What would civil war in the U.S. look like?

[The V O I D]

I'd expect the Second Reconstruction to end after another ten, twenty year period - with actual rebuilding/resettling efforts likely lasting a lot longer than even that. By the end of the political reorganization that'd happen in the meantime, the Overton window of the US will have shifted leftwards to catch up with some European countries: the Progressive Democrats would likely form their own left to far left party full of anywhere from progressive social libertarians to libertarian socialists/libertarian leftists (with LGBT+ rights etc. as default positions); maybe even form two parties that do coalitions frequently, in the form of DemSocs and ProDems. On the other side would be the Liberal Democrats/Liberal Party, full of former moderate Democrats and former moderate Republicans that are centre-left to centre-right with a wide variety of social positions.

Or, ya know, the military overthrows the Democratic government, America becomes a Dictatorship, the senate, if it still exists would be de facto powerless, and everything becomes at lot worse.

Honestly, Feel like a lot of people are ignoring the 'how do we end the civil war until being a authoritarian state' problem, and just going "when my side will win they will kill all the bad people"

No, actually, the reason this won't happen is because of a note I mentioned earlier: IIRC, there's been reports that on military bases in the 2020 elections, there was a general shift leftwards/joining or voting for the Democratic Party, not the GOP. The military's own soldiers were abandoning authoritarianism/radicalization of the right, what in those actions makes you think that they'd then stand in formation if some General got too dictator-y or tried to?

Besides which, most high command of the military heavily disagreed with Trump - and frequently - according to numerous former top Trump regime officials. It is entirely likely that, given these two factors, the military wouldn't go for dictatorship and would only act under martial law until martial law/the Second Reconstruction was set to end. Otherwise, those in high command would face mass desertions or else be potentially arrested/executed by lower-ranked/general soldiers for Treason.

I do not see any scenario that ends with the military suddenly doing a 180 towards authoritarianism, even during a term of martial law as a result of a far right-led insurrection. Maybe a coup could happen, but it wouldn't be for authoritarianism, it'd be to remove Trump and his ilk from power if they managed to seize it/try to go full dictator.

It's always somewhat funny and slightly depressing to watch people argue about how their side would totally crush the other side in a civil war instead of realizing that any civil war would end in mass famine and widespread economic collapse for everyone.

Given the cities/Dem States are the ones making all the money and are often bailing out the rural areas or even having red states/rural states/GOP states act as money sinks, how Dem States mostly have access to rivers/port cities and most port cities are heavily Dem, the Navy and military / National Guard would support and secure said cities....

...well, the only infrastructure getting destroyed would belong to the rural/red states to ensure they couldn't coordinate and that their mass insurrection was in contained pockets that could be easily squashed or else contained generally until they get too starved/dehydrated to fight anymore. The Second Reconstruction I mention includes rebuilding / resettling efforts once all of that is over and the insurrectionists are imprisoned this time, unlike the last Civil War, under all sorts of felonies that come with being a traitor and insurrectionist.

State and federal laws will disqualify said individuals from voting, and the Constitution itself would henceforth forbid them from office or other forms of power even after they got out of jail. As for any children/grandchildren of the insurrectionists, I imagine that without the GOP blocking any measures any longer, the Dems - split into new parties yet or not - are able to actually pass good infrastructure, healthcare, education, welfare, childcare, and foster care reformation bills that might manage to untangle the already messy system we have.

So they'll probably get deprogrammed/deradicalized, even if it takes until after the Second Reconstruction officially ends.

As for economic ruin etc., again, those blue areas are all the major economic centers of industry/trade. That won't change just because they needed to be secured against insurrection, especially when the insurrectionists are struggling to compete against a far more effective military force and its far superior equipment, e.g. the US military and National Guard. Maybe there'll be more imports for food for a while, but I don't see any US allies actively trying to prevent such a thing, and in fact they'd be the first in line to see it done - we were there for them, after all, in their time of need (e.g. the Marshall Plan, for one).

The only ones facing genuine economic ruin, famine, and potential mass death are the rural / red states who think they'd fucking win against far more populated cities who also have guns, and against the US military/National Guard (or are under the delusion the military/National Guard are still on 'their side,' as it were). Because, again, they are all money sinks and need us at least as much, if not more than we need them.

[Helakos]

Or, ya know, the military overthrows the Democratic government, America becomes a Dictatorship, the senate, if it still exists would be de facto powerless, and everything becomes at lot worse.

