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What if America lost the War Of Independence

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Lomacrato
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What if America lost the War Of Independence

Postby Lomacrato » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:04 pm

I was wondering? What if America lost the Independence War?

What I think
America would still have its old British Flag untill 1960, when the British Empire collapsed. It would still have British Influence, also the War of 1812 wouldn't have happened, since America would have been a part of Britain. America could have got independence in 1960, It would be July 4th, 1960. British America would have been 62 years old. The pretitle of America would've been called The British Islands Of America. Also, America wouldn't have a president untill 1960, or 1969. By now Richard Nixon would have already started his first term.

Argue with me or not, America is technically still British.
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Czervenika
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Postby Czervenika » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:06 pm

It would probably just be yet another Commonwealth country. It would look nearly identical to Canada I think.
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United Eastern Vodia
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Postby United Eastern Vodia » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:07 pm

Lomacrato wrote:I was wondering? What if America lost the Independence War?

What I think
America would still have its old British Flag untill 1960, when the British Empire collapsed. It would still have British Influence, also the War of 1812 wouldn't have happened, since America would have been a part of Britain. America could have got independence in 1960, It would be July 4th, 1960. British America would have been 62 years old. The pretitle of America would've been called The British Islands Of America. Also, America wouldn't have a president untill 1960, or 1969. By now Richard Nixon would have already started his first term.

Argue with me or not, America is technically still British.

I disagree that America would have gained independence that late, I think it would have probably gained independence in the late 1800's early 1900's but maybe someone who knows more about history than me can tell me how I'm an idiot for saying that

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Lomacrato
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Postby Lomacrato » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:08 pm

Czervenika wrote:It would probably just be yet another Commonwealth country. It would look nearly identical to Canada I think.

It would not have been a Commonwealth, what about Falklands Islands?
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Lomacrato
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Postby Lomacrato » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:10 pm

United Eastern Vodia wrote:
Lomacrato wrote:I was wondering? What if America lost the Independence War?

What I think
America would still have its old British Flag untill 1960, when the British Empire collapsed. It would still have British Influence, also the War of 1812 wouldn't have happened, since America would have been a part of Britain. America could have got independence in 1960, It would be July 4th, 1960. British America would have been 62 years old. The pretitle of America would've been called The British Islands Of America. Also, America wouldn't have a president untill 1960, or 1969. By now Richard Nixon would have already started his first term.

Argue with me or not, America is technically still British.

I disagree that America would have gained independence that late, I think it would have probably gained independence in the late 1800's early 1900's but maybe someone who knows more about history than me can tell me how I'm an idiot for saying that

No nation in British History have succeeded from The Monarchy.
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:12 pm

Lomacrato wrote:
United Eastern Vodia wrote:I disagree that America would have gained independence that late, I think it would have probably gained independence in the late 1800's early 1900's but maybe someone who knows more about history than me can tell me how I'm an idiot for saying that

No nation in British History have succeeded from The Monarchy.

Pretty sure the U.S did. So did India, Pakistan, Egypt....
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Lomacrato
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Postby Lomacrato » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:13 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Lomacrato wrote:No nation in British History have succeeded from The Monarchy.

Pretty sure the U.S did. So did India, Pakistan, Egypt....

That are 4 Nations, not 62 Nations
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Constaniana
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Postby Constaniana » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:17 pm

If the United States lost the War of Independence I doubt you'd have a unified America afterwards, but rather a continuation of the colonies being separate political entities. King Charles III would now be King of Virginia, King of North Carolina, King of Massachusetts, and so on, the way he is King of Australia, King of Canada, etc. Keeping control of the Thirteen Colonies would also likely alter Great Britain's strategic interests to such an extent that the whole 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries wind up being too different from our timeline to predict.
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Postby Luziyca » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:18 pm

I'm sure that the South (at the very bare minimum) will definitely secede as soon as the Brits outlawed slavery in its entirety in 1833. Those that don't join the slavers will probably end up being vored into Canada (well, British North America), and I am very sure that Mexico will still keep what is now the American Southwest.

That's about as certain as it can get: I don't know whether Canada would be a superpower in that timeline or not, I don't know what happens with the South, I don't know how it will affect Canadian politics. I just doubt that New England would be anything but a collection of Canadian provinces.
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Sir Derp
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Postby Sir Derp » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:18 pm

Lomacrato wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Pretty sure the U.S did. So did India, Pakistan, Egypt....

That are 4 Nations, not 62 Nations

Who the fuck said anything about 62 nations? Look... I know you are bored and all, but you now have so many threads running, you seem to be confusing them. Perhaps you should push back from the table and call it a night, hmmm?

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Lomacrato
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Postby Lomacrato » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:20 pm

Sir Derp wrote:
Lomacrato wrote:That are 4 Nations, not 62 Nations

Who the fuck said anything about 62 nations? Look... I know you are bored and all, but you now have so many threads running, you seem to be confusing them. Perhaps you should push back from the table and call it a night, hmmm?

Look, I don't want to spam the whole system with threads, I am curious,
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Postby Bovad » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:26 pm

Lomacrato wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Pretty sure the U.S did. So did India, Pakistan, Egypt....

That are 4 Nations, not 62 Nations

Yes, you said none.
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Veraguas
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Postby Veraguas » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 pm

Lomacrato wrote:America is technically still British.


