What do you think of Communism

[Exarkyon]

It is said that Communism (interchangeable with Socialism) has "never been truly tried". Not because that statement is true, because it's always real Socialism, but because it fails to produce the outcomes ideologues expect from it. They disown it all in some delusional spell, gaslighting themselves into thinking that if they try it again in another country, this time they will succeed and create the workers' utopia.

man why does liberalism get a million Mulligans but communism gets a handful of tries

Because one, by name or otherwise, has been the economic system of humanity since before the Roman Empire and has a decent track record, while the other has a track record of authoritarian, inefficient dictatorships and directly proposes the violation of the right to private property.

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

man why does liberalism get a million Mulligans but communism gets a handful of tries

Because one, by name or otherwise, has been the economic system of humanity since before the Roman Empire and has a decent track record, while the other has a track record of authoritarian, inefficient dictatorships and directly proposes the violation of the right to private property.

Liberalism has not been around since before the Roman Empire. It came into existance around the 17th or 18th century.

[Exarkyon]

man why does liberalism get a million Mulligans but communism gets a handful of tries

Well, to these people, Liberalism has a much higher "success rate" than Communism.

Sort of. My objections to it are based on the philosophy behind it, not any results it has had. To me, private property is a right. Not an absolute one, but it still is one that communism violates. Socialism also violates subdiarity; it puts managing everything on the state instead of spreading it out. Lesser institutions exist to do their jobs so the central government doesn't have to, not for the central government to take them over. Concentrating power just makes an "absolute power corrupts absolutely" situation.

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

Well, to these people, Liberalism has a much higher "success rate" than Communism.

Sort of. My objections to it are based on the philosophy behind it, not any results it has had. To me, private property is a right. Not an absolute one, but it still is one that communism violates. Socialism also violates subdiarity; it puts managing everything on the state instead of spreading it out. Lesser institutions exist to do their jobs so the central government doesn't have to, not for the central government to take them over. Concentrating power just makes an "absolute power corrupts absolutely" situation.

Socialism actually believes that power should be totally decentralised, and that the state as a body should be abolished. Which I disagree with, but it certainly isn't authoritarian or completely centralized.

[Redwood Ridge]

If Socialism is a failure, then the "Anarcho-Socialism" that Anarchist propose is a complete joke. Any attempt at anarchy reproduces the functions of a state in all but name, and at least under liberal capitalism the police as an organization can be held accountable via lawyers. Have fun trying to hold Comrade Smith accountable when him and his gang are the ones armed with the guns.

[Elwher]

How do we arbitrate what's inhumane? What qualifies the workers as "protected"? You could spend the rest of your life reading labour legislation and tbh the working class ain't any freer

It's inhumane if it violates workers' rights.

Workers have the right to a just wage, to rest, to a safe work environment, to unemployment assistance, to senior pensions, to health care, to disability insurance, to parental leave and benefits, to organize and to strike.

The last one is important, because it empowers workers to get change that isn't immediately or obviously covered by the others.

Any capitalist dystopia, and the general situation imagined by communists, is violating workers' rights in some way.

Workers are protected when their rights are not being violated and the dignity of work is respected.

And any situation where workers only have one choice to work at is a monopoly on jobs; monopolies are bad. The government should get involved there.

I don't think reading labor legislation will make people freer; writing it will.

All of these fall under the 'who decides' category. Who decides what a "just" wage is? What constitutes a "safe" work environment?

And where has the situation ever occurred where workers have only one choice to work at?

The one I totally agree with is the right of workers to organize and strike, as long as management has the equivalent right, to organize and lock out.

[United Territory of Northern Canada]

Communism hella gay

[Kubra]

man why does liberalism get a million Mulligans but communism gets a handful of tries

Because one, by name or otherwise, has been the economic system of humanity since before the Roman Empire and has a decent track record, while the other has a track record of authoritarian, inefficient dictatorships and directly proposes the violation of the right to private property.

Uh, I'm sorry, do you mean "capitalism"? While that's also partly ridiculous, it's much less so than you actually meaning liberalism.

[Corporate Collective Salvation]

All of these fall under the 'who decides' category. Who decides what a "just" wage is? What constitutes a "safe" work environment?

And where has the situation ever occurred where workers have only one choice to work at?

The one I totally agree with is the right of workers to organize and strike, as long as management has the equivalent right, to organize and lock out.

That is what makes public service unions so insidious in nature.
Sitting across the table from a government employee is another government employee playing the part of owner/management in a mockery of arbitration.

I have always found it deliciously ironic that of all of the primary opponents to the PSU concept, FDR thought that was a bridge too far.

