What do you think of Communism

[Ifreann]

Equating communism and fascism and what the Nazis did is straight up holocaust revisionism.

Depending on whose numbers you use, there were between 10 and 148 million killed by Communist regimes. Again, depending on the criteria used, fascist regimes, primarily Nazi Germany, killed around 13 million. So, equating Communist regimes to the Nazi ones is not that far out of line as, at the least, they only killed 3 million less, and at most, they killed 14 times as many.

Of course, some of those numbers infamously count Nazi soldiers among the "victims of communism".

[Great Britain eke Northern Ireland]

All meaningful attempts at Communism have resulted in tyranny, murder, and exploitation, as Naziism did. The Catalan Communists and Spanish Republicans committed atrocities and murders across their controlled territory, especially against men and women of the clergy, desecrated holy places, and terrorised anyone whom stood against them, just as the Russians did, just as the Chinese do, just as the Cambodians did, just as the Korean Communists did, just as Communists everywhere have done or would do had they the power.

Communism and Naziism are equal ideologies of tyranny and murder with no belief in the inherent value of men, nor of sanctity, nor of peace and democracy. They never have, and never will.

Many of the Catalan Communists massacred the clergy because the clergy supported the nationalist fascists, who in turn wanted to exterminate them. […]

That doesn’t justify their actions. The clergy were victims as much as anyone, and the Communists and Republicans together despised them and wished them exterminated. Even without the Civil War, they would’ve been suppressing the clergy and native religion of Spain because it threatened their authority and power over the people.

[…] The USSR, Chinese, Koreans, and Spanish Republicans were state capitalists under the facade of socialism/communism. […]

They were Communists. No True Scotsman doesn’t give them a pass.

[…] Just see how enterprises there, despite being owned or having significant state influence, still function completely for profit, and workers have no control.

The means of production were seized by vanguardist Communists and enterprises served the desires of the worker’s state, which perpetrated countless atrocities upon those suffering under their reign of terror.

[…] For countries to commit many violent acts like that is found everywhere throughout history, regardless of ideology (eg. The USA supporting borderline fascist dictatorships like Suharto in Indonesia or Pinochet in Chile). The only difference is that fascism and nazism directly puts murdering people as part of their ideology, making it evil by nature.

Murder is part of Communist ideology as well. The Communist is called to overthrow and kill the Capitalist, monarchs, traditional religion (and clergy). The destruction of traditional society and thus the severing of historic continuity, castration of culture, and elimination of the freedom to succeed or fall are core tenets of Communism and has been acted upon by every Communist tyrant.

The fact you think socialism cannot be democratic is proof you don’t even know the definition of socialism.

The literary definition means nothing when all the adherents of Communism have shown what Communism truly is and what it brings: nought but tyranny, murder, and suffering.

[Primitive Communism]

The literary definition means nothing when all the adherents of Communism have shown what Communism truly is and what it brings: nought but tyranny, murder, and suffering.

I would appreciate it if anti-Communists would stop pretending like they care about oppression at the hands of the state when they so willingly and regularly look the other way when their precious free market capitalist liberal democracies are inflicting death and suffering on working people every day.

[Rusticus I Damianus]

Is this the "if you're not a Communist you're a Nazi" comeback, or what?

It's "if you think communism is worse than the holocaust, then you musn't think Jewish lives are worth all that much.

Thinking a group is more evil cause it killed more people then another group = I think Jewish lives are worth less somehow.

No, it means I hate one group cause they killed 10 people and I also hate another group because they either also killed 10 people or 11 people, etc, etc. Communists killed more people than Nazis so therefore as far as I'm concerned are just as evil if not moreso than the Nazis. It has nothing to do with devaluing people, but everything to do with holding those groups to the same moral standards and treating them likewise for the sake of justice being done on behalf of the victims of those evil ideologies, as well as their perpetrators.

[Rusticus I Damianus]

The literary definition means nothing when all the adherents of Communism have shown what Communism truly is and what it brings: nought but tyranny, murder, and suffering.

I would appreciate it if anti-Communists would stop pretending like they care about oppression at the hands of the state when they so willingly and regularly look the other way when their precious free market capitalist liberal democracies are inflicting death and suffering on working people every day.

I don't recall the last time McDonald's employees executed people for eating at Burger King so I'm not sure what you mean by inflicting death and suffering apon people, or how what the Free Market is doing is somehow worst then the millions of bodies that the Communists have stacked in their time.

