What do you think of Communism

[American-Canada Union]

nah bro im anti-communist
basically im saying: no to communism
do not start an argument pls

[Kubra]

It's a deceptive carrot for a cowardly dictatorship, to make people think they toil for their own benefit and to make them think they are antisocial if they rebel as "enemies of the people".

A real ruler tells it like it is: Equality is a lie and can never be achieved. Order and good hierarchy must be maintained so that the weak can have mercy and basic rights like food, water and medicine. Not delusions of their own grandeur, like making them believe they can run an advanced economy with democratic means, which would be a total mess.

Hear hear, well said! The natural order is one in which you're subordinated to me, your superior.

[Land of The Furries]

Not necessarily cuz there are some companies that do treat their employees like family so that really wouldn't work for this.

Families where you are fired and risk becoming homeless if the ‘boss’ of the family deems it necessary.

That you think this, is eactly the kind of brain washing Khard meant to describe.

Ok but it still doesn't answer my question to where the forbidden books of the Bible fits in there with what Khard said.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Do i like the idea? yes i think it is one of the most amazing theories on how to run a country
do i want it to happen? hell no, since its not working. Communism only works is EVERYTHING goes right. eliminating the market competion will result in stagnation in terms of economic growth and innovation. it also only works if there is litteraly no corruption and no one has self-interests. take away those cool fairytails and communist governments are forced to enforce oppessive measurements to make sure the people don't stand up for the things that are real.
to make things short: the idea is cool, but its basically an unreachable dream.

As opposed to capitalism, which does not even work theoretically.

Families where you are fired and risk becoming homeless if the ‘boss’ of the family deems it necessary.

That you think this, is eactly the kind of brain washing Khard meant to describe.

Ok but it still doesn't answer my question to where the forbidden books of the Bible fits in there with what Khard said.

Different user. And uninteresting question.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

It's a deceptive carrot for a cowardly dictatorship, to make people think they toil for their own benefit and to make them think they are antisocial if they rebel as "enemies of the people".

A real ruler tells it like it is: Equality is a lie and can never be achieved. Order and good hierarchy must be maintained so that the weak can have mercy and basic rights like food, water and medicine. Not delusions of their own grandeur, like making them believe they can run an advanced economy with democratic means, which would be a total mess.

I'm adding deodorant to your shopping list.

[The Phoenician Republic]

It's a deceptive carrot for a cowardly dictatorship, to make people think they toil for their own benefit and to make them think they are antisocial if they rebel as "enemies of the people".

A real ruler tells it like it is: Equality is a lie and can never be achieved. Order and good hierarchy must be maintained so that the weak can have mercy and basic rights like food, water and medicine. Not delusions of their own grandeur, like making them believe they can run an advanced economy with democratic means, which would be a total mess.

I'm adding deodorant to your shopping list.

This makes no sense.

[Floofybit]

Keep it at the transition from capitalism to communism. Don't go too far either way

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

I'm adding deodorant to your shopping list.

This makes no sense.

I don't know how it makes no sense to you, but okay mr. Phoenicia lover 2000

[Drongonia]

This makes no sense.

I don't know how it makes no sense to you, but okay mr. Phoenicia lover 2000

And how do one's showering habits influence their opinions on communism or the natural order?

[Nilokeras]

What the fuck are you talking about? I have worked at places where I had to do my own dishes. Now I work alone, but before I did, I would have to do my own dishes, and I did so without any issue. I've never heard of an office or warehouse or anything of the like where you DON'T have to do your own dishes. Considering that you claim to work in a steel mill, I'm curious, does your steel mill have someone who washes all your dishes?

Of course not. At the very heterosexual steel mill, we get each other all sudsy and wash them together.

This is what I said. One more time for the dummies- Jessica is a neat freak and wants everything to be sparkling. John doesn't care too much and does the bare minimum. Bob really doesn't care and does nothing. Bob is a pariah. Bob doesn't care about being a pariah. This leads to conflict. Conflict which, mind you, you still conveniently haven't addressed. How the fuck did you interpret that to mean I don't want to do my own dishes?

