part of why unpleasant jobs are the way they are is because of how our economy creates them - such as by making janitors work 40 hours a week on night shifts for minimum wage. You can make the function they perform of ‘keeping spaces clean and hygienic’ much less unpleasant by reallocating tasks and improving working conditions. The same principle applies to most other unpleasant jobs. You can’t get rid of all unpleasant work, but you can mitigate it.

That is the situation I was referring to, yes.