Honestly, Feel like a lot of people are ignoring the 'how do we end the civil war until being a authoritarian state' problem, and just going "when my side will win they will kill all the bad people"

No, actually, the reason this won't happen is because of a note I mentioned earlier: IIRC, there's been reports that on military bases in the 2020 elections, there was a general shift leftwards/joining or voting for the Democratic Party, not the GOP. The military's own soldiers were abandoning authoritarianism/radicalization of the right, what in those actions makes you think that they'd then stand in formation if some General got too dictator-y or tried to?

Besides which, most high command of the military heavily disagreed with Trump - and frequently - according to numerous former top Trump regime officials. It is entirely likely that, given these two factors, the military wouldn't go for dictatorship and would only act under martial law until martial law/the Second Reconstruction was set to end. Otherwise, those in high command would face mass desertions or else be potentially arrested/executed by lower-ranked/general soldiers for Treason.

I do not see any scenario that ends with the military suddenly doing a 180 towards authoritarianism, even during a term of martial law as a result of a far right-led insurrection. Maybe a coup could happen, but it wouldn't be for authoritarianism, it'd be to remove Trump and his ilk from power if they managed to seize it/try to go full dictator.

It's always somewhat funny and slightly depressing to watch people argue about how their side would totally crush the other side in a civil war instead of realizing that any civil war would end in mass famine and widespread economic collapse for everyone.

Given the cities/Dem States are the ones making all the money and are often bailing out the rural areas or even having red states/rural states/GOP states act as money sinks, how Dem States mostly have access to rivers/port cities and most port cities are heavily Dem, the Navy and military / National Guard would support and secure said cities....

...well, the only infrastructure getting destroyed would belong to the rural/red states to ensure they couldn't coordinate and that their mass insurrection was in contained pockets that could be easily squashed or else contained generally until they get too starved/dehydrated to fight anymore. The Second Reconstruction I mention includes rebuilding / resettling efforts once all of that is over and the insurrectionists are imprisoned this time, unlike the last Civil War, under all sorts of felonies that come with being a traitor and insurrectionist.

State and federal laws will disqualify said individuals from voting, and the Constitution itself would henceforth forbid them from office or other forms of power even after they got out of jail. As for any children/grandchildren of the insurrectionists, I imagine that without the GOP blocking any measures any longer, the Dems - split into new parties yet or not - are able to actually pass good infrastructure, healthcare, education, welfare, childcare, and foster care reformation bills that might manage to untangle the already messy system we have.

So they'll probably get deprogrammed/deradicalized, even if it takes until after the Second Reconstruction officially ends.

As for economic ruin etc., again, those blue areas are all the major economic centers of industry/trade. That won't change just because they needed to be secured against insurrection, especially when the insurrectionists are struggling to compete against a far more effective military force and its far superior equipment, e.g. the US military and National Guard. Maybe there'll be more imports for food for a while, but I don't see any US allies actively trying to prevent such a thing, and in fact they'd be the first in line to see it done - we were there for them, after all, in their time of need (e.g. the Marshall Plan, for one).

The only ones facing genuine economic ruin, famine, and potential mass death are the rural / red states who think they'd fucking win against far more populated cities who also have guns, and against the US military/National Guard (or are under the delusion the military/National Guard are still on 'their side,' as it were). Because, again, they are all money sinks and need us at least as much, if not more than we need them.

This is the most ridiculous analysis i have seen. Using words like "deprogrammed" "deradicalized"

The "democrats" or whatever form the "leftist" coalition would take would suffer the same fate as the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, idiotic in-fighting because their radical elements would start doing stupid crap like burning down churches and slaughtering priests. This is a 1918 bolshevik fever dream in the form of a rant your making. As soon as the free benefits run out due to widespread insurgency and the standard of living absolutely tanks your "cities with guns" are going to become ethnic battlegrounds between identity groups who need to "get back" at being oppressed, they will eat each other alive. It's going to be Yugoslavia up in here.

[The V O I D]

-snip-

This is the most ridiculous analysis i have seen. Using words like "deprogrammed" "deradicalized"

The "democrats" or whatever form the "leftist" coalition would take would suffer the same fate as the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, idiotic in-fighting because their radical elements would start doing stupid crap like burning down churches and slaughtering priests. This is a 1918 bolshevik fever dream in the form of a rant your making. As soon as the free benefits run out due to widespread insurgency and the standard of living absolutely tanks your "cities with guns" are going to become ethnic battlegrounds between identity groups who need to "get back" at being oppressed, they will eat each other alive. It's going to be Yugoslavia up in here.