[The Rickpublic]

I cannot imagine a worse political ideology in this world than communism, between 68 and 172 million people dead within a single century and countless ruined countries at its feet. I genuenly cannot understand how nazism is so widely (and rightfuly) condemned and yet somehow it is acceptable for some people to support communism.

Honest to God agree with this statement. Every attempt at communism has destroyed the nation it's been attempted in, and yet people continuously try to claim that whatever ills come from it have either never happened, or happened because it wasn't actual communism.

Not to be rude but this argument kinda sucks, Just because a political ideology in some certain countries were ran by Terribile Leaders doesn't make the entire ideology bad because if that was the case then Capitalism has failed due to the CSA being evil but capitalist i can agree the nations that have practiced communism have MOSTLY failed, i say mostly due to the fact that The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) is the #2 Overall nation in the world and y'know over 72,000 Americans permanently live in china, and China is the 4th most visited nation in the world, so No communism isn't evil, it just has been ran MOSTLY by evil people

[Australian rePublic]

Honest to God agree with this statement. Every attempt at communism has destroyed the nation it's been attempted in, and yet people continuously try to claim that whatever ills come from it have either never happened, or happened because it wasn't actual communism.

Not to be rude but this argument kinda sucks, Just because a political ideology in some certain countries were ran by Terribile Leaders doesn't make the entire ideology bad because if that was the case then Capitalism has failed due to the CSA being evil but capitalist i can agree the nations that have practiced communism have MOSTLY failed, i say mostly due to the fact that The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) is the #2 Overall nation in the world and y'know over 72,000 Americans permanently live in china, and China is the 4th most visited nation in the world, so No communism isn't evil, it just has been ran MOSTLY by evil people

Wait, you're you're praising the Chinese government now? China may have the #2 economy, but they're number 1 in population by a long shot, putting them far, far, far behind the USA. Also, they're a genocidal regime who run propoganda mills across the entire world. Also, China has improved significantly since ditching communism, but communism's skidmarks still plauge the country

[Australian rePublic]

Also one more time for the dummies. John and Jessica have different standards of what's consideres cleanliness. You still haven't addressed this. Also, if Bob's a dick, why would he care about fulfilling work. Also, I can not stress this enough, work is a terrible place to look for friends. If you can't find friends outside of work, that's not a good thing. I have plenty of friends and have met none of them at work. Why are you ignoring this? Also, everyone is worse off when you have to spend your break time cleaning up, and the janitor has lost his job

Pretty sure the steel mill is supposed to represent the entire society, not just one workplace. So making friends "at work" would in this case mean making friends in general, by doing work. The underlying motivation is some general social consensus.

In my opinion this consensus would make some different decisions than what they're implying here, but whatever.

Metaphor my arse. What's the bet that he does some airy-fairy job such as painter or philosopher and claims that he suddenly would become a blue collar worker with no incentives, despite failing to do so with an incentive, but he's just too embarrassed to admit it?

[Kubra]

some airy-fairy job such as painter or philosopher

lol

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Your steel mill is sounding more and more fictious

Also one more time for the dummies. John and Jessica have different standards of what's consideres cleanliness. You still haven't addressed this. Also, if Bob's a dick, why would he care about fulfilling work. Also, I can not stress this enough, work is a terrible place to look for friends. If you can't find friends outside of work, that's not a good thing. I have plenty of friends and have met none of them at work. Why are you ignoring this? Also, everyone is worse off when you have to spend your break time cleaning up, and the janitor has lost his job

Your inability to see the bars of your own cage is not really our problem, and neither is your lack of imagination.

It has already been said: it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.

[El Lazaro]

some airy-fairy job such as painter or philosopher

lol

I’m guessing this is supposed to mean artists, but now that I realize it, why isn’t anyone asking “Fellas, is it silly and effeminate to finish a construction job and prevent exterior building damage?” Real manly men leave walls exposed and full of cracks.

[American Legionaries]

Also one more time for the dummies. John and Jessica have different standards of what's consideres cleanliness. You still haven't addressed this. Also, if Bob's a dick, why would he care about fulfilling work. Also, I can not stress this enough, work is a terrible place to look for friends. If you can't find friends outside of work, that's not a good thing. I have plenty of friends and have met none of them at work. Why are you ignoring this? Also, everyone is worse off when you have to spend your break time cleaning up, and the janitor has lost his job

Your inability to see the bars of your own cage is not really our problem, and neither is your lack of imagination.

It has already been said: it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.

The inability to see what doesn't exist is called sanity, and is good actually.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Your inability to see the bars of your own cage is not really our problem, and neither is your lack of imagination.

