My Vote Doesn't Matter

[The Black Forrest]

Does my vote matter? It’s the wrong question.

The effort is about discouraging people from voting. It’s better to have only party zealots voting.

[Andronya]

I still vote, but I'm very well aware that in the best of cases what I'm voting for won't happen and in the worst of cases the direct opposite of what I voted for will happen.

[The House of Hamid]

Politics is genetic and people are largely born Red, Blue, Communist, Fascist and so on.

What?!

Could you expand on that idea?

[Czervenika]

Then surely you can point to all the electors from California who were won by Donald Trump

Truth be told, first-past-the-post is an absolutely awful form of democracy.

Where I live we do use first-past-the-post so any votes for anything other than Conservative are literally useless. It's one reason why we so badly need electoral reform.

[Sutekh]

Sorry to jump into your debate. I'm here just to state my view on the situation. I am apolitical in my nation more or less. I do not vote in presidental not parliamentary elections. My reasons for that are: 1. It doesn't matter so much who is the president, because in my nation they have almost no real power. 2. I really feel like my vote doesn't change anything 3. Life has taught me that political solution is not possible. I have absolutely no trust in politicians and the ruling class. I belong to a very rare political minority (based on my school of thought).

With that stated, I do vote in the communal elections (city Mayor election, city hall representatives election) because I feel like at this small scale, some change is still possible and I do trust people in "low politics" as I know many of them personally in my area.

[Existential Cats]

1) Complaining that your vote has no effect and then admitting you don't even vote is laughable. It's like saying that it's impossible to find employment and then admitting you haven't applied anywhere in the last 4 years. You know what doesn't influence the outcomes of elections? Not voting.

Well yes. It's easily possible to find employment. Working as a fast food chef, gigging with Uber, some boring clerical job you despise... Likewise, it's easy to cast a ballot every few years for one of the two parties that suck corporate teat, but ultimately, you're just choosing between two awful options.

Though I guess having a job as a McDonald's cook does grant you the ability to lord it over the unemployed, just as ticking a checkbox every few years grants you the ability to lord your patriotism and commitment to civic duty over those who don't.

If you don't like point 2, fix the real problem. Make your ideas into the cognitive majority by convincing people of their superiority or at least convince them that the alternatives are worse. You can't just expect you to get your way in a democracy without convincing people to support your side, that's not how it works.

Herein lies the problem. America at least is far too polarized for this to happen. Seven out of ten Republicans believe that liberals are orchestrating a Great Replacement. Do you think there is any reasoning with a person who's convinced that non-whites are consciously trying to supplant the white population of America? Democracy is only functional in a population where individuals are open-minded enough to be persuaded to alternate points of view.

It's like that oddly prescient Barry Goldwater quote: "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Americans are becoming sick of compromises, and by association, they're becoming sick of democracy.

[San Lumen]

1) Complaining that your vote has no effect and then admitting you don't even vote is laughable. It's like saying that it's impossible to find employment and then admitting you haven't applied anywhere in the last 4 years. You know what doesn't influence the outcomes of elections? Not voting.

Well yes. It's easily possible to find employment. Working as a fast food chef, gigging with Uber, some boring clerical job you despise... Likewise, it's easy to cast a ballot every few years for one of the two parties that suck corporate teat, but ultimately, you're just choosing between two awful options.

Though I guess having a job as a McDonald's cook does grant you the ability to lord it over the unemployed, just as ticking a checkbox every few years grants you the ability to lord your patriotism and commitment to civic duty over those who don't.

If you don't like point 2, fix the real problem. Make your ideas into the cognitive majority by convincing people of their superiority or at least convince them that the alternatives are worse. You can't just expect you to get your way in a democracy without convincing people to support your side, that's not how it works.

Herein lies the problem. America at least is far too polarized for this to happen. Seven out of ten Republicans believe that liberals are orchestrating a Great Replacement. Do you think there is any reasoning with a person who's convinced that non-whites are consciously trying to supplant the white population of America? Democracy is only functional in a population where individuals are open-minded enough to be persuaded to alternate points of view.

It's like that oddly prescient Barry Goldwater quote: "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Americans are becoming sick of compromises, and by association, they're becoming sick of democracy.

people dont always agree. Unless you want a dictatorship compromise is the only way your going to get anything done.

[American Legionaries]

Well yes. It's easily possible to find employment. Working as a fast food chef, gigging with Uber, some boring clerical job you despise... Likewise, it's easy to cast a ballot every few years for one of the two parties that suck corporate teat, but ultimately, you're just choosing between two awful options.