What do you literally call the amount of fascists, neo-Nazis, etc. who are suddenly out in the open because of 45? What do you call the cult of personality around 45? What do you call the QAnon cult? WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, IF NOT BRAINWASHING AND RADICALIZATION? Please, I would love to hear what the appropriate terms are to fix that in the aftermath of putting down an insurrection built upon it! Genuinely! Tell me. I am begging you.

And as for your other statement... wow. Every word of what you just said was wrong. There's a big reason that won't happen: there's an active threat to their existence outside, in the form of those far right insurrectionists we're talking about. Even after the insurrection is gone, the Second Reconstruction would be under way, and just like the last Civil War, there's no reason not to have some level of normalcy with elections etc.

Another big reason it won't happen, perhaps even bigger than the above, though, is that unlike the Spanish Republicans (and Revolutionary Catalonia specifically), we won't have a pseudo-Communist superpower trying to sabotage everything. Russia has proven its power projection is rather limited (a convo for the Ukraine thread), and China - state-capitalist entity that it is - has tied its continued existence to our continued stability as one of their largest customers.

Their economy would vanish into the aether if we collapsed or if the insurrection somehow pulled a miracle and won because most of them are also Sinophobes who'd want to dismiss any debts to China and stop being China's customers. So they won't be interfering, except perhaps to cause division among the far right insurrectionists causing them problems! Plus, war breeds business, as sucky as it is, they'd probably be all too willing to sell us more than enough stuff to keep us going, even without considering that...

...well, put bluntly, most of our allies also have a vested interest in our stability, and would invest in ensuring the cities etc. got what they needed to be stable bastions in an otherwise chaotic region that is being decimated by the military to take out any large organized or coordinated efforts to unify insurrectionist movements.

Once all was said and done, the resettlement/rebuilding needs would literally create an absolute metric ton of new jobs and places to live to refill rural regions; a bit of investment from our allies and we'd bounce right back to pre-insurrection levels within a handful of years.

[Helakos]

-snip-

This is the most ridiculous analysis i have seen. Using words like "deprogrammed" "deradicalized"

The "democrats" or whatever form the "leftist" coalition would take would suffer the same fate as the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, idiotic in-fighting because their radical elements would start doing stupid crap like burning down churches and slaughtering priests. This is a 1918 bolshevik fever dream in the form of a rant your making. As soon as the free benefits run out due to widespread insurgency and the standard of living absolutely tanks your "cities with guns" are going to become ethnic battlegrounds between identity groups who need to "get back" at being oppressed, they will eat each other alive. It's going to be Yugoslavia up in here.

What do you literally call the amount of fascists, neo-Nazis, etc. who are suddenly out in the open because of 45? What do you call the cult of personality around 45? What do you call the QAnon cult? WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, IF NOT BRAINWASHING AND RADICALIZATION? Please, I would love to hear what the appropriate terms are to fix that in the aftermath of putting down an insurrection built upon it! Genuinely! Tell me. I am begging you.

And as for your other statement... wow. Every word of what you just said was wrong. There's a big reason that won't happen: there's an active threat to their existence outside, in the form of those far right insurrectionists we're talking about. Even after the insurrection is gone, the Second Reconstruction would be under way, and just like the last Civil War, there's no reason not to have some level of normalcy with elections etc.

Another big reason it won't happen, perhaps even bigger than the above, though, is that unlike the Spanish Republicans (and Revolutionary Catalonia specifically), we won't have a pseudo-Communist superpower trying to sabotage everything. Russia has proven its power projection is rather limited (a convo for the Ukraine thread), and China - state-capitalist entity that it is - has tied its continued existence to our continued stability as one of their largest customers.

Their economy would vanish into the aether if we collapsed or if the insurrection somehow pulled a miracle and won because most of them are also Sinophobes who'd want to dismiss any debts to China and stop being China's customers. So they won't be interfering, except perhaps to cause division among the far right insurrectionists causing them problems! Plus, war breeds business, as sucky as it is, they'd probably be all too willing to sell us more than enough stuff to keep us going, even without considering that...

...well, put bluntly, most of our allies also have a vested interest in our stability, and would invest in ensuring the cities etc. got what they needed to be stable bastions in an otherwise chaotic region that is being decimated by the military to take out any large organized or coordinated efforts to unify insurrectionist movements.