Cleaning the office is part of your duties in the workplace. If you don't do them, as with any other part of your job, you can get asked to leave by the rest of your officemates if you insist on being antisocial. It won't change your life in any material way, since you'll still have food and shelter and amenities, but you're going to run out of places to find fulfilling work or friends real fast if you insist on being a dick.

[Australian rePublic]

Of course not. At the very heterosexual steel mill, we get each other all sudsy and wash them together.

Your steel mill is sounding more and more fictious

Cleaning the office is part of your duties in the workplace. If you don't do them, as with any other part of your job, you can get asked to leave by the rest of your officemates if you insist on being antisocial. It won't change your life in any material way, since you'll still have food and shelter and amenities, but you're going to run out of places to find fulfilling work or friends real fast if you insist on being a dick.

Also one more time for the dummies. John and Jessica have different standards of what's consideres cleanliness. You still haven't addressed this. Also, if Bob's a dick, why would he care about fulfilling work. Also, I can not stress this enough, work is a terrible place to look for friends. If you can't find friends outside of work, that's not a good thing. I have plenty of friends and have met none of them at work. Why are you ignoring this? Also, everyone is worse off when you have to spend your break time cleaning up, and the janitor has lost his job

[Umeria]

Also one more time for the dummies. John and Jessica have different standards of what's consideres cleanliness. You still haven't addressed this. Also, if Bob's a dick, why would he care about fulfilling work. Also, I can not stress this enough, work is a terrible place to look for friends. If you can't find friends outside of work, that's not a good thing. I have plenty of friends and have met none of them at work. Why are you ignoring this? Also, everyone is worse off when you have to spend your break time cleaning up, and the janitor has lost his job

Pretty sure the steel mill is supposed to represent the entire society, not just one workplace. So making friends "at work" would in this case mean making friends in general, by doing work. The underlying motivation is some general social consensus.

In my opinion this consensus would make some different decisions than what they're implying here, but whatever.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Why did Erich Honecker have six different limousines from even Western car-makers
Was he - to excuse the French - a champagne communist?

[Esternial]

This makes no sense.

I don't know how it makes no sense to you, but okay mr. Phoenicia lover 2000

Let's not. Thanks.

[The Vooperian Union]

Communism on itself is eh, but anarcho-communism absolutely works and is the key to our future.

[Nilokeras]

Why did Erich Honecker have six different limousines from even Western car-makers
Was he - to excuse the French - a champagne communist?

How many cars does President Biden use? The answer is probably 'a lot', and not because Biden is some sort of car hoarder.

EDIT: From The Independent, one of the the only sources I can find about this:

Seven Volvo stretch limousines once used by former Communist East Germany's politburo are up for auction at a fraction of their original price after being left virtually untouched for 13 years.

...

The limousines were part of a huge fleet that included a Range Rover and a Soviet Zil limousine that ferried Mikhail Gorbachev about on a visit to East Berlin weeks before Mr Honecker was toppled from power in 1989. Mr Honecker was only once able to show the vehicles off to his wealthy capitalist neighbours in 1987, during his first and only visit to West Germany. After unification the cars were bought by Hilfried Schoenberger, an eccentric west German millionaire, for about €125,000.

Like these seem, by all accounts, to have been state cars. I don't know why people pretend to lose 50 IQ points and score points over something like this.

[American Legionaries]

Also one more time for the dummies. John and Jessica have different standards of what's consideres cleanliness. You still haven't addressed this. Also, if Bob's a dick, why would he care about fulfilling work. Also, I can not stress this enough, work is a terrible place to look for friends. If you can't find friends outside of work, that's not a good thing. I have plenty of friends and have met none of them at work. Why are you ignoring this? Also, everyone is worse off when you have to spend your break time cleaning up, and the janitor has lost his job

Pretty sure the steel mill is supposed to represent the entire society, not just one workplace. So making friends "at work" would in this case mean making friends in general, by doing work. The underlying motivation is some general social consensus.

In my opinion this consensus would make some different decisions than what they're implying here, but whatever.

Sounds like it'd be more cool to just not work, and make friends with the other people who don't work.

[Exarkyon]

I believe that private property is a right that workers, just like everybody else, possess. Also, I believe utopia is not possible in this world. You can make the world better by making people behave better, but the world cannot be perfect because it is fundamentally impossible to get everyone to behave perfectly. One cannot even get oneself to behave perfectly, no matter how much one would like it.

