NATION

PASSWORD

My Vote Doesn't Matter

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs
Attaché
 
Posts: 93
Founded: Mar 29, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:32 am

I mean, if you think your vote doesn't matter, you can just not vote.
I dont really post, im mostly just watching threads.

User avatar
Floofybit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 882
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:33 am

Untecna wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Everyone is griping about how bad democracy is, but can someone give me a better system? Like seriously, what would you rather have? A dictatorship?

An actual democracy would be better than whatever the US calls a "democracy".

You can vote the same as everyone else. Big companies only have one vote per person just like everyone else, so if you're complaining about big companies controlling, maybe you shouldn't let them influence you.
Fluff/Floof Pronouns ОшО
Falls Under The "Canine" Species
Avid Fruit Addict
Favourite Colour Is Tangerine (FF9966)
Favourite Animal Is West Highland Terrier
ЦшЦ
Foxlington News
Fruit addiction terrorises Floofybits, no known cure has been found | Man purchases too much tangerine juice and goes bankrupt but highballed people and is now a millionaire | Woman arrested for having "too many favourite colours" and will be released in 2034. | Peachton man identiies as a kumquat, watch his story
(My fruit addiction is almost definitely back)
Buy my chocolate here!
"Gotta be some Disneyland style utopia for either people and dogs or... anthropomorphic animals."

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:33 am

Floofybit wrote:
Untecna wrote:An actual democracy would be better than whatever the US calls a "democracy".

You can vote the same as everyone else. Big companies only have one vote per person just like everyone else, so if you're complaining about big companies controlling, maybe you shouldn't let them influence you.

it's big money controlling the government that's sticking in my craw
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Khuzkia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Aug 27, 2022
Corporate Police State

Postby Khuzkia » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:35 am

Untecna wrote:
Floofybit wrote:Everyone is griping about how bad democracy is, but can someone give me a better system? Like seriously, what would you rather have? A dictatorship?

An actual democracy would be better than whatever the US calls a "democracy".


Yeah. The US is a democracy in practice, but not a democracy in the way a democracy is intended to be: where each citizen can have their voices and views represented and heard in some way or another. A two-party system negates this by consolidating wide and varying viewpoints into two arbitrary camps.
A wacky semi-Eastern European dystopian country ruled by a corporate conflagration under an AI known as ANGPO.
An alt nation of Gepanzerberg, as well as The Bohemian Society
Founder and executive of Los Osos

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1126
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:36 am

Sordhau wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Not voting doesn't solve that problem.


And neither does voting.


I believe you are wrong about that.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

User avatar
Untecna
Senator
 
Posts: 4102
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Untecna » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:36 am

Floofybit wrote:
Untecna wrote:An actual democracy would be better than whatever the US calls a "democracy".

You can vote the same as everyone else. Big companies only have one vote per person just like everyone else, so if you're complaining about big companies controlling, maybe you shouldn't let them influence you.

...so if you haven't noticed, companies can't vote like citizens (though they can act like people in other ways, which is beyond stupid).

More of the complaint I come to is on the Electoral College. Yes, I completely disagree with corporations and the rich having political influence under the current system, but when it comes to voting my issue is more on why we still have that damned Electoral College.

Also, "Maybe you shouldn't let the companies control you" is an odd statement to make, because lobbying by companies affects us, but unless we are in legislature we can't do anything about it... and our politicians make plenty of money from that practice. The effects come to us, but we can't just choose to have it on or off.
Californian

Dragon with internet access

Unironically still in NSG discussions, now turned to slight shitposting to make it fun for everyone else me and me only.

I'm queer

Heloin's, perhaps, unwanted accountant

Don't use my old posts to judge me, I was cringe af

Naan Violence, y'all.

Political Beliefs
TL;DR: I'm a democratic socialist. Surprise Surprise, I don't support genocide or violence.

Go 49rs

Untecna wrote:No, and you can talk to my dragon lawyers if you dragon want me to dragon shut up.

Hemakral wrote:damn bro that wall so thick kool-aid man couldn't bust through

[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.

User avatar
Sordhau
Minister
 
Posts: 2994
Founded: Nov 24, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sordhau » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:37 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
And neither does voting.


I believe you are wrong about that.