Once all was said and done, the resettlement/rebuilding needs would literally create an absolute metric ton of new jobs and places to live to refill rural regions; a bit of investment from our allies and we'd bounce right back to pre-insurrection levels within a handful of years.

I don't know what to say, this is just a paranoid rant from you, im sorry you feel like your surrounded by enemies and then thinking China is going to side with you(clearly have no idea about Chinese cultural values)

[The V O I D]

I don't know what to say, this is just a paranoid rant from you, im sorry you feel like your surrounded by enemies and then thinking China is going to side with you(clearly have no idea about Chinese cultural values)

It's literally not paranoia. Have you actually seen any of these radicalized people? I have. There's a lot of MAGA going hand in hand with Swastika merch, among other things that generally imply these trends.

And China's biggest cultural value since they went full state-capitalist is the same as any other capitalist economy: money. If the US totally collapses, first of all, that's a mind-boggling amount of money they'd lose out on in terms of what is owed and what we keep asking for/getting from them, along with many, many corporations and government entities no longer buying from them.

Maybe, just maybe, all of our allies remaining their customers will keep them afloat, but the reality is that China would probably have a collapse set in motion rather quickly, and given Sino-Russian relations have soured, I sincerely doubt Putin or one of his puppets wouldn't take advantage of it and stoke that fire until China was a burning heap, just because the rest of the West are also big customers of China and would be, well, in rather serious and deep trouble economically speaking if China collapsed. (Welcome to globalist economics 101 under the capitalist model.)

[Helakos]

I don't know what to say, this is just a paranoid rant from you, im sorry you feel like your surrounded by enemies and then thinking China is going to side with you(clearly have no idea about Chinese cultural values)

It's literally not paranoia. Have you actually seen any of these radicalized people? I have. There's a lot of MAGA going hand in hand with Swastika merch, among other things that generally imply these trends.

And China's biggest cultural value since they went full state-capitalist is the same as any other capitalist economy: money. If the US totally collapses, first of all, that's a mind-boggling amount of money they'd lose out on in terms of what is owed and what we keep asking for/getting from them, along with many, many corporations and government entities no longer buying from them.

Maybe, just maybe, all of our allies remaining their customers will keep them afloat, but the reality is that China would probably have a collapse set in motion rather quickly, and given Sino-Russian relations have soured, I sincerely doubt Putin or one of his puppets wouldn't take advantage of it and stoke that fire until China was a burning heap, just because the rest of the West are also big customers of China and would be, well, in rather serious and deep trouble economically speaking if China collapsed. (Welcome to globalist economics 101 under the capitalist model.)

Seeing as I have actually been in multiple MAGA marches we mostly see conservatives, libertarians and a few christian fundamentalists, literally NEVER seen a Swastika, we did have multiple South Vietnamese banners however by the local Vietnamese diaspora who joined us. I really would like to know what your talking about other than " their are Nazis everywhere bro trust me"

[The V O I D]

Seeing as I have actually been in multiple MAGA marches we mostly see conservatives, libertarians and a few christian fundamentalists, literally NEVER seen a Swastika, we did have multiple South Vietnamese banners however by the local Vietnamese diaspora who joined us. I really would like to know what your talking about other than " their are Nazis everywhere bro trust me"

So, I guess the Unite the Right Rally doesn't ring a bell? Never happened? Or, oh, wait, was that just “ANTIFA pretending” too as the QAnonists like to say? Jan 6? Jan 6 had at least one Nazi flag. Or was Jan 6 not radical far right brainwashed individuals, and instead just a bunch of random people “peacefully protesting” or some other excuse?

Explain to me where there are not neo-Nazis and fascists/radicalized far-right individuals outright infesting the GOP and all surrounding a cult of personality around 45, please. I would love to hear your explanation, because clearly we're living on different Earths.

[Helakos]

Seeing as I have actually been in multiple MAGA marches we mostly see conservatives, libertarians and a few christian fundamentalists, literally NEVER seen a Swastika, we did have multiple South Vietnamese banners however by the local Vietnamese diaspora who joined us. I really would like to know what your talking about other than " their are Nazis everywhere bro trust me"

So, I guess the Unite the Right Rally doesn't ring a bell? Never happened? Or, oh, wait, was that just “ANTIFA pretending” too as the QAnonists like to say? Jan 6? Jan 6 had at least one Nazi flag. Or was Jan 6 not radical far right brainwashed individuals, and instead just a bunch of random people “peacefully protesting” or some other excuse?