Communism is the abolition of private property, and it promises utopia on this earth. It also doesn't harness an evil force (greed) for the betterment of society as in capitalism; instead it supposes to brute-force its way past this problem. People will always be greedy. From the free-rider problem, to the people responsible for distributing everything being biased towards themselves and their friends, to the possibility of another revolution from workers who want more for themselves, communism has a lot of unaddressed problems with no clear solutions (remember, communism promises a stateless society, so laws are not an option!).

Capitalism is far from perfect, though. The concerns raised by communism about the exploitation of workers are quite valid; they diagnosed a real problem, but they dreamt up a terrible anti-solution. The real solution, I think, to some of capitalism's flaws is government regulation. Terrible working conditions? Regulate it. Unfair wages? Regulate it. Attempts to suppress unions? Regulate it. The perfect solution to all of these problems is to get people to stop being stupid, to be better people. But there's no system, economic, governmental, or otherwise, that can force that.

[Xenon Prime]

I have not read the replies because there are a lot so what I say might have been said by someone else but I view communism as a type of religion in that there is this perfect system talked about by the true believers and despite proof that it doesn't work true believers don't care. Also when people criticize the act of a religious person the reply will be " They were not a real christian,muslim,buddhist etc" while communists also say that communist countries that failed were not real communists.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

I don't know how it makes no sense to you, but okay mr. Phoenicia lover 2000

And how do one's showering habits influence their opinions on communism or the natural order?

You're (as described by yourself), a white ethnonationalist who wants an ethnostate. Don't you lecture me about "the 'natural order'..." when you yourself subscribe to fringe theories. There is no "natural order". And if there is, I do not subscribe to it because humanity is entirely about rejecting the natural order, fucking it up, and then fucking it even more because humanity does whatever it wants.

If you were in this fictional "natural order" you subscribe to, you would not survive. Of course neither would I, but at least I am aware of that fact and embrace it.

[Exarkyon]

I have not read the replies because there are a lot so what I say might have been said by someone else but I view communism as a type of religion in that there is this perfect system talked about by the true believers and despite proof that it doesn't work true believers don't care. Also when people criticize the act of a religious person the reply will be " They were not a real christian,muslim,buddhist etc" while communists also say that communist countries that failed were not real communists.

It's true that those failures did not actually enact communism as it was described, though. Communism calls for the complete abolition of the state and money, and all "communist" countries so far have had both. To say they were not truly communist is completely fair.

The problems with communism lie elsewhere. Communism denies the human right to private property and is just completely impossible to implement. Any attempt at "true communism" is going to fail. We can't point at the failed attempts, look at the flaws of those, and act like those are flaws of communism itself. We have to look at the world communists want to create and show the flaws in it. We show how the system communism is supposed to run on doesn't work, even if implemented perfectly.

[Kubra]

I believe that private property is a right that workers, just like everybody else, possess. Also, I believe utopia is not possible in this world. You can make the world better by making people behave better, but the world cannot be perfect because it is fundamentally impossible to get everyone to behave perfectly. One cannot even get oneself to behave perfectly, no matter how much one would like it.

Communism is the abolition of private property, and it promises utopia on this earth. It also doesn't harness an evil force (greed) for the betterment of society as in capitalism; instead it supposes to brute-force its way past this problem. People will always be greedy. From the free-rider problem, to the people responsible for distributing everything being biased towards themselves and their friends, to the possibility of another revolution from workers who want more for themselves, communism has a lot of unaddressed problems with no clear solutions (remember, communism promises a stateless society, so laws are not an option!).

Capitalism is far from perfect, though. The concerns raised by communism about the exploitation of workers are quite valid; they diagnosed a real problem, but they dreamt up a terrible anti-solution. The real solution, I think, to some of capitalism's flaws is government regulation. Terrible working conditions? Regulate it. Unfair wages? Regulate it. Attempts to suppress unions? Regulate it. The perfect solution to all of these problems is to get people to stop being stupid, to be better people. But there's no system, economic, governmental, or otherwise, that can force that.

