The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

[Iskanistan]

Depends on what civil rights you're talking about.

In the case of the BLM movement, ending systemic racism.

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

[Torrocca]

I feel like at this point the only place I'm seeing Andrew Tate's name is here.

Dude fell off fast.

Hopefully he gets donked soon enough for that whole sex trafficking/sexual slavery (?) thing.

[Ayytaly]

In the case of the BLM movement, ending systemic racism.

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

It all started ten years ago when the media labeled a very indigenous-looking mestizo as a "white Hispanic."

[Page]

In the case of the BLM movement, ending systemic racism.

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

From whose perspective? From the perspective of white people who were blissfully ignorant to systemic racism a decade ago and now have to face it?

Are there many BIPOC voices arguing that racial tension in the US has worsened?

[Ayytaly]

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

From whose perspective? From the perspective of white people who were blissfully ignorant to systemic racism a decade ago and now have to face it?

Are there many BIPOC voices arguing that racial tension in the US has worsened?

I am one. And yes. The problem is white folk don't seem interested in joining forces with non-black minorities. That alone is the crux of racial tensions.

[Existential Cats]

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

From whose perspective? From the perspective of white people who were blissfully ignorant to systemic racism a decade ago and now have to face it?

Are there many BIPOC voices arguing that racial tension in the US has worsened?

Yes.

From the perspective of people who have lived under Trump and have seen how abysmally he handled racial issues.

Even though this article is from 2019, I really can't imagine opinions have changed much over the past three years

[Ayytaly]

From whose perspective? From the perspective of white people who were blissfully ignorant to systemic racism a decade ago and now have to face it?

Are there many BIPOC voices arguing that racial tension in the US has worsened?

Yes.

From the perspective of people who have lived under Trump and have seen how abysmally he handled racial issues.

Even though this article is from 2019, I really can't imagine opinions have changed much over the past three years

I just replied to that very same article. Why the hell is it so damn centered on black people? That in itself hurts us non-black minorities because it makes us seem secondary and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

[Existential Cats]

Yes.

From the perspective of people who have lived under Trump and have seen how abysmally he handled racial issues.

Even though this article is from 2019, I really can't imagine opinions have changed much over the past three years

I just replied to that very same article. Why the hell is it so damn centered on black people? That in itself hurts us non-black minorities because it makes us seem secondary and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

That's a whole 'nother story, but the crux of the matter is it's not just whites who view racial relations as decaying.

[Ayytaly]

I just replied to that very same article. Why the hell is it so damn centered on black people? That in itself hurts us non-black minorities because it makes us seem secondary and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

That's a whole 'nother story, but the crux of the matter is it's not just whites who view racial relations as decaying.

Yeah, but if you ask any Asian and/or Latino in NY or Cali in general they'll tell you whites at worst are merely bystanders. The relations of Asians and Latinos with blacks has been rocked ever since the BLM movements (in response to George "white Hispanic" Zimmermann) and anti-Asian attacks have been either prioritized or ignored by white liberals depending on whether or not it helps the black community save face. If more (white) liberal politicians and higher-ups get overthrown like Chesa Boudin did in San Francisco race relationships would actually improve, provided that their replacements actually hold criminals accountable regardless of their race.

[Prima Scriptura]

I first want to say that I have level three autism and multiple other health diagnoses. So, please save the "weaponizing mental illness" crap.

Now that I got that out of the way, would it be fair to say that many incels have untreated/under-treated/diagnosed mental illness, such as Autism or any other disability that can impair social skills. I would say "yes". Now, I would like to know that many of these men look up to people like Jordan Peterson, and others like him, which they talk a lot of self-improvement and are critical of a "victim mindset". Do these men who call themselves incels realize that they have a victim mindset as defined by themselves and the philosophers they admire?

Honestly, I don't think that feminism or anything well help these men. These men need professional help, as in mental health professional. This needs to approached medically like how addiction should be approached

I would also like to dive deeper what type of relationship they had with their parental figures

[El Lazaro]

In the case of the BLM movement, ending systemic racism.

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

Racial tensions=/=systemic racism

Though this can be unclear in political rhetoric because explicit racial hatred and systematically racist policies are often mixed in with each other, but one does not require the other.

Its not like ethnic tensions in the US got less tho in the last decade. Quite the opposite.

From whose perspective? From the perspective of white people who were blissfully ignorant to systemic racism a decade ago and now have to face it?

Are there many BIPOC voices arguing that racial tension in the US has worsened?