Explain to me where there are not neo-Nazis and fascists/radicalized far-right individuals outright infesting the GOP and all surrounding a cult of personality around 45, please. I would love to hear your explanation, because clearly we're living on different Earths.

Because if the GOP was “infested with neo nazis” you wouldnt be breathing right now?

[The V O I D]

So, I guess the Unite the Right Rally doesn't ring a bell? Never happened? Or, oh, wait, was that just “ANTIFA pretending” too as the QAnonists like to say? Jan 6? Jan 6 had at least one Nazi flag. Or was Jan 6 not radical far right brainwashed individuals, and instead just a bunch of random people “peacefully protesting” or some other excuse?

Explain to me where there are not neo-Nazis and fascists/radicalized far-right individuals outright infesting the GOP and all surrounding a cult of personality around 45, please. I would love to hear your explanation, because clearly we're living on different Earths.

Because if the GOP was “infested with neo nazis” you wouldnt be breathing right now?

JANUARY 6TH WAS A LITERAL ATTEMPT AT INSURRECTION/COUP AIMED AT OVERTURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T AUTHRIGHT TO YOU? WHAT PART OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVING A MASSIVE NEONAZI BASE ISN'T MAKING SENSE, HERE? DO YOU NOT SEE THE BILLS BEING PASSED TO “SECURE ELECTIONS” IN GOP STATES RIGHT NOW, GENUINE QUESTION SINCE APPARENTLY THE FAR RIGHT DOESN'T EXIST????

[Helakos]

Because if the GOP was “infested with neo nazis” you wouldnt be breathing right now?

JANUARY 6TH WAS A LITERAL ATTEMPT AT INSURRECTION/COUP AIMED AT OVERTURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T AUTHRIGHT TO YOU? WHAT PART OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVING A MASSIVE NEONAZI BASE ISN'T MAKING SENSE, HERE? DO YOU NOT SEE THE BILLS BEING PASSED TO “SECURE ELECTIONS” IN GOP STATES RIGHT NOW, GENUINE QUESTION SINCE APPARENTLY THE FAR RIGHT DOESN'T EXIST????

[Free Algerstonia]

Because if the GOP was “infested with neo nazis” you wouldnt be breathing right now?

JANUARY 6TH WAS A LITERAL ATTEMPT AT INSURRECTION/COUP AIMED AT OVERTURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T AUTHRIGHT TO YOU? WHAT PART OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVING A MASSIVE NEONAZI BASE ISN'T MAKING SENSE, HERE? DO YOU NOT SEE THE BILLS BEING PASSED TO “SECURE ELECTIONS” IN GOP STATES RIGHT NOW, GENUINE QUESTION SINCE APPARENTLY THE FAR RIGHT DOESN'T EXIST????

those people were antifa, not far-right

[The V O I D]

JANUARY 6TH WAS A LITERAL ATTEMPT AT INSURRECTION/COUP AIMED AT OVERTURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T AUTHRIGHT TO YOU? WHAT PART OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVING A MASSIVE NEONAZI BASE ISN'T MAKING SENSE, HERE? DO YOU NOT SEE THE BILLS BEING PASSED TO “SECURE ELECTIONS” IN GOP STATES RIGHT NOW, GENUINE QUESTION SINCE APPARENTLY THE FAR RIGHT DOESN'T EXIST????

Well, what else am I supposed to think you believe if you're literally not seeing any of the things going on/willfully ignoring how radicalized the GOP and its support base is at the moment? The Jan 6 MAGA insurrection/coup attempt literally had a noose built outside to “hang the traitors,” including moderate GOP politicians who tried to oppose Trump/weren't “doing enough to stop the steal.”

If that isn't radical or programmed cult-think to you, what is it? How do we fix it, what word is there other than deprogram and deradicalize? Seriously, I want some answers. Don't play coy; if you don't know the answers, just say you don't know and concede the argument.

[Helakos]

Well, what else am I supposed to think you believe if you're literally not seeing any of the things going on/willfully ignoring how radicalized the GOP and its support base is at the moment? The Jan 6 MAGA insurrection/coup attempt literally had a noose built outside to “hang the traitors,” including moderate GOP politicians who tried to oppose Trump/weren't “doing enough to stop the steal.”