[Primitive Communism]

I would appreciate it if anti-Communists would stop pretending like they care about oppression at the hands of the state when they so willingly and regularly look the other way when their precious free market capitalist liberal democracies are inflicting death and suffering on working people every day.

I don't recall the last time McDonald's employees executed people for eating at Burger King so I'm not sure what you mean by inflicting death and suffering apon people, or how what the Free Market is doing is somehow worst then the millions of bodies that the Communists have stacked in their time.

Slave labor in privately owned prisons for the benefit of the state and private owners, innocent people executed by a state which knows it's justice system is imperfect yet permits capital punishment anyway, rapists walking free from convictions on technicalities, murder of racial minorities by law enforcement bordering on genocide, overseas torture camps in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, the Bengal Famine, the Irish Potato Famine, Scramble for Africa, Colonization of the Americas, overthrow of democratically elected governments during the Cold War, the Great Depression, Invasion of Iraq under false pretenses to the benefit of oil companies, man-made climate change, propping up mass-murdering dictators simply because they're pro-West, millions starving and destitute throughout the US, racialized slavery, lynchings of blacks throughout the Jim Crow Era, propping up apartheid Israel, ignoring Azeri genocide of Armenians for the sake of gas shipments, raping of Okinawan women during American occupation, chemical warfare during WWI, intentional bombing of civilian population centers during WWII, Japanese in concentration camps during WWII, migrants in concentration camps along the US-Mexico border, French interference into African domestic affairs, child labor in coal mines in the late 1800s, the various drafts enacted during major war times, pushing newly-independent Haiti into debt to repatriate French slavers for the loss of their "property", wars of extermination against Amerindian tribes up until 1910, the modern concentration camps in which Amerindians are currently held etc.

I could really go on because this doesn't even scratch the surface of the crimes committed by capitalist regimes, often for the sake of profit, which have led to untold and unnecessary suffering and death. If you want to play the numbers game then capitalism is the single most bloody ideology there is. The crimes of the USA, UK, and France alone dwarf any pathetic "300 million dead" you people insist on griping about. Capitalism has spent several centuries inflicting war and destitution on the global population, both at home and abroad, due to intentional acts of malice or apathy in the interest of accumulating greater fortunes for the already fortunate. Even if you tried to lump in the crimes of Fascist states (who have more in common with you than with us) the crimes of Communist figures, governments, and movements still pale in comparison to what capitalist states have done. Capitalist Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine right now. Capitalist China is waging genocide against Uyghurs, Mongols, Tibetans, Hmong, and Manchus right now while threatening to invade Taiwan and violate it's right to self-determination and provoking violence with India. And yes, those countries belong in your corner. They're Right-wing regimes; just like yours. They're on your side - the side of capital.

Communists wade in blood; Capitalists swim in it. Your fraudulent moralist arguments are nothing but empty projection. Capitalism is destroying the planet and ruining billions of lives in the process. It is an existential threat to human civilization.

[The Astral Mandate]

I don't recall the last time McDonald's employees executed people for eating at Burger King so I'm not sure what you mean by inflicting death and suffering apon people, or how what the Free Market is doing is somehow worst then the millions of bodies that the Communists have stacked in their time.

Slave labor in privately owned prisons for the benefit of the state and private owners, innocent people executed by a state which knows it's justice system is imperfect yet permits capital punishment anyway, rapists walking free from convictions on technicalities, murder of racial minorities by law enforcement bordering on genocide, overseas torture camps in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, the Bengal Famine, the Irish Potato Famine, Scramble for Africa, Colonization of the Americas, overthrow of democratically elected governments during the Cold War, the Great Depression, Invasion of Iraq under false pretenses to the benefit of oil companies, man-made climate change, propping up mass-murdering dictators simply because they're pro-West, millions starving and destitute throughout the US, racialized slavery, lynchings of blacks throughout the Jim Crow Era, propping up apartheid Israel, ignoring Azeri genocide of Armenians for the sake of gas shipments, raping of Okinawan women during American occupation, chemical warfare during WWI, intentional bombing of civilian population centers during WWII, Japanese in concentration camps during WWII, migrants in concentration camps along the US-Mexico border, French interference into African domestic affairs, child labor in coal mines in the late 1800s, the various drafts enacted during major war times, pushing newly-independent Haiti into debt to repatriate French slavers for the loss of their "property", wars of extermination against Amerindian tribes up until 1910, the modern concentration camps in which Amerindians are currently held etc.