Though I guess having a job as a McDonald's cook does grant you the ability to lord it over the unemployed, just as ticking a checkbox every few years grants you the ability to lord your patriotism and commitment to civic duty over those who don't.


Herein lies the problem. America at least is far too polarized for this to happen. Seven out of ten Republicans believe that liberals are orchestrating a Great Replacement. Do you think there is any reasoning with a person who's convinced that non-whites are consciously trying to supplant the white population of America? Democracy is only functional in a population where individuals are open-minded enough to be persuaded to alternate points of view.

It's like that oddly prescient Barry Goldwater quote: "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Americans are becoming sick of compromises, and by association, they're becoming sick of democracy.

people dont always agree. Unless you want a dictatorship compromise is the only way your going to get anything done.

Dictatorship it is, then.

[Existential Cats]

Well yes. It's easily possible to find employment. Working as a fast food chef, gigging with Uber, some boring clerical job you despise... Likewise, it's easy to cast a ballot every few years for one of the two parties that suck corporate teat, but ultimately, you're just choosing between two awful options.

Though I guess having a job as a McDonald's cook does grant you the ability to lord it over the unemployed, just as ticking a checkbox every few years grants you the ability to lord your patriotism and commitment to civic duty over those who don't.


Herein lies the problem. America at least is far too polarized for this to happen. Seven out of ten Republicans believe that liberals are orchestrating a Great Replacement. Do you think there is any reasoning with a person who's convinced that non-whites are consciously trying to supplant the white population of America? Democracy is only functional in a population where individuals are open-minded enough to be persuaded to alternate points of view.

It's like that oddly prescient Barry Goldwater quote: "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Americans are becoming sick of compromises, and by association, they're becoming sick of democracy.

people dont always agree. Unless you want a dictatorship compromise is the only way your going to get anything done.

Okay... And my point is that fewer Americans know how to compromise. If you're a Republican and you don't approve of Trump, you're branded a RINO. If you're black and you hold conservative positions, you're branded an Uncle Tom. It's getting rarer to find people with political nuances as more and more fall in line with a few factions.

[Andronya]

Okay... And my point is that fewer Americans know how to compromise. If you're a Republican and you don't approve of Trump, you're branded a RINO. If you're black and you hold conservative positions, you're branded an Uncle Tom. It's getting rarer to find people with political nuances as more and more fall in line with a few factions.

But that's just it, I'm not an American, but as far as I can tell Republicans seem to be able and willing to compromise in many aspects, whereas I don't see the same thing with Democrats, although correct me if I'm wrong in that aspect.

[Existential Cats]

Okay... And my point is that fewer Americans know how to compromise. If you're a Republican and you don't approve of Trump, you're branded a RINO. If you're black and you hold conservative positions, you're branded an Uncle Tom. It's getting rarer to find people with political nuances as more and more fall in line with a few factions.

But that's just it, I'm not an American, but as far as I can tell Republicans seem to be able and willing to compromise in many aspects, whereas I don't see the same thing with Democrats, although correct me if I'm wrong in that aspect.

Considering Republicans had a hard time condemning Trump's supporters after they stormed the capitol building and tried to overturn the election and hang Mike Pence, I would say compromise is low on their list of priorities. Heck, Cheney and Kinzinger were censured by the GOP for participating in the Select Committee.

Much of America's current political dysfunctionality is traceable back to Newt Gingrich, who eschewed compromise in favor of a more aggressive, divisive style of politicking and encouraged his Republican followers to do the same. Though you can read more about that here.

[Andronya]

Not that I'm discrediting it or anything, but isn't NPR very biased towards the Democrat side? But independently: Fair enough, they deffinetly didn't want to compromise on that, but they do seem to be willing to compromise in terms of gun control and even abortion.

And convercely; Democrats never condemned the BLM riots either, I believe they said they where "mostly peaceful" while there where buildings set on fire?

Point is; I as a foreigner see Republicans as a little more open for compromise.

[Alcala-Cordel]

If votes would not matter, why would political parties spend millions?

Which is why voting is important for partisans. There isn't much of a reason to vote if you don't support the status quo.

And nobody's vote matters very much when the candidates and policies people vote for are all chosen by corporations through political parties.

Not voting doesn't solve that problem.

Voting doesn't solve it either.

And nobody's vote matters very much when the candidates and policies people vote for are all chosen by corporations through political parties.