If that isn't radical or programmed cult-think to you, what is it? How do we fix it, what word is there other than deprogram and deradicalize? Seriously, I want some answers. Don't play coy; if you don't know the answers, just say you don't know and concede the argument.

I think you need help and im being dead serious

[Helakos]

JANUARY 6TH WAS A LITERAL ATTEMPT AT INSURRECTION/COUP AIMED AT OVERTURNING THE 2020 ELECTION. WHAT PART OF THAT ISN'T AUTHRIGHT TO YOU? WHAT PART OF HIS SUPPORTERS HAVING A MASSIVE NEONAZI BASE ISN'T MAKING SENSE, HERE? DO YOU NOT SEE THE BILLS BEING PASSED TO “SECURE ELECTIONS” IN GOP STATES RIGHT NOW, GENUINE QUESTION SINCE APPARENTLY THE FAR RIGHT DOESN'T EXIST????

those people were antifa, not far-right

It was def not antifa more likley trump supporters riled up by the FBI

[The V O I D]

Well, what else am I supposed to think you believe if you're literally not seeing any of the things going on/willfully ignoring how radicalized the GOP and its support base is at the moment? The Jan 6 MAGA insurrection/coup attempt literally had a noose built outside to “hang the traitors,” including moderate GOP politicians who tried to oppose Trump/weren't “doing enough to stop the steal.”

If that isn't radical or programmed cult-think to you, what is it? How do we fix it, what word is there other than deprogram and deradicalize? Seriously, I want some answers. Don't play coy; if you don't know the answers, just say you don't know and concede the argument.

I think you need help and im being dead serious

How do I need help? Explain this to me. Stop dodging making an argument, stop pretending this stuff didn't happen. Either concede the argument and bow out, or address it with a counterpoint, but I really want you to consider what it means to be defending neo-Nazis/far right radicals who were threatening to hang politicians/attempted an insurrection on Jan 6 in 2021.

[The V O I D]

those people were antifa, not far-right

It was def not antifa more likley trump supporters riled up by the FBI

So, not quite full QAnon believer, more like Diet QAnon believer. Coolio, glad to know where your arguments are coming from and why you're deciding to ignore the radicalization of the GOP. It's because you're buying into their lighter/vaguely more believable propaganda.

As for Algerstonia, it seems they are buying into full QAnon conspiracy and GOP misinformation.

[Helakos]

I think you need help and im being dead serious

How do I need help? Explain this to me. Stop dodging making an argument, stop pretending this stuff didn't happen. Either concede the argument and bow out, or address it with a counterpoint, but I really want you to consider what it means to be defending neo-Nazis/far right radicals who were threatening to hang politicians/attempted an insurrection on Jan 6 in 2021.

Oh it happend just not in any of the ways your saying. And again, if we take what you say at face value, that the GOP is filled with nazis, then you would not be on nationstates because you would have been killed. If even 5% of the US population were neo nazis you would be in a world of hurt and we wouldnt have half the issues we are having. You simply cant prove your case. Your projecting “Blueanon”

[Stellar Colonies]

It was def not antifa more likley trump supporters riled up by the FBI

So, not quite full QAnon believer, more like Diet QAnon believer. Coolio, glad to know where your arguments are coming from and why you're deciding to ignore the radicalization of the GOP. It's because you're buying into their lighter/vaguely more believable propaganda.

As for Algerstonia, it seems they are buying into full QAnon conspiracy and GOP misinformation.

Alger is a shitposter.

[The V O I D]

How do I need help? Explain this to me. Stop dodging making an argument, stop pretending this stuff didn't happen. Either concede the argument and bow out, or address it with a counterpoint, but I really want you to consider what it means to be defending neo-Nazis/far right radicals who were threatening to hang politicians/attempted an insurrection on Jan 6 in 2021.

Oh it happend just not in any of the ways your saying. And again, if we take what you say at face value, that the GOP is filled with nazis, then you would not be on nationstates because you would have been killed. If even 5% of the US population were neo nazis you would be in a world of hurt and we wouldnt have half the issues we are having. You simply cant prove your case. Your projecting “Blueanon”

And every word you just said has officially disqualified your argument. There's literal video footage of what happened at Jan 6, including getting audio from the Jan 6 MAGA rioters who were talking about this stuff. It came from text messages right from the phones of Trump and his supporters that this was a potential coup, if a failed one.