I could really go on because this doesn't even scratch the surface of the crimes committed by capitalist regimes, often for the sake of profit, which have led to untold and unnecessary suffering and death. If you want to play the numbers game then capitalism is the single most bloody ideology there is. The crimes of the USA, UK, and France alone dwarf any pathetic "300 million dead" you people insist on griping about. Capitalism has spent several centuries inflicting war and destitution on the global population, both at home and abroad, due to intentional acts of malice or apathy in the interest of accumulating greater fortunes for the already fortunate. Even if you tried to lump in the crimes of Fascist states (who have more in common with you than with us) the crimes of Communist figures, governments, and movements still pale in comparison to what capitalist states have done. Capitalist Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine right now. Capitalist China is waging genocide against Uyghurs, Mongols, Tibetans, Hmong, and Manchus right now while threatening to invade Taiwan and violate it's right to self-determination and provoking violence with India. And yes, those countries belong in your corner. They're Right-wing regimes; just like yours. They're on your side - the side of capital.

Communists wade in blood; Capitalists swim in it. Your fraudulent moralist arguments are nothing but empty projection. Capitalism is destroying the planet and ruining billions of lives in the process. It is an existential threat to human civilization.

How much blood is on the hands of, say, social democrats? Democratic socialists? The ones who decided not to follow any one path?
And don't try the "BuT iTs FaScIsM!!!" argument.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... abling-act
Last sentence of second paragraph.
(I do agree with your point, though. Laissez-faire capitalism is dangerous.)

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Slave labor in privately owned prisons for the benefit of the state and private owners, innocent people executed by a state which knows it's justice system is imperfect yet permits capital punishment anyway, rapists walking free from convictions on technicalities, murder of racial minorities by law enforcement bordering on genocide, overseas torture camps in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, the Bengal Famine, the Irish Potato Famine, Scramble for Africa, Colonization of the Americas, overthrow of democratically elected governments during the Cold War, the Great Depression, Invasion of Iraq under false pretenses to the benefit of oil companies, man-made climate change, propping up mass-murdering dictators simply because they're pro-West, millions starving and destitute throughout the US, racialized slavery, lynchings of blacks throughout the Jim Crow Era, propping up apartheid Israel, ignoring Azeri genocide of Armenians for the sake of gas shipments, raping of Okinawan women during American occupation, chemical warfare during WWI, intentional bombing of civilian population centers during WWII, Japanese in concentration camps during WWII, migrants in concentration camps along the US-Mexico border, French interference into African domestic affairs, child labor in coal mines in the late 1800s, the various drafts enacted during major war times, pushing newly-independent Haiti into debt to repatriate French slavers for the loss of their "property", wars of extermination against Amerindian tribes up until 1910, the modern concentration camps in which Amerindians are currently held etc.

I could really go on because this doesn't even scratch the surface of the crimes committed by capitalist regimes, often for the sake of profit, which have led to untold and unnecessary suffering and death. If you want to play the numbers game then capitalism is the single most bloody ideology there is. The crimes of the USA, UK, and France alone dwarf any pathetic "300 million dead" you people insist on griping about. Capitalism has spent several centuries inflicting war and destitution on the global population, both at home and abroad, due to intentional acts of malice or apathy in the interest of accumulating greater fortunes for the already fortunate. Even if you tried to lump in the crimes of Fascist states (who have more in common with you than with us) the crimes of Communist figures, governments, and movements still pale in comparison to what capitalist states have done. Capitalist Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine right now. Capitalist China is waging genocide against Uyghurs, Mongols, Tibetans, Hmong, and Manchus right now while threatening to invade Taiwan and violate it's right to self-determination and provoking violence with India. And yes, those countries belong in your corner. They're Right-wing regimes; just like yours. They're on your side - the side of capital.

Communists wade in blood; Capitalists swim in it. Your fraudulent moralist arguments are nothing but empty projection. Capitalism is destroying the planet and ruining billions of lives in the process. It is an existential threat to human civilization.

How much blood is on the hands of, say, social democrats? Democratic socialists? The ones who decided not to follow any one path?
And don't try the "BuT iTs FaScIsM!!!" argument.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... abling-act
Last sentence of second paragraph.

I think, with maybe the exception of totalitarian hellscapes where the regime decides what you think... the United States is the only country on the planet where social democrats can be equated to fucking hitlerism

[Ifreann]

I would appreciate it if anti-Communists would stop pretending like they care about oppression at the hands of the state when they so willingly and regularly look the other way when their precious free market capitalist liberal democracies are inflicting death and suffering on working people every day.