In the US we also have gerrymandering, the Electoral College, and the Senate to make things unequal.


You sound like San Lumen.

No political party of any significance is going to listen to a communist, and I don't have the money to make them do what I say. I can do some stuff to make a political impact, but voting and partisanship don't work.

And San Lumen would be correct on this.

Who's to say? Party memberships in big political parties are pretty diverse- you never know until you try. Besides, you could help build up a currently small communist party to become significant. You could agitate for and promote communist priorities separate from the ideology as a whole. Your donations may be too small for national politicians, but what about your local ones?

Not that diverse, lobbyists make sure of that. Realistically it is impossible for any politician or policy to get anywhere without significant financial support, which only really comes from corporations and the ultra-wealthy who want to preserve the status quo. There are things I can do, but there's still no good reason to vote.

[San Lumen]

Not that I'm discrediting it or anything, but isn't NPR very biased towards the Democrat side? But independently: Fair enough, they deffinetly didn't want to compromise on that, but they do seem to be willing to compromise in terms of gun control and even abortion.

And convercely; Democrats never condemned the BLM riots either, I believe they said they where "mostly peaceful" while there where buildings set on fire?

Point is; I as a foreigner see Republicans as a little more open for compromise.

NPR is a very good source.

No Democrat approved of rioting. Those who committed arson were called out.

[Cybus1]

I’m so curious about why people seem to think voting is so useless. Do you support an extreme political position like fascism or communism? Or do just support a highly unpopular one like socialism? Are you irritated by the fact that democracy is a popularity contest and your views are unpopular? Get out and agitate for your views then. Better then complaining about how you can’t do anything without money. Better to try and fail than to do nothing and complain about how you can’t do anything.

[Forever Indomitable]

Your vote matters exactly as much as everyone else's. If you think your vote should count for more or you want to ignore everyone else's opinion and impose what you want, sounds more than a little narcissistic.

It factually doesn't, though. Only votes for, directly or indirectly, the Republican or Democrat party matter. We have a static duopoly. I'm not apathetic to what everyone else wants, but they get what they want at my expense, while I get nothing.

Ok? If you really want some sort of anarcho-Nazi that represents your views, only participating in the political process once a year isn’t going to get it done. It’s not the system’s job to read everyone’s mind and randomly appoint politicians that they didn’t ask for.

I'm not a fucking "Anarcho-Nazi" and I'm more than tired of this misrepresentative rhetoric against me. You're already stepping on my neck, do you really have to spit in my face, too?

[Forever Indomitable]

Let me ask, what system to you think is better than democracy? What's more fair?

Tbh, IDK. Everyone has a different idea of what is fair and what they want out of life. I've linked you to my personal construct (Sugar & Spice), which I think is pretty inclusive and more power balanced, but not everyone wants the same thing. What I'm angry about is that I don't care how people want to govern themselves and I wish we lived in a world where everybody could do just that, but nobody wants to share that courtesy. It's all or nothing. I have no problem with people having their nation states and ways of life, but they don't feel the same way about me and everyone else. Clausewitz said "war is politics by other means", but he has it backwards, actually. Politics is war by other means. Life is war and everyone is a supremacist. Take for example:

Everything you support is terrible so good honestly.

They all want total control to construct the utopia they envision. I'm not a utopian, though. I just want more than what I'm geting.

[Necroghastia]

Not that I'm discrediting it or anything, but isn't NPR very biased towards the Democrat side?

NPR is super neutral my guy

But independently: Fair enough, they deffinetly didn't want to compromise on that, but they do seem to be willing to compromise in terms of gun control and even abortion.

Dear lord, no they are not.

And convercely; Democrats never condemned the BLM riots either, I believe they said they where "mostly peaceful" while there where buildings set on fire?

There were a few, yes, particularly in the Minneapolis area that was the epicenter of the protests. However, we are talking months of protests across a country over twice the size of the E.U., and they were indeed mostly peaceful - at least, on the protestors' side. It's also worth noting that at least some fires were linked to far-right groups trying to further inflame racial tensions.

Anyone telling you "cities burned down" is a liar, exaggerator, or extremely gullible.

Point is; I as a foreigner see Republicans as a little more open for compromise.

It's literally the opposite, the Republicans refuse to commit to things they do not wholeheartedly support and Dems are all too happy to capitulate to them.