It has already been said: it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.

The inability to see what doesn't exist is called sanity, and is good actually.

You think capitalism is a totally voluntary system wherein goods, services and labour are exchanged totally freely with absolutely no external pressures other than just the primal urge to engage in commerce?

[American Legionaries]

The inability to see what doesn't exist is called sanity, and is good actually.

You think capitalism is a totally voluntary system wherein goods, services and labour are exchanged totally freely with absolutely no external pressures other than just the primal urge to engage in commerce?

Nope.

[Redwood Ridge]

The ideal end state of Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless society. But that's a bad thing, because it describes tribal living. It is anti-progress. When you ask what the aim of a Socialist is, they (usually) might start off innocent: advocating for universal healthcare, free college, affordable housing, etc. But when you ask them "what's next?", all will invariably describe a transition into this utopian vision of society. Those who tell you that they don't think it's currently feasible ARE still socialist, but they're trying to hide it. And this workers utopia is brought about only after the revolutionaries have propped up enough revolutions elsewhere, in order to subvert enough of the world that they become the dominant power bloc, and then is able to impose its will on the rest of the planet; whether they wanted it or not.

[Umeria]

Pretty sure the steel mill is supposed to represent the entire society, not just one workplace. So making friends "at work" would in this case mean making friends in general, by doing work. The underlying motivation is some general social consensus.

In my opinion this consensus would make some different decisions than what they're implying here, but whatever.

Metaphor my arse. What's the bet that he does some airy-fairy job such as painter or philosopher and claims that he suddenly would become a blue collar worker with no incentives, despite failing to do so with an incentive, but he's just too embarrassed to admit it?

I don't see what one's job is under the current system has to do with incentives to work in a hypothetical future system.

[The Rickpublic]

Not to be rude but this argument kinda sucks, Just because a political ideology in some certain countries were ran by Terribile Leaders doesn't make the entire ideology bad because if that was the case then Capitalism has failed due to the CSA being evil but capitalist i can agree the nations that have practiced communism have MOSTLY failed, i say mostly due to the fact that The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) is the #2 Overall nation in the world and y'know over 72,000 Americans permanently live in china, and China is the 4th most visited nation in the world, so No communism isn't evil, it just has been ran MOSTLY by evil people

Wait, you're you're praising the Chinese government now? China may have the #2 economy, but they're number 1 in population by a long shot, putting them far, far, far behind the USA. Also, they're a genocidal regime who run propoganda mills across the entire world. Also, China has improved significantly since ditching communism, but communism's skidmarks still plauge the country

Please tell me how simply stating facts is praising china, it is factual that China is STILL a communist country and has the 2nd in both population and economy. I dont consider china evil when they have successfully taken 770 Million people out of poverty. You cant label countries has evil just because you dont agree with them, also what do you mean by " but they're number 1 in population by a long shot, putting them far, far, far behind the USA" what do you mean far behind the US?

[Kubra]

The ideal end state of Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless society. But that's a bad thing, because it describes tribal living. It is anti-progress. When you ask what the aim of a Socialist is, they (usually) might start off innocent: advocating for universal healthcare, free college, affordable housing, etc. But when you ask them "what's next?", all will invariably describe a transition into this utopian vision of society. Those who tell you that they don't think it's currently feasible ARE still socialist, but they're trying to hide it. And this workers utopia is brought about only after the revolutionaries have propped up enough revolutions elsewhere, in order to subvert enough of the world that they become the dominant power bloc, and then is able to impose its will on the rest of the planet; whether they wanted it or not.

So progress is more class, more money, more state?
hey i'll take all 3, to go

[Redwood Ridge]

Wait, you're you're praising the Chinese government now? China may have the #2 economy, but they're number 1 in population by a long shot, putting them far, far, far behind the USA. Also, they're a genocidal regime who run propoganda mills across the entire world. Also, China has improved significantly since ditching communism, but communism's skidmarks still plauge the country

Please tell me how simply stating facts is praising china, it is factual that China is STILL a communist country and has the 2nd in both population and economy. I dont consider china evil when they have successfully taken 770 Million people out of poverty. You cant label countries has evil just because you dont agree with them, also what do you mean by " but they're number 1 in population by a long shot, putting them far, far, far behind the USA" what do you mean far behind the US?

At least you're mask-off about supporting a violent, repressive state. And good for you, just know that this free speech you enjoy in your western democracy isn't so valued within the proletariat paradise you simp for.

[Rusticus I Damianus]

It sucks.

[New Temecula]

"Socializing is socialism, a community is communism."
-an introvert