It's also not as simple as you make it out to be. The GOP's actively suppressing votes/trying to “secure elections” by making it harder for people who tend to vote Dem to actually do that, which is an authoritarian/almost totalitarian measure. They're targeting minorities specifically, and making new laws that harm LGBT+ individuals as well as banning education/regulating and censoring education about racial issues. They are literally doing everything that fascists/neo-Nazis and totalitarians do before they seize total power.

They don't target political minorities openly/en masse until they have total control. If Jan 6 had become a successful coup/overturning of the election, or if they seize power en masse in the Presidency and Congress once more because of the new “electoral protection laws” that they're passing at the state level, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're planning to target the Democratic Party or other non-rightists and call it “stopping the steal forever” or some other equivalent BS.

[Helakos]

Oh it happend just not in any of the ways your saying. And again, if we take what you say at face value, that the GOP is filled with nazis, then you would not be on nationstates because you would have been killed. If even 5% of the US population were neo nazis you would be in a world of hurt and we wouldnt have half the issues we are having. You simply cant prove your case. Your projecting “Blueanon”

And every word you just said has officially disqualified your argument. There's literal video footage of what happened at Jan 6, including getting audio from the Jan 6 MAGA rioters who were talking about this stuff. It came from text messages right from the phones of Trump and his supporters that this was a potential coup, if a failed one.

It's also not as simple as you make it out to be. The GOP's actively suppressing votes/trying to “secure elections” by making it harder for people who tend to vote Dem to actually do that, which is an authoritarian/almost totalitarian measure. They're targeting minorities specifically, and making new laws that harm LGBT+ individuals as well as banning education/regulating and censoring education about racial issues. They are literally doing everything that fascists/neo-Nazis and totalitarians do before they seize total power.

They don't target political minorities openly/en masse until they have total control. If Jan 6 had become a successful coup/overturning of the election, or if they seize power en masse in the Presidency and Congress once more because of the new “electoral protection laws” that they're passing at the state level, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're planning to target the Democratic Party or other non-rightists and call it “stopping the steal forever” or some other equivalent BS.

Again you havnt really proved anything other than you can make long winded rants and conspiracy theorys. Do you even know what National Socialism is? You are quite literally a conspiracy theorist. The language you use is also something i would expect from a political extremist, which makes sense.

[The V O I D]

And every word you just said has officially disqualified your argument. There's literal video footage of what happened at Jan 6, including getting audio from the Jan 6 MAGA rioters who were talking about this stuff. It came from text messages right from the phones of Trump and his supporters that this was a potential coup, if a failed one.

It's also not as simple as you make it out to be. The GOP's actively suppressing votes/trying to “secure elections” by making it harder for people who tend to vote Dem to actually do that, which is an authoritarian/almost totalitarian measure. They're targeting minorities specifically, and making new laws that harm LGBT+ individuals as well as banning education/regulating and censoring education about racial issues. They are literally doing everything that fascists/neo-Nazis and totalitarians do before they seize total power.

They don't target political minorities openly/en masse until they have total control. If Jan 6 had become a successful coup/overturning of the election, or if they seize power en masse in the Presidency and Congress once more because of the new “electoral protection laws” that they're passing at the state level, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're planning to target the Democratic Party or other non-rightists and call it “stopping the steal forever” or some other equivalent BS.

Again you havnt really proved anything other than you can make long winded rants and conspiracy theorys. Do you even know what National Socialism is?

It's not long winded rants. I am explaining to you how what you believe is wrong and how to find evidence of that, I am explaining to you why the misinformation - however minor it is - that you believe is dangerous. You're the one who believes the FBI is responsible for what MAGA GOP/cult 45 decided to do on Jan 6, with obvious planning beforehand. There's even an ongoing commission investigating it and it keeps turning up evidence to support this fact.

And I'm starting to wonder if you know what Nazism is. But, sure, I'll play your game. Nazism is a far-right, fascist ideology that seeks to restructure the economics of society to be totally privatized, specifically totally in the hands of Party leadership rather than the government or any corporations. They seek to restructure society into an ethnically stratified system, favoring the “Aryan” (in the case of Nazi Germany, blonde-haired blue-eyed Germanic peoples; in the case of the US, just white people in general) at the top and successively rendering into second, third, and fourth class citizens everyone else, as well as reinstituting slavery as a means of economics and exterminating any races thought to be “subhuman.”

That is literally Nazism by definition of what it seeks to accomplish. Neo-Nazis in the US are trying to normalize mistreating minorities and label opposition to said mistreatment as being “dangerous.” The GOP is giving in to this neo-Nazi base, or at least many of the politicians that buy into Trumpism are, because they know who their supporters are.