How d'you figure that?
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Postby Sordhau » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:49 pm

If the American Revolution fails then the French Revolution likely doesn't happen, which means the Revolutions of the 1800s also probably won't happen, which means the Revolutions of the 1900s also probably don't happen. The USA is a blight upon the globe, but the American Revolution quite honestly represents a turning point in history that marked the beginning of the end for Monarchism and the rise of Republicanism. In other words more countries have their crowns and the world is a worse place for it.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:11 pm

The Founding Fathers would likely have been tried and found guilty of treason/inciting treason, and then dealt with using the proper procedures of justice. They would be seen in the history books today as larger scale Benedict Arnold type figures. Meanwhile, George iii and those who fought to defend the empire would be the heroes.

Firearms ownership policies would have followed the Canadian model (and thus be more reasonable). Countless school shootings wouldn’t happen.

Slavery would have ended hundreds of years earlier in accordance with the policies of the British Empire.

With the British opposed to west of the Appalachian imperialism, the genocide of many native tribes would not have happened/have been delayed instead.

Taxes would be higher but healthcare policies would be more fair and make more sense.

The US Civil War wouldn’t happen because everyone would instead have been loyal to the British Crown.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:16 pm

Sordhau wrote:If the American Revolution fails then the French Revolution likely doesn't happen, which means the Revolutions of the 1800s also probably won't happen, which means the Revolutions of the 1900s also probably don't happen. The USA is a blight upon the globe, but the American Revolution quite honestly represents a turning point in history that marked the beginning of the end for Monarchism and the rise of Republicanism. In other words more countries have their crowns and the world is a worse place for it.

The French Revolution absolutely would have happened. It's incredibly naïve to think that American independence was a necessary condition for the French Revolution would have occurred. Of course, you being you, you don't have any source on what you say, but I'll continue. The French Revolution certainly would have occurred—its causes were mostly endogenous, not exogenous as you implicitly claim—but its end result may have looked different.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:17 pm

The collapse of the Soviet Union may have been the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, but it there’s no doubt the greatest one for the 18th century was the victory of the Patriot faction in the American Revolutionary War.

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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:22 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:The US Civil War wouldn’t happen because everyone would instead have been loyal to the British Crown.

What makes this alternate universe US so different from the several dozen other British colonies that were, ostensibly, loyal to the British Crown but ended up revolting for independence? India, Israel/Palestine, and the US itself comes to mind.

Because, you know, the US itself was ostensibly loyal to the British Crown. So, maybe, just maybe..."loyalty to the British Crown" means jack squat in the real world?
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Big brained monkeys
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Postby Big brained monkeys » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:22 pm

I think america will be smaller because the Louisianan purchase wouldn't have happened and mexico would probably have its old borders and america would be probably be more weaker today and lastly the U.S.S.R would probably be more scarier as america would be just as a whole weaker if they lost the war of the independence

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Big brained monkeys
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Postby Big brained monkeys » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:28 pm

Sordhau wrote:If the American Revolution fails then the French Revolution likely doesn't happen, which means the Revolutions of the 1800s also probably won't happen, which means the Revolutions of the 1900s also probably don't happen. The USA is a blight upon the globe, but the American Revolution quite honestly represents a turning point in history that marked the beginning of the end for Monarchism and the rise of Republicanism. In other words more countries have their crowns and the world is a worse place for it.

if the american revolution fails the french people would probably just make a more brutal revolution as the french spend so much money on the revolutionary war that there was no money for food SO if the revolutionary war failed then it be just for nothing then there be a heck of an outrage leading to a revolution

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:28 pm

Vistulange wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:The US Civil War wouldn’t happen because everyone would instead have been loyal to the British Crown.

What makes this alternate universe US so different from the several dozen other British colonies that were, ostensibly, loyal to the British Crown but ended up revolting for independence? India, Israel/Palestine, and the US itself comes to mind.

Because, you know, the US itself was ostensibly loyal to the British Crown. So, maybe, just maybe..."loyalty to the British Crown" means jack squat in the real world?


The difference is that in this timeline, the British would have won and in doing so, cemented the legitimacy of the loyalist ideology (over the pro-US, pro-independence views). They would have over a hundred years to promote this ideology, hence butterflying away the US Civil War.

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Postby Vestra-Sverige » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:30 pm

Lomacrato wrote:I was wondering? What if America lost the Independence War?

What I think
America would still have its old British Flag untill 1960, when the British Empire collapsed. It would still have British Influence, also the War of 1812 wouldn't have happened, since America would have been a part of Britain. America could have got independence in 1960, It would be July 4th, 1960. British America would have been 62 years old. The pretitle of America would've been called The British Islands Of America. Also, America wouldn't have a president untill 1960, or 1969. By now Richard Nixon would have already started his first term.

Argue with me or not, America is technically still British.

It would probably just have become apart of the British Empire again, maybe would've tried to fight again in the 1800s or after WW1. It would have defiantly fallen behind its nodern day strength though.

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Postby Stellar Colonies » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:53 pm

Lomacrato wrote:...

By now Richard Nixon would have already started his first term.

...

Richard Nixon would not have existed.
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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:55 pm

the world would have ended by now without america's guidance
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Mtwara
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Postby Mtwara » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:16 am

It's a big question and there's a lot of very smart people who have already tried to answer the question.

It's far enough past in history that there's no one right answer, really.

The British Empire wouldn't look like it does today. One reason the UK took such an interest in Asia and Africa was as a pivot away from North America.
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