Ok so how far can we regulate it
How many miles can we take

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

I have not read the replies because there are a lot so what I say might have been said by someone else but I view communism as a type of religion in that there is this perfect system talked about by the true believers and despite proof that it doesn't work true believers don't care. Also when people criticize the act of a religious person the reply will be " They were not a real christian,muslim,buddhist etc" while communists also say that communist countries that failed were not real communists.

It's true that those failures did not actually enact communism as it was described, though. Communism calls for the complete abolition of the state and money, and all "communist" countries so far have had both. To say they were not truly communist is completely fair.

The problems with communism lie elsewhere. Communism denies the human right to private property and is just completely impossible to implement. Any attempt at "true communism" is going to fail. We can't point at the failed attempts, look at the flaws of those, and act like those are flaws of communism itself. We have to look at the world communists want to create and show the flaws in it. We show how the system communism is supposed to run on doesn't work, even if implemented perfectly.

Private property is not a human right. The closest thing as defined by the United Nations is "property"

Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

"Property" can refer to a variety of different things, not just private property. Private property by the way, is not your house or your computer or your iPhone. It's the factories, farms, businesses and enterprises that the bourgeois' run, and no, you will never be rich enough to buy or run any of them.
"Arbitrarily", by the way, has never applied to any communist regime (the Khmer Rouge was not communist, if you want to go down that road then go ahead) by definition alone. Property was not taken away (translation: nationalized and redistributed) from the Kulaks because of Stalin's personal whim- it was "taken away" because that's how socialism is intended to work: publicizing the means of production and removing it from the hands of a few private groups and individuals.
Using "Communist countries still had a state and money!" is not an argument because it misses the entire point of communism. Communism is not about abolishing the state, class system and money immediately because that is impossible. The state is not abolished, it simply fades away with time and inevitably the state is gone. This happens over a long period of time and cannot happen instantaneously. Think of like how you used to have something that you used a lot, and gradually over time you started using it less and less until eventually you just stopped using it all-together.

The abolition of money is the same thing: without currency the internal and external economies of countries collapse because a non-socialist (and non-communist) economy is built around the imaginary idea that a piece of glorified cloth-paper is worth something. Money gradually loses its purpose in the construction of socialism and communism as people are able to produce things so efficiently and easily that scarcity is rare and so trying to assign a price tag to something that one could produce so cheaply and so easily that it would make no sense using currency in the first place.

Once again there is no such thing as "perfect". No self-respecting communist says "perfect communist" and again no actual communist says "That wasn't real communism" or "We haven't tried real communism yet". That's a boogeyman living rent free in your head.

[Drongonia]

And how do one's showering habits influence their opinions on communism or the natural order?

You're (as described by yourself), a white ethnonationalist who wants an ethnostate. Don't you lecture me about "the 'natural order'..." when you yourself subscribe to fringe theories. There is no "natural order". And if there is, I do not subscribe to it because humanity is entirely about rejecting the natural order, fucking it up, and then fucking it even more because humanity does whatever it wants.

If you were in this fictional "natural order" you subscribe to, you would not survive. Of course neither would I, but at least I am aware of that fact and embrace it.

You didn't really answer my question though, did you?

No self-respecting communist says "perfect communist" and again no actual communist says "That wasn't real communism" or "We haven't tried real communism yet". That's a boogeyman living rent free in your head.

That's a lie. There have been multiple cases of that in this very thread and others on NationStates, unless you'd like to be the authoritative figure on who is and isn't a communist, and brand those people "not real communists".

[Kubra]

You're (as described by yourself), a white ethnonationalist who wants an ethnostate. Don't you lecture me about "the 'natural order'..." when you yourself subscribe to fringe theories. There is no "natural order". And if there is, I do not subscribe to it because humanity is entirely about rejecting the natural order, fucking it up, and then fucking it even more because humanity does whatever it wants.

If you were in this fictional "natural order" you subscribe to, you would not survive. Of course neither would I, but at least I am aware of that fact and embrace it.

You didn't really answer my question though, did you?

No self-respecting communist says "perfect communist" and again no actual communist says "That wasn't real communism" or "We haven't tried real communism yet". That's a boogeyman living rent free in your head.

That's a lie. There have been multiple cases of that in this very thread and others on NationStates, unless you'd like to be the authoritative figure on who is and isn't a communist, and brand those people "not real communists".

Oh ok
show us them itt then