I don't recall the last time McDonald's employees executed people for eating at Burger King so I'm not sure what you mean by inflicting death and suffering apon people, or how what the Free Market is doing is somehow worst then the millions of bodies that the Communists have stacked in their time.

How many people die every day for want of food, water, shelter, or medicine? Every one of them was killed by capitalism. We have more than enough of all these things for everyone to get what they need, but our economic system doesn't care about what people need, it cares about money.

[Rusticus I Damianus]

I don't recall the last time McDonald's employees executed people for eating at Burger King so I'm not sure what you mean by inflicting death and suffering apon people, or how what the Free Market is doing is somehow worst then the millions of bodies that the Communists have stacked in their time.

How many people die every day for want of food, water, shelter, or medicine? Every one of them was killed by capitalism. We have more than enough of all these things for everyone to get what they need, but our economic system doesn't care about what people need, it cares about money.

If people are hungry then go feed them.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

How many people die every day for want of food, water, shelter, or medicine? Every one of them was killed by capitalism. We have more than enough of all these things for everyone to get what they need, but our economic system doesn't care about what people need, it cares about money.

If people are hungry then go feed them.

With brioche right?

[Rusticus I Damianus]

If people are hungry then go feed them.

With brioche right?

Whatever you have.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

How many people die every day for want of food, water, shelter, or medicine? Every one of them was killed by capitalism. We have more than enough of all these things for everyone to get what they need, but our economic system doesn't care about what people need, it cares about money.

If people are hungry then go feed them.

Any criticism of anything is invalid.

[The Astral Mandate]

With brioche right?

Whatever you have.

If only the solution was this simple.
Unfortunately, not enough people actually do this.

[Rusticus I Damianus]

Whatever you have.

If only the solution was this simple.
Unfortunately, not enough people actually do this.

So you'll sit and do nothing for anyone while complaining that the "system" isn't helping them and saying we need a different system to help them particularly one where you still won't actually doing anything yourself.

Your criticisms are with the Human condition, Humanity's bad nature and the fact that we live in a fallen world that can never be fixed, and stemmed more from envy against those that have more then you then anything truly humanitarian, ethical, or practical.

[Ifreann]

How many people die every day for want of food, water, shelter, or medicine? Every one of them was killed by capitalism. We have more than enough of all these things for everyone to get what they need, but our economic system doesn't care about what people need, it cares about money.

If people are hungry then go feed them.

You asked about the deaths caused by capitalism. There you are.

[Unogonduria]

I personally don't have any problem with some people owning private businesses, but I do think public spaces - especially streets, parks, sport arenas, (most) schools, etc. should be owned by the government.

[The Astral Mandate]

I personally don't have any problem with some people owning private businesses, but I do think public spaces - especially streets, parks, sport arenas, (most) schools, etc. should be owned by the government.

But the people will have a say in how they're run, right?
Also, your motto is awesome.

[Urkennalaid]

If people are hungry then go feed them.

You asked about the deaths caused by capitalism. There you are.

People will excuse deaths caused by capitalism. If you bring up various famines or depressions, they'll say it wasn't actually capitalism. Meanwhile, as a communist, I know plenty of shit that communist governments have done wrong. Like ACTUALLY, from a historical analysis and not "100 million dead venuezela iphone"

[Duvniask]

They were Communists. No True Scotsman doesn’t give them a pass.

99% of the time "No True Scotsman" is brought up, it's by someone who doesn't know shit about how the fallacy works. Case in point.

[Cetaros]

[Khardsland]

They were Communists. No True Scotsman doesn’t give them a pass.

99% of the time "No True Scotsman" is brought up, it's by someone who doesn't know shit about how the fallacy works. Case in point.

Facts. How many times does one need to explain that a communist and socialist society are two very radically different things?

[HISPIDA]

99% of the time "No True Scotsman" is brought up, it's by someone who doesn't know shit about how the fallacy works. Case in point.

Facts. How many times does one need to explain that a communist and socialist society are two very radically different things?

communism and socialism are synonyms. the dictatorship of the proletariat is separate from communism.

[Rocky Mountain Collective]

If you take the christian principle of sufferings redemptive power literally. It is the most backward ideology one can think up, being based on resentment and political self-mutilation. As if cutting down the tree to save it from a few sickly branches solves anything at all. The USSR is one example of this spectacular failure

[Betoni]

If people are hungry then go feed them.

You asked about the deaths caused by capitalism. There you are.

Those are actually caused by the failure of cummunists to do anything about it. They afterall have a better system figured out, but are utterly failing to act on it.