[Forever Indomitable]

Vote third party. You aren't going to win but your vote gets bundled with others and reflects a group of politically motivated people who are not satisfied by the either party. Your party's platform makes it clear what issues you most value and that is relevant towards the two big tickets strategies next time around. Not voting does nothing, voting third party tells the big guys what they need to do to earn your vote and how many other votes may come with it.

More people would vote third party if doing so had visible outcomes (though that's primarily the fault of the system, not the party itself). There are some exceptions, like Jesse Ventura in Minnesota, but those are not the norm. The Democrats, Republicans and the oligarchs that support them know that, by perpetuating neo-tribalism when it comes to party affiliation, the two parties and their business partners can divide and conquer the American people and exploit them for further political and economic power.

I agree with you that voting third party is the best choice, but it's a hard choice for Americans to make, since it means they're being individuals rather than members of political blocs. Ironically, despite being radical individualists, Americans seem to love dividing themselves into arbitrary groupings and defining themselves based on said arbitrary groupings (Note: this is coming from an American).

I've been in relative agreement with you up until the premise that Americans are radical individualists, they're not. America, like everywhere else in the world, is characterized by fanatical moralism and that is nowhere near individualistic.

[Forever Indomitable]

I was just wondering if there's anyone else who doesn't vote for whatever reason in their respective country.

In the US, there's this expression that gets thrown around: "Our democracy" and usually in the context of "X, Y or Z is a threat to our democracy". The thing is, though, if you're a cognitive minority in this country (or maybe in your country, too), you don't really get a say in how you're controlled. There's a "their" democracy for the privileged majorities, but in the idea of the marginalized having a voice, it doesn't exist. If you don't belong to 1 of the 2 parties that get everything here, you may as well cast your vote directly into the trash, because that's exactly what it's worth. And as far as trying to quantify which candidate or platform is marginally worse, I'd rather just abstain from "voting". Because being forced to choose who you'd rather get raped by is a fucking slap in the face and I'd rather just cross my arms than add insult to injury by wasting my time to go make the empty gesture of voting for someone that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.....but that's what it is to live in a society that values tyranny by majority as some kind of universal good.

So, that's why I don't vote. What about you?

Sorry if I may offend you, but that's really pessimistic. You may think your vote doesn't count because of the vast amount of people who vote against you, but you gotta consider that there are other people who feel the same way, and don't want to vote for the same reasons. That's a mentality that's keeping a lot of minorities from actually putting their two cents out there.

Voting is your most important essential right. And although your vote nationally may not mean much, your local and state votes mean everything. Get involved, if you want to see a difference, be that difference. I know that sounds cringe, but it's true. You may think that most of your life is affected by national law, but it's actually state and local law, especially in how the legislature is elected.

You have a lot more say in local and state laws. If you want to run you can even run for a position if you want, if you don't, then vote for your local runners, the ones you agree with. Better involvement in local government is a privilege, especially in today's world, please don't miss out on it.

Also, we live on plurality, not the majority, that's mostly because of how we elect. In Maine, they use Ranked Choice Voting, which prioritizes majority over plurality. That way whenever they vote their governor is voted in by the majority, and the majority of Maine wanted them as governor.

No offense taken, neighbor, maybe I'll give more attention to my locality and see if there's anything worth voting on. I wouldn't say I'm pessimistic, but realistic. I don't expect anything to be granted to me by others because nothing ever has been. And that's another thing I hate about democracy - the dependence aspect. You depend on the popularity of your desires and you depend on others to grant your wishes. That's what fundamentally offends me.

Get your net worth up, not your votes.

This poster really gets it. The only thing the outnumbered individual has at their disposal is money. Only money can help me. If the world is a canvas, money is the brush, or at least one of them.

[Heloin]

Everything you support is terrible so good honestly.

They all want total control to construct the utopia they envision. I'm not a utopian, though. I just want more than what I'm geting.

You want to keep brown people away from you.

[Platoon of Peace]

Politics is genetic and people are largely born Red, Blue, Communist, Fascist and so on.

What?!

Could you expand on that idea?

I personally feel like it's not genetic, but it's environmentally based. I believe If all your friends and family are red voters, then you'll be more likely to be a red voter.

[Forever Indomitable]

This is one of the worst false equivalences I've ever seen. I work my ass off because it makes a difference, a single vote for something unpopular that I'm not even enthusiastic about doesn't.




That's an appeal to popularity fallacy and I like how your solution is literally "delete your individuality and join the crowd". What a repulsive proposition that demonstrates democracy is about conformist mob rule.

