Elizabeth II / Charles III megathread

[Estados Socialistas Unidos de Iberia]

Ding dong! The witch is dead!

[Farnhamia]

Ding dong! The witch is dead!

Knock it off. If you can't contribute constructively, don't post.

[Australian rePublic]

The indigenous people gaining more power would actually mean the monarchy would be kept not ditched. Many indigenous people strongly support the monarchy in New Zealand and Canada and most likely Australia too.


Support for the monarchy is at 30% while in New Zealand support is at 44%. It’s clear that the monarchy is much more liked in New Zealand than Australia.

And this is shown especially in that several members of both major Australian political parties are republicans and the current PM even has a minister for the republic, who’s job it is to guide Australia to becoming a republic.

Not in Australia. Unlike the other realms, Australian governments pre- and post-confederation never actually negotiated or signed any treaties with the Aboriginal peoples. Many didn't even see them as separate nations, so their First Nations have a lot less to lose and a lot more to gain by an Australian Republic.

The Aboriginals were originally seen as a separate humanoid species, similar to Neanderthals or Homo floresiensis. That's not only wrong, but also idiotic, but that's the way it was. But the thing is, first nations treaty and monarchy aren't mutually exclusive. You can have both

[Shrillland]

Not in Australia. Unlike the other realms, Australian governments pre- and post-confederation never actually negotiated or signed any treaties with the Aboriginal peoples. Many didn't even see them as separate nations, so their First Nations have a lot less to lose and a lot more to gain by an Australian Republic.

The Aboriginals were originally seen as a separate humanoid species, similar to Neanderthals or Homo floresiensis. That's not only wrong, but also idiotic, but that's the way it was. But the thing is, first nations treaty and monarchy aren't mutually exclusive. You can have both

You can, yes, but the point is that there aren't any currently operative, so there's no need for the nations in question to renegotiate them with a new republican government that would likely have an unfair advantage in how changes could be made. That's what the Maori and the Canadian First Nations are afraid of.

[Australian rePublic]

The Aboriginals were originally seen as a separate humanoid species, similar to Neanderthals or Homo floresiensis. That's not only wrong, but also idiotic, but that's the way it was. But the thing is, first nations treaty and monarchy aren't mutually exclusive. You can have both

You can, yes, but the point is that there aren't any currently operative, so there's no need for the nations in question to renegotiate them with a new republican government that would likely have an unfair advantage in how changes could be made. That's what the Maori and the Canadian First Nations are afraid of.

And if there were a republic, how would that guarantee a treaty, and to whom would it be accountable?

[Shrillland]

You can, yes, but the point is that there aren't any currently operative, so there's no need for the nations in question to renegotiate them with a new republican government that would likely have an unfair advantage in how changes could be made. That's what the Maori and the Canadian First Nations are afraid of.

And if there were a republic, how would that guarantee a treaty, and to whom would it be accountable?

It wouldn't guarantee a treaty, I've never said that it would. I was just pointing out that since no treaties have yet materialised, there's a lot less reason for Aboriginal people to want to keep the monarchy in Australia than there is in other Commonwealth realms.

[Tsardom of Alaska]

Damn, this is crazy to think about as an Alaskan. When she started her reign, the state was still a territory with a population of 130,000, now we have six times that.

[Hiram Land]

Damn, this is crazy to think about as an Alaskan. When she started her reign, the state was still a territory with a population of 130,000, now we have six times that.

Not to mention Anchorage Airport was very popular.

[Perikuresu]

Damn man, everybody talking about an Indigenous Treaty in Australia without mentioning the Uluru Statement and the referendum of the enshrinement of an Aboriginal voice to Parliament (which has been kept deliberately vague by the PM)

[Fractalnavel]

Damn, this is crazy to think about as an Alaskan. When she started her reign, the state was still a territory with a population of 130,000, now we have six times that.

Consider global population growth too. 1952 ~2.5B 2022 ~8B

[Hiram Land]

Damn, this is crazy to think about as an Alaskan. When she started her reign, the state was still a territory with a population of 130,000, now we have six times that.

Consider global population growth too. 1952 ~2.5B 2022 ~8B

Isn't she the first person to submit an email around the world? Or is that just Britain?

[Shrillland]

Damn man, everybody talking about an Indigenous Treaty in Australia without mentioning the Uluru Statement and the referendum of the enshrinement of an Aboriginal voice to Parliament (which has been kept deliberately vague by the PM)

We haven't forgotten or are ignoring any of that, we were just drawing the comparisons between Australia and the rest of the Commonwealth in regards to how such thing affect republican sentiments. And, lest we forget the purpose of this thread, how those sentiments could grow in the advent of the new king.

[Celritannia]

Is there a significant impact of it? I've never fully understood the relationship between the crown and commonwealth states. Is it a symbolic gesture, severing that last tie of British colonialism, or does the crown actually have an important role in government?

Australia and New Zealand have a strong as a home rule government can possibly have. I seen that support for republicanism in Australia and New Zealand has to do more with past racist atrocities committed by the crown. Native populations in those countries are gaining more and more political power

It's not a home rule.
They are independent sovereign nations that just have a Monarchy as head of state, that being King Charle III of New Zealand, and Australia, respectively.