And you're wrong to do so.
| ☆ | ☭ | In Solidarity with the Peoples of Taiwan, Ukraine, and Armenia | In Opposition of the Imperialists in Beijing, Moscow, and Baku | ☭ | ☆ |

She/Her
Jennifer/Jenny
My Politics
About Me

User avatar
Christian Confederation
Senator
 
Posts: 3806
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Christian Confederation » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:39 am

The thing is America is a Constitutional Republic with Democratic Elections not a Democracy. Which is why when Politicians claim there's a "Threat to our Democracy!" They don't mean me and you going about our lives like normal people, they mean a threat to them and their power. Currently there are two systems fighting for control of the US; The Constitutional Republic and the Multicultural Democracy, two systems that cannot coexist in the same nation. Which is why I vote and encourage my fellow Americans to educate themselves about our systems and use your right to preserve our Republic for future generations.
Founder of the moderate alliance
Open to new members, and embassy's.
My telagram box is always open for productive conversation.
IRL political views center right/ right.

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6672
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:42 am

Chan Island wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:And nobody's vote matters very much when the candidates and policies people vote for are all chosen by corporations through political parties.

In the US we also have gerrymandering, the Electoral College, and the Senate to make things unequal.


You sound like San Lumen.

No political party of any significance is going to listen to a communist, and I don't have the money to make them do what I say. I can do some stuff to make a political impact, but voting and partisanship don't work.


And San Lumen would be correct on this.

Who's to say? Party memberships in big political parties are pretty diverse- you never know until you try. Besides, you could help build up a currently small communist party to become significant. You could agitate for and promote communist priorities separate from the ideology as a whole. Your donations may be too small for national politicians, but what about your local ones?

American Legionaries wrote:
You may want to double check this conclusion before presenting it as "evidence"

Normalcy is irrelevant. And, judging by the number of wars that humanity has engaged in I question even the claim that aversion to war is "normal".

I stated that voting doesn't get me what I want. It would seem to follow from this claim that I do vote, or else how would I know it isn't working?


1) Oh, I'm sorry, how am I supposed to interpret phrases like "So that's why I don't vote" then?

2) "Given how many people are in prison for bestiality, I'd question that aversion to bestiality is normal."

3) Ditto for 1.


Did I ever say that?

These things are hardly comparable.

Indeed, Ditto for 1...

User avatar
Floofybit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 882
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:48 am

Sordhau wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
I believe you are wrong about that.


And you're wrong to do so.

Your opinion is wrong >:(

You can't just go around saying your wrong without anything behind it. Both voting and not voting mean something. Voting gives you one small step closer to winning and not voting gives you one small step closer to losing. While one person is not much, it adds up. If you, your family, your neighborhood, and so forth don't vote, that's a few thousands votes off and a good chance of losing.
Fluff/Floof Pronouns ОшО
Falls Under The "Canine" Species
Avid Fruit Addict
Favourite Colour Is Tangerine (FF9966)
Favourite Animal Is West Highland Terrier
ЦшЦ
Foxlington News
Fruit addiction terrorises Floofybits, no known cure has been found | Man purchases too much tangerine juice and goes bankrupt but highballed people and is now a millionaire | Woman arrested for having "too many favourite colours" and will be released in 2034. | Peachton man identiies as a kumquat, watch his story
(My fruit addiction is almost definitely back)
Buy my chocolate here!
"Gotta be some Disneyland style utopia for either people and dogs or... anthropomorphic animals."

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:48 am

Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:48 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
And neither does voting.


I believe you are wrong about that.

in the last 10 years, identify a problem that was solved by voting.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1126
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:49 am

Sordhau wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
I believe you are wrong about that.


And you're wrong to do so.


I know I have no evidence to prove it either way. I doubt you have any either, though feel free to provide some. All I can say is that not voting definitely does nothing about it, whereas I believe voting could.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

User avatar
Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs
Attaché
 
Posts: 93
Founded: Mar 29, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:49 am

Des-Bal wrote:Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.


Sadly 3rd parties basically never win US elections, so what's the point? There are too many people that already support the 2 major parties for there to be a successful 3rd party.
I dont really post, im mostly just watching threads.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:50 am

Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.


Sadly 3rd parties basically never win US elections, so what's the point? There are too many people that already support the 2 major parties for there to be a successful 3rd party.

which is also why proportional representation will never be implemented
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Floofybit
Diplomat
 
Posts: 882
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:50 am

Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.


Sadly 3rd parties basically never win US elections, so what's the point? There are too many people that already support the 2 major parties for there to be a successful 3rd party.