You can't "convince" people to your ideas if they're fundamentally against their nature. Politics is genetic and people are largely born Red, Blue, Communist, Fascist and so on. Democracy is about prioritizing the elevation of common cognitive types over less common ones, same as all the other political systems. It's not a meritocracy; it's a popularity contest. I'm not going to give up my identity to fit in. I'm proud of who I am and I want more than what the pitchfork wielding masses are willing to give me.

Yeah why did woman African Americans march and protest for the right to the vote? it did nothing.

Chance often is most felt at the local level. Your vote matters most there.

Politics is absolutely not genetic. I don't know where you got this absurd idea from.

African Americans had always had support in this country from an ever growing section of the White population, so their right to vote was an inevitability, like women's right to vote. And keep in mind what you just said: African AmericanS. Plural, not singular. I am singular. Nobody marches with me; everyone marches against me.

Politics is genetic and people are largely born Red, Blue, Communist, Fascist and so on.

What?!

Could you expand on that idea?

Sure, at the moment, biologists estimate at least 20-60% of human personality to be purely genetic and various research supports this. But in actuality, the margin of influence is probably much higher:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29152902/
"Twin and family studies have showed that personality traits are moderately heritable, and can predict various lifetime outcomes, including psychopathology."

"Despite considerable efforts over the past several decades, the genetic variants that influence personality are only beginning to be identified."

https://bookofodds.com/relationships-so ... physiology
"And since people aren’t often inclined to pair off with those who don’t share their political views (the odds a woman reports having similar views to her partner is 1 in 1.18, or about 85%), if politics are genetic, we’re likely to get them from both sides of the family tree."
Basically, people overwhelmingly breed with others who are most like themselves, which limits cognitive variety. That's why we have a duopoly and such little variation. I'm so different because I have a family history of people who are fairly different breeding together. I have more cognitive variety in my DNA than most others.

[Sordhau]

Yeah why did woman African Americans march and protest for the right to the vote? it did nothing.

Chance often is most felt at the local level. Your vote matters most there.

Politics is absolutely not genetic. I don't know where you got this absurd idea from.

African Americans had always had support in this country from an ever growing section of the White population, so their right to vote was an inevitability, like women's right to vote. And keep in mind what you just said: African AmericanS. Plural, not singular. I am singular. Nobody marches with me; everyone marches against me.

What?!

Could you expand on that idea?

Sure, at the moment, biologists estimate at least 20-60% of human personality to be purely genetic and various research supports this. But in actuality, the margin of influence is probably much higher:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29152902/
"Twin and family studies have showed that personality traits are moderately heritable, and can predict various lifetime outcomes, including psychopathology."

"Despite considerable efforts over the past several decades, the genetic variants that influence personality are only beginning to be identified."

https://bookofodds.com/relationships-so ... physiology
"And since people aren’t often inclined to pair off with those who don’t share their political views (the odds a woman reports having similar views to her partner is 1 in 1.18, or about 85%), if politics are genetic, we’re likely to get them from both sides of the family tree."
Basically, people overwhelmingly breed with others who are most like themselves, which limits cognitive variety. That's why we have a duopoly and such little variation. I'm so different because I have a family history of people who are fairly different breeding together. I have more cognitive variety in my DNA than most others.

My dude is really out here posting pseudoscience like it's the Bible.

[Afrikan Staat]

I feel like my vote doesn't matter in my proportional(ish) system of multiparty democracy, because all of them are the same.

By "same", I mean almost all of them literally don't have any ideological platform stated on their website. I don't mean that their ideological platforms are the same, I mean that they don't have ideological platform (or even policies. Indeed from what I observed, actual policies and legislations are usually crafted not by the parliament, but by appointed technocratic experts, think-thanks, and ministerial teams, while the parliament is there just to ensure that their interests are included before agreeing on the rest.

They're also stacked by people of similar background (mainly business oligarchs), and since the parties are the same anyways, its members regularly change parties depending on who has the best polling numbers, and best monetary arrangements

A concrete example is the most recent gigantic and historic legislative agenda, the Omnibus Bill. Based on the principles of neoliberalism, it overhauled everything from the structure and authority of regional governements, labor laws, zoning amd permit laws, business and investment regulations, and environmental laws. It also came literally out of nowhere, no one in talked about it during the election season, and 80% of the parliament immidiately agreed on it literally one day after the inauguration of the elected president. (The elected president's cabinet subsequently included almost all of the opposition leaders)