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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:21 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:you're trying to spin me a "societal collapse = bad" yarn here, but it's just not working. give people a chance to throw the elites out?

where's my torch and pitchfork?


Societal collapse is probably not as much fun as young adult fiction makes out. Elites don't get thrown out, they just get replaced by another elite.

Strike while the iron is hot then, and make sure that a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource attains power. The status quo will end one way or another, this is just ripping the plaster off.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:26 am

American Legionaries wrote:This of course presumes that the victorious party won within a margin where they would need to woo third party voters to ensure victory.

Or that such third parties are even permitted to run...

No it doesn't, win or lose you can try to either make a pattern or turn things around.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Emotional Support Crocodile
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Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:27 am

Crysuko wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Societal collapse is probably not as much fun as young adult fiction makes out. Elites don't get thrown out, they just get replaced by another elite.

Strike while the iron is hot then, and make sure that a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource attains power. The status quo will end one way or another, this is just ripping the plaster off.


I'm sure that is the naive dream of every revolutionary ever. Somehow never happens though.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

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Crysuko
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Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:29 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Strike while the iron is hot then, and make sure that a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource attains power. The status quo will end one way or another, this is just ripping the plaster off.


I'm sure that is the naive dream of every revolutionary ever. Somehow never happens though.

there is such a thing as learning from history. better to at least try than sit around huffing, wondering why the status quo won't fix itself.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:37 am

Crysuko wrote:you're trying to spin me a "societal collapse = bad" yarn here, but it's just not working. give people a chance to throw the elites out?

where's my torch and pitchfork?

Also a chance to kill ethnic minorities. Probably won't happen this time though. Probably.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Emotional Support Crocodile
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Posts: 1125
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:38 am

Crysuko wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
I'm sure that is the naive dream of every revolutionary ever. Somehow never happens though.

there is such a thing as learning from history. better to at least try than sit around huffing, wondering why the status quo won't fix itself.


I am suggesting learning from history.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

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Crysuko
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Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:39 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Crysuko wrote:you're trying to spin me a "societal collapse = bad" yarn here, but it's just not working. give people a chance to throw the elites out?

where's my torch and pitchfork?

Also a chance to kill ethnic minorities. Probably won't happen this time though. Probably.

I have done nothing but advocate for socialism, what in the hell are you talking about.

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:there is such a thing as learning from history. better to at least try than sit around huffing, wondering why the status quo won't fix itself.


I am suggesting learning from history.

you are suggesting cherrypicking from history.
Last edited by Crysuko on Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:50 am

[quote="Crysuko";p="39970312"]
I have done nothing but advocate for socialism, what in the hell are you talking about./quote]
You're fantasizing about public violence without actually understanding it. For what its worth I'm sure you'd feel awful watching the disproportionately jewish stockbrokers get dragged out of synagogues to be murdered and you'd probably agree things were going a little far once the rape and child killing started but it would be aces if you could you know not actively support it before hand.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:54 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Crysuko wrote:I have done nothing but advocate for socialism, what in the hell are you talking about./quote]
You're fantasizing about public violence without actually understanding it. For what its worth I'm sure you'd feel awful watching the disproportionately jewish stockbrokers get dragged out of synagogues to be murdered and you'd probably agree things were going a little far once the rape and child killing started but it would be aces if you could you know not actively support it before hand.

I am advocating for displacement of the current regime for a socialist one, not some kind of red terror. I was being jokey with the torch and pitchfork comment.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:00 am

Crysuko wrote:I am advocating for displacement of the current regime for a socialist one, not some kind of red terror. I was being jokey with the torch and pitchfork comment.

I was also being jokey, what are the odds you'd get close enough to witness anything truly terrible? You're not like a gun person so when shit goes down it's going to be lost and won by people who, whether for or against your cause, are by their character very unlike you. Displacement of the current regime is such a civilized phrase I can barely envision the mass graves.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
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Posts: 1125
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:02 am

Crysuko wrote:[
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
I am suggesting learning from history.

you are suggesting cherrypicking from history.


What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

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Crysuko
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Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:03 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Crysuko wrote:I am advocating for displacement of the current regime for a socialist one, not some kind of red terror. I was being jokey with the torch and pitchfork comment.

I was also being jokey, what are the odds you'd get close enough to witness anything truly terrible? You're not like a gun person so when shit goes down it's going to be lost and won by people who, whether for or against your cause, are by their character very unlike you. Displacement of the current regime is such a civilized phrase I can barely envision the mass graves.

is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:[

you are suggesting cherrypicking from history.


What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?

Take the ideology. find out what doesn't/didn't work with implementing it, and make sure to address it. it's not 1936 anymore, new methods of governance are needed. especially with economic and climate crises.
Last edited by Crysuko on Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:09 am

Crysuko wrote:is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.


I can be angry at a lot of people, for the moment I've fixed my gaze on bullshit revolutionary rhetoric.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
Emotional Support Crocodile
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Posts: 1125
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:10 am

Crysuko wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:I was also being jokey, what are the odds you'd get close enough to witness anything truly terrible? You're not like a gun person so when shit goes down it's going to be lost and won by people who, whether for or against your cause, are by their character very unlike you. Displacement of the current regime is such a civilized phrase I can barely envision the mass graves.

is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?

Take the ideology. find out what doesn't/didn't work with implementing it, and make sure to address it. it's not 1936 anymore, new methods of governance are needed. especially with economic and climate crises.


What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:11 am

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
Crysuko wrote:is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.


Take the ideology. find out what doesn't/didn't work with implementing it, and make sure to address it. it's not 1936 anymore, new methods of governance are needed. especially with economic and climate crises.


What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?

read the post you just replied to, then get back to me.