It gets the message across. The two want your vote so they wil change to accompany your third party views
Fluff/Floof Pronouns ОшО
Falls Under The "Canine" Species
Avid Fruit Addict
Favourite Colour Is Tangerine (FF9966)
Favourite Animal Is West Highland Terrier
ЦшЦ
Foxlington News
Fruit addiction terrorises Floofybits, no known cure has been found | Man purchases too much tangerine juice and goes bankrupt but highballed people and is now a millionaire | Woman arrested for having "too many favourite colours" and will be released in 2034. | Peachton man identiies as a kumquat, watch his story
(My fruit addiction is almost definitely back)
Buy my chocolate here!
"Gotta be some Disneyland style utopia for either people and dogs or... anthropomorphic animals."

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1126
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:52 am

Crysuko wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
I believe you are wrong about that.

in the last 10 years, identify a problem that was solved by voting.


Are you trying to say the day to day work of governments around the world achieves nothing?
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:55 am

Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.


Sadly 3rd parties basically never win US elections, so what's the point? There are too many people that already support the 2 major parties for there to be a successful 3rd party.

Are you serious? I just told you. My entire post was about how voting third party is viable even though they will never win. If your third party gets 2% of the vote that's never going to threaten either of the big parties but when they lose by a thin margin and realize 2% of active voters mostly agree with them except for on a few issues they have to consider how to win your vote.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Khuzkia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Aug 27, 2022
Corporate Police State

Postby Khuzkia » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:57 am

Des-Bal wrote:Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.


More people would vote third party if doing so had visible outcomes (though that's primarily the fault of the system, not the party itself). There are some exceptions, like Jesse Ventura in Minnesota, but those are not the norm. The Democrats, Republicans and the oligarchs that support them know that, by perpetuating neo-tribalism when it comes to party affiliation, the two parties and their business partners can divide and conquer the American people and exploit them for further political and economic power.

I agree with you that voting third party is the best choice, but it's a hard choice for Americans to make, since it means they're being individuals rather than members of political blocs. Ironically, despite being radical individualists, Americans seem to love dividing themselves into arbitrary groupings and defining themselves based on said arbitrary groupings (Note: this is coming from an American).
Last edited by Khuzkia on Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
A wacky semi-Eastern European dystopian country ruled by a corporate conflagration under an AI known as ANGPO.
An alt nation of Gepanzerberg, as well as The Bohemian Society
Founder and executive of Los Osos

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:00 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:in the last 10 years, identify a problem that was solved by voting.


Are you trying to say the day to day work of governments around the world achieves nothing?

not nothing. corruption, sabre rattling and self serving policies are by definition something.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6672
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:01 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs wrote:
Sadly 3rd parties basically never win US elections, so what's the point? There are too many people that already support the 2 major parties for there to be a successful 3rd party.

Are you serious? I just told you. My entire post was about how voting third party is viable even though they will never win. If your third party gets 2% of the vote that's never going to threaten either of the big parties but when they lose by a thin margin and realize 2% of active voters mostly agree with them except for on a few issues they have to consider how to win your vote.


This of course presumes that the victorious party won within a margin where they would need to woo third party voters to ensure victory.

Or that such third parties are even permitted to run...
Last edited by American Legionaries on Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1126
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:03 am

Crysuko wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Are you trying to say the day to day work of governments around the world achieves nothing?

not nothing. corruption, sabre rattling and self serving policies are by definition something.


If the government stopped all activity tomorrow, do you think those are the only things that would cease to happen? You certainly get corruption, sabre rattling and self serving policies from governments that weren't voted for by anyone.
Last edited by Emotional Support Crocodile on Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:12 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:not nothing. corruption, sabre rattling and self serving policies are by definition something.


If the government stopped all activity tomorrow, do you think those are the only things that would cease to happen?

you're trying to spin me a "societal collapse = bad" yarn here, but it's just not working. give people a chance to throw the elites out?

where's my torch and pitchfork?
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6672
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:14 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:not nothing. corruption, sabre rattling and self serving policies are by definition something.


If the government stopped all activity tomorrow, do you think those are the only things that would cease to happen? You certainly get corruption, sabre rattling and self serving policies from governments that weren't voted for by anyone.


They'd also stop putting people in jail.

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1126
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:19 am

Crysuko wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
If the government stopped all activity tomorrow, do you think those are the only things that would cease to happen?

you're trying to spin me a "societal collapse = bad" yarn here, but it's just not working. give people a chance to throw the elites out?

where's my torch and pitchfork?


Societal collapse is probably not as much fun as young adult fiction makes out. Elites don't get thrown out, they just get replaced by another elite.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Duvniask, NatIon ExE 1, The Foxes Swamp, Valyxias

Advertisement

Remove ads