[Luminesa]

Name one right-wing Republican in the UK

Cromwell. ;^)

Ew, gosh no.

[Luminesa]

Really?! That is surprising.

Not really. All treaties with the indigenous people are held through the crown not the government. And many Māori are concerned that the government might not honor those treaties while at current they have to or get smacked down by the monarch

I believe this is also a concern for many First Nations people as well if I'm not mistaken.

[New Rogernomics]

Australia and New Zealand have a strong as a home rule government can possibly have. I seen that support for republicanism in Australia and New Zealand has to do more with past racist atrocities committed by the crown. Native populations in those countries are gaining more and more political power

It's not a home rule.
They are independent sovereign nations that just have a Monarchy as head of state, that being King Charle III of New Zealand, and Australia, respectively.

I don't think I'd use the term "home rule" for sure, though effectively the governor general is nothing more than a figurehead appointed by the government to be the "official seat warmer for the monarch" as someone I know calls it. Effectively, the average citizen doesn't notice it, and it doesn't impact domestic or foreign policy.

The monarch technically has the power to intervene in the politics of Australia and New Zealand, but this would be really unlikely or unheard of, and probably give the Republicans a good reason to give the whole thing the boot if they ever tried to.

[Rusozak]

Really?! That is surprising.

Not really. All treaties with the indigenous people are held through the crown not the government. And many Māori are concerned that the government might not honor those treaties while at current they have to or get smacked down by the monarch

That makes sense. Could still do with a new flag, though.

[The Alma Mater]

Name one right-wing Republican in the UK

Cromwell. ;^)

Cromwell was very strongly in favour of fair trials and jurisprudence - and very much against "let us just pretend the law says X because it is convenient for our great leader"

[Shrillland]

Not really. All treaties with the indigenous people are held through the crown not the government. And many Māori are concerned that the government might not honor those treaties while at current they have to or get smacked down by the monarch

That makes sense. Could still do with a new flag, though.

They already rejected it as a waste of time.

[Big Bad Blue]

Say what you will about Elizabeth II of England and I of Scotland she wasn't an actual tyrant. Personal and imperialistic shortcomings aside she'll be what is known in proper British public schools as "a good Queen."

But isn't it a fact that the USA fought a long and costly war so we Yanks wouldn't have to acknowledge the authority of an hereditary monarch? Is no one else shocked and appalled at our nation's glorious flag being pulled down to half-staff to memorialize the death of a direct descendant of mad King George III? Fly it proudly say I.

[Snake Worship Football Club]

Charles isn't perfect but he is very environment-oriented and advocates climate-change awareness. He leads by example in that regard. Surely he will play an influential role there.

He isn't perfect, but he went to Paris himself in 1997 to bring poor Diana home. They had been divorced for two years (there's no gossip like royals Gossip) and he could easily have washed his hands of it, but she was still the mother of his children. If that's not the decent thing to do then I don't know what is.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

And, although they’re in the wrong, I cannot truly blame them. However those are not the people I’m talking about. I’m talking about Westerners who have read about communism on Wikipedia, and have come to the ridiculous conclusion that Monarchies are inherently evil, and find joy in the death of Her Majesty despite never having undergone any of the tragic events that you have detailed. The people that you regularly find here on NS.

I mean, monarchies are inherently undemocratic, and a head of state should reflect the values of the state they represent.
Oh wait, now that "Westminster Democracy" and "Capitalism" thing makes sense now.

The Head of State should be apolitical, so that they could unite and represent their nation more effectively. Constitutional monarchs can be apolitical, and they mostly are. But politicians, believe it or not, can’t.

[Big Bad Blue]

Charles isn't perfect but he is very environment-oriented and advocates climate-change awareness. He leads by example in that regard. Surely he will play an influential role there.

He isn't perfect, but he went to Paris himself in 1997 to bring poor Diana home. They had been divorced for two years (there's no gossip like royals Gossip) and he could easily have washed his hands of it, but she was still the mother of his children. If that's not the decent thing to do then I don't know what is.

It would also have been decent not to have schtupped another woman while they were still married. Not as bad as plenty other Kings and Princes. Just sayin'.

[The Alma Mater]

Charles isn't perfect but he is very environment-oriented and advocates climate-change awareness. He leads by example in that regard. Surely he will play an influential role there.

He isn't perfect, but he went to Paris himself in 1997 to bring poor Diana home. They had been divorced for two years (there's no gossip like royals Gossip) and he could easily have washed his hands of it, but she was still the mother of his children. If that's not the decent thing to do then I don't know what is.

It would also have been decent not to have schtupped another woman while they were still married. Not as bad as plenty other Kings and Princes. Just sayin'.

Then again, is having many mistresses not a part of the royal tradition?

[Big Bad Blue]

It would also have been decent not to have schtupped another woman while they were still married. Not as bad as plenty other Kings and Princes. Just sayin'.

Then again, is having many mistresses not a part of the royal tradition?

Just as strongly as rum, buggery and the lash are the traditions of the Royal Navy.