Des-Bal wrote:
Crysuko wrote:is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.


I can be angry at a lot of people, for the moment I've fixed my gaze on bullshit revolutionary rhetoric.

then turn your ire upon liberals with terminal bay area brain.
Last edited by Crysuko on Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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American Legionaries
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Posts: 6672
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:17 am

Crysuko wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:I was also being jokey, what are the odds you'd get close enough to witness anything truly terrible? You're not like a gun person so when shit goes down it's going to be lost and won by people who, whether for or against your cause, are by their character very unlike you. Displacement of the current regime is such a civilized phrase I can barely envision the mass graves.

is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.

Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?

Take the ideology. find out what doesn't/didn't work with implementing it, and make sure to address it. it's not 1936 anymore, new methods of governance are needed. especially with economic and climate crises.


It's generally illegal for average people to violently overthrow the government too...

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Emotional Support Crocodile
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Posts: 1125
Founded: Jun 06, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:18 am

Crysuko wrote:
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:
What examples of elites being replaced by "a government that deigns to care about people as anything other than an abstract resource" am I ignoring?

read the post you just replied to, then get back to me.


Don't have any? Okay then I am not cherry picking from history.
Just another surprising item on the bagging scale of life

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:20 am

American Legionaries wrote:
Crysuko wrote:is there a particular reason you've put a rocket behind the constant references to mass murder. go and get angry at the right, then. they're the ones advocating for exile and killings. And i'm not a gun person because I live in a country where such things are illegal for average people to own.


Take the ideology. find out what doesn't/didn't work with implementing it, and make sure to address it. it's not 1936 anymore, new methods of governance are needed. especially with economic and climate crises.


It's generally illegal for average people to violently overthrow the government too...

hasn't stopped movements left and right (ha) from at least trying to do so
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31303
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:20 am

American Legionaries wrote:It's generally illegal for average people to violently overthrow the government too...

I'm stoked for this rule following revolution where millions of peoples lives are radically altered against their will but nobody does anything about it.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6672
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:27 am

Crysuko wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
It's generally illegal for average people to violently overthrow the government too...

hasn't stopped movements left and right (ha) from at least trying to do so


Of course not, I'm just saying that if you plan on breaking the latter rule, you might want to consider breaking the former rule first.

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-Astoria-
Senator
 
Posts: 3789
Founded: Oct 27, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:32 am

Forever Indomitable wrote:I was just wondering if there's anyone else who doesn't vote for whatever reason in their respective country.

I personally don't, but that's because:
  • I've no idea who to vote for out of almost 100 parties on the ballot (most of which absolutely no one has ever heard of), and
  • no parties have anything in the way of distinct ideologies (and their platforms/manifestos mean exactly nothing),
  • said parties are usually exclusively based on ethnic/religious lines, and
  • many of their members switch party affiliations every so often.
Personally the only difference between the parties are their logos and whoever's the slightly-well-known moneyed businessmen of the week they've got as their leaders.

And as far as trying to quantify which candidate or platform is marginally worse, I'd rather just abstain from "voting".

In my case, it's 'who even are these people that only seem to emerge when it's election time?'
Republic of Astoria | Pobolieth Asdair - permanent hiatus edition
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Dayganistan
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Posts: 1495
Founded: May 02, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dayganistan » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:47 am

I live in Canada and feel discouraged from voting. I like the idea in theory of sending a local representative to Ottawa. But in practice the local representative doesn't matter and people just vote along party lines. And unfortunately, I live somewhere that the candidate for a party I'm unlikely to ever vote for is the only one that will ever win. So yes, I feel discouraged for voting and probably wouldn't feel like it matters unless we switched to some sort of proportional system. Or if I moved somewhere that more than one party's candidate has a chance of winning.
Republic of Dayganistan | جمهوری دهقانستان

A secular, Tajik dominated state in Central Asia which has experienced 40 years of democratic backsliding. NS stats are NOT used.

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Reino de Portvgal
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 25
Founded: Jun 11, 2021
Capitalizt

Postby Reino de Portvgal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:50 am

American Legionaries wrote:
Terminus Station wrote:This is one of those privileged idiotic 1st world problems democratic countries have from time to time. You all think your 1 vote doesnt matter but you're more than willing to fight in a civil war to get what you want. You know whats a way to get what you want thats fair and doesnt necessitate violence? Voting in a democratic election.

Your 1 vote may mean very little but every other alternative is considerably worth even less. Remember that.


But voting doesn't get me what I want. Because I'm not part of the majority party.


Yeah but you should still vote, even if you dont elect anyone, I allways vote and never got the party that I voted for getting the majority or forming a government. So what, that's democracy. Just exercice your voting right even if it matters very little, after all it does but it's better than nothing.
Reino de Portugal Kingdom of Portugal
"Com Cristo! Pelo Reino e por El-Rei! Hurrá! Hurrá! Hurrá!"

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Countesia
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Posts: 1489
Founded: Oct 10, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Countesia » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:54 am

Unless you live in a deeply corrupted state, dictatorship or straight up anarchy, your vote matters in the sense that you were able to walk up to that ballot and choose who you wanted without threat to your life. You expressed your political beliefs via vote.

Also, different voting systems work better than first past the post. Ranked voting is much more representative when you break it down.
Last edited by Countesia on Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7207
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:23 am

Countesia wrote:Unless you live in a deeply corrupted state, dictatorship or straight up anarchy, your vote matters in the sense that you were able to walk up to that ballot and choose who you wanted without threat to your life. You expressed your political beliefs via vote.

Also, different voting systems work better than first past the post. Ranked voting is much more representative when you break it down.

it's a suggestion box. those in charge are under no obligation to take it seriously.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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