It starts with making elections “more secure,” but the fine print says that means making sure only the GOP can win in states they're often dominant in already and suppressing Democrats small-scale, as well as targeting laws at minorities to criminalize being a minority effectively - rendering them second-class citizens by virtue of felony crimes getting your right to vote stripped.

Then, because state and federal districts are connected, they essentially secure Congress via gerrymandering, all while allowing the illusion of the right to vote for now; and as the opposition continues to try and stop them, they continue to be labeled and propagandized as dangerous and dissident etc. until it is normalized to believe they are a threat that needs to be stopped.

All that needs to happen then is that they try to deputize and nationalize “people of good standing” in various militias to act as paramilitaries more loyal to them than they are to the country (as the Nazis did with their paramilitary wing), to try to crush dissent even further and slowly twist the US towards authoritarianism/totalitarianism.

After that, it's just a matter of time before the more radical/actual Neo-Nazis themselves take office under the newly authoritarian US system that is centered around the GOP, and slowly but surely strip right after right, bit by bit, until they can begin exterminating minorities or imprisoning them in concentration camps (as was partially normalized with what happened to Mexicans during the Trump Presidency) without complaint.

It's not a conspiracy theory if it is active strategy being implemented step-by-step, being followed by the GOP almost in a horrifying mirror of how the Nazis took power electorally, with maybe only slightly less violence.

[Helakos]

This is by definition a conspiracy theory, this isn’t Marvels Hydra or GI Joes Cobra

Im going to head our and when i come back you wont lose your mind and run over a Republican teenager like that other guy.

[The V O I D]

This is by definition a conspiracy theory

REDMAP is not a conspiracy theory, which is what I was referring to with gerrymandering. It is an actual GOP policy: every time the census happens, starting in 2010 when REDMAP began, they are to gerrymander as much as possible to decrease the amount of Democrats in Congress as much as possible.

If you wish to believe in a fairytale where everything is alright and MAGA isn't a dangerous cult-think ideology that is going to give this country over to Neo-Nazis and fascists long term, that is your right. But don't try to dismiss all evidence that you can literally find with five seconds of research just because you wish to believe in that fairy tale.

I'm done arguing with you; clearly, you are not willing to listen and are just going to dismiss anything I say as a conspiracy theory instead of trying to refute the argument or bring up counterevidence to support your claim.

EDIT: in response to your edit, I guess you're also ignoring that your side has done the exact same thing. Except when the Republican trucker ran over an entire protest against the neo-nazis/against MAGA, he killed at least one person and injured dozens of others.

[Sordhau]

This is by definition a conspiracy theory

REDMAP is not a conspiracy theory, which is what I was referring to with gerrymandering. It is an actual GOP policy: every time the census happens, starting in 2010 when REDMAP began, they are to gerrymander as much as possible to decrease the amount of Democrats in Congress as much as possible.

If you wish to believe in a fairytale where everything is alright and MAGA isn't a dangerous cult-think ideology that is going to give this country over to Neo-Nazis and fascists long term, that is your right. But don't try to dismiss all evidence that you can literally find with five seconds of research just because you wish to believe in that fairy tale.

I'm done arguing with you; clearly, you are not willing to listen and are just going to dismiss anything I say as a conspiracy theory instead of trying to refute the argument or bring up counterevidence to support your claim.

Why were you expecting honest debate from a Fascist in the first place?

[The V O I D]

REDMAP is not a conspiracy theory, which is what I was referring to with gerrymandering. It is an actual GOP policy: every time the census happens, starting in 2010 when REDMAP began, they are to gerrymander as much as possible to decrease the amount of Democrats in Congress as much as possible.

If you wish to believe in a fairytale where everything is alright and MAGA isn't a dangerous cult-think ideology that is going to give this country over to Neo-Nazis and fascists long term, that is your right. But don't try to dismiss all evidence that you can literally find with five seconds of research just because you wish to believe in that fairy tale.

I'm done arguing with you; clearly, you are not willing to listen and are just going to dismiss anything I say as a conspiracy theory instead of trying to refute the argument or bring up counterevidence to support your claim.

Why were you expecting honest debate from a Fascist in the first place?

TBH, I was kind of hoping they weren't and that they were just a person who was genuinely uninformed or genuinely weren't that deep into misinformation. I was wrong about that, at least, apparently.