Sordhau wrote:Nimzonia wrote:It would have happened somewhere else within a few decades anyway. The preconditions still existed, and the USA wasn't even the first republic anyway. It's rather lacking in vision to assume that the way something happened in history was the only way it could possibly happen.
I don't think you understand the ramifications of the American Revolution. This was the first successful large-scale violent rebellion to replace a monarchy with a republic. That sets a precedent that gives people a model to work off of and aspire to. The French were hesitant to support us in large part because the domestic issues in France were also ripe for revolutionary activity and the French weren't sure if it was a good idea to inspire home-grown revolutionaries to do at home what Americans were doing in the Colonies. Many French who ended up participating in the American Revolution, such as LaFayette, used it as an example of what could be accomplished in France and it wasn't hard to point at the American Revolution as an example to those in doubt and say "If the Americans can do it, so can we!" and that same sentiment would be carried over into the Revolutions of 1848 - which were in turn inspired by the success of both the American and French Revolutions - and again in 1905 and 1917 inspired by the same Revolutions that occurred in the previous century, as well as similar revolutionary activity in the 1800s and 1900s. The American Revolution absolutely set a precedent and served as an example of success for those working towards establishing liberal democracies throughout the West and elsewhere from Bolívar to the Young Turks to Xinhai. It's much easier to get people on board with your ideals when you have successful examples to point at and prove it works. The American Revolution nearly crumbled several times quite specifically because there wasn't as much popular support for it as the revolutions which came later. Quite honestly without foreign (but especially French) support we wouldn't have become an independent country at all.
Why do you assume that no other revolution could have succeeded without the American revolution as inspiration? If a prior example was needed to inspire a revolution, then the American revolution wouldn't have succeeded either, unless you believe that only Americans can generate a successful revolution by themselves. Obviously the later revolutions in our own history ended up being inspired by the American Revolution, because it happened in our history. If it didn't happen, revolutionaries elsewhere would have motivated themselves some other way, because their resistance against tyranny was still righteous. People did not actually need Americans to show them what to do, and I find it odd to hear such American exceptionalism coming from someone of your professed political views.
Sordhau wrote:This is assuming that if the American Revolution didn't pop off in 1775 but instead waited until 1875 that it would have been draped in the ideals of Fourier/Owens/Marx/Engels instead of the Founding Fathers. It also assumes that the conditions that forced the American Revolution to occur were either still present a hundred years later or had worsened without the public becoming upset over it. It also assumes that the 13 Colonies wouldn't receive independence/autonomy for some other reason. Among many other things.
Yes, it would've been amazing if America had been founded on a Socialist Revolution instead of a Liberal one but entertaining the thought is rather pointless and not what this thread is really about.
It's a possibility, not an assumption. If the American Revolution had failed, then the next 100 years of history would diverge so far from ours that the world would be unrecognisable and almost any possibility can be entertained. If the 1770s revolution had been suppressed, later revolutions may have still occurred due to the underlying unrest persisting, but with different ideals due to occurring in a different cultural era. Or maybe they wouldn't. Or maybe Karl Marx would have been kicked in the head by a horse at the age of six due to the butterfly effect and revolutionary socialism never happened at all.
If you find this speculation pointless, then I wonder why you felt it necessary to participate in this thread at all, since there is nothing here but pointless speculation.