BIPOC will never stop reading as “bisexual people of color” in my head. But racial tensions are very obviously higher; 2016 was a second 2001 for hate crimes and the spread of far-right talking points has destigmatized open political racism. I think it’s less about people becoming more racist, and more about emboldening racial hatred. For a lot of people who felt their views were socially unacceptable, Trump “called it like it was” when it came to their prejudices.

[Stellar Colonies]

I first want to say that I have level three autism and multiple other health diagnoses. So, please save the "weaponizing mental illness" crap.

I’ve also got ASD.

Now that I got that out of the way, would it be fair to say that many incels have untreated/under-treated/diagnosed mental illness, such as Autism or any other disability that can impair social skills. I would say "yes". Now, I would like to know that many of these men look up to people like Jordan Peterson, and others like him, which they talk a lot of self-improvement and are critical of a "victim mindset". Do these men who call themselves incels realize that they have a victim mindset as defined by themselves and the philosophers they admire?

Honestly, I don't think that feminism or anything well help these men. These men need professional help, as in mental health professional. This needs to approached medically like how addiction should be approached

I would also like to dive deeper what type of relationship they had with their parental figures

I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a factor, specifically as a beginning trigger that’s basically an on-ramp. Starts with them thinking there’s something to it if their social skills are not ideal for functioning in the expectations of that social realm, which are frankly baffling to me personally when looking in from the outside (anecdote!) and could probably be to them as well. Then from there the positive feedback loop of them applying the ideology, alienating people, and then doubling down would do most of the rest.

I did just find this article discussing the subject, but haven’t read it yet so can’t speak as to how good it is as a reference.

[Prima Scriptura]

I first want to say that I have level three autism and multiple other health diagnoses. So, please save the "weaponizing mental illness" crap.

I’ve also got ASD.

Now that I got that out of the way, would it be fair to say that many incels have untreated/under-treated/diagnosed mental illness, such as Autism or any other disability that can impair social skills. I would say "yes". Now, I would like to know that many of these men look up to people like Jordan Peterson, and others like him, which they talk a lot of self-improvement and are critical of a "victim mindset". Do these men who call themselves incels realize that they have a victim mindset as defined by themselves and the philosophers they admire?

Honestly, I don't think that feminism or anything well help these men. These men need professional help, as in mental health professional. This needs to approached medically like how addiction should be approached

I would also like to dive deeper what type of relationship they had with their parental figures

I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a factor, specifically as a beginning trigger that’s basically an on-ramp. Starts with them thinking there’s something to it if their social skills are not ideal for functioning in the expectations of that social realm, which are frankly baffling to me personally when looking in from the outside (anecdote!) and could probably be to them as well. Then from there the positive feedback loop of them applying the ideology, alienating people, and then doubling down would do most of the rest.

I did just find this article discussing the subject, but haven’t read it yet so can’t speak as to how good it is as a reference.

I think many of them are extremely hostile to mental health care, and as you said, belong to communities that reinforce their type of thinking. If I was heterosexual, I would probably be an incel, because I fit many of the common characteristics. I did NOT receive any mental health care for about four years. After receiving therapy and proper treatment, I have improved quite a bit. I went from daily suicidal ideation about year ago, to never having them. I went from doing literally nothing but sleeping, eating and smoking weed everyday, all day and now I’m going to college and receiving in A grade so far in all of my courses.

The only difference is that I only surrounded myself with the incel types for a short while (it was late 2015-2016, and I was surrounding myself with the absolute worst parts of #GamerGate), but I got out because it was fucking awful.

[Ayytaly]

I wonder if there are any incel scientists. Particularly virologists.

[Rusozak]

I wonder if there are any incel scientists. Particularly virologists.

Like, a scientist who is an incel, or a scientist OF incels? I think the latter would just be a sociologist.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

I feel like at this point the only place I'm seeing Andrew Tate's name is here.

Dude fell off fast.

Hopefully he gets donked soon enough for that whole sex trafficking/sexual slavery (?) thing.

I've never heard of him until I read this thread. Sure, I'm no longer in school, but still. His demographic seems to have been a specific age group, and that is waning.

I wonder if there are any incel scientists. Particularly virologists.

Like, a scientist who is an incel, or a scientist OF incels? I think the latter would just be a sociologist.

He's talking about a scientist who is an incel. I'm sure some do exist, though, I wouldn't expect it to be a large group.

[Rauritania]

Yeah I see this post here is saying "we hate women," that's an example incel radicalization right here. Can't believe I already see it so fast, that's an example of how bad Society has become from this contagious redpill-misogyny phenomenon.

And it's spreading to little kids, with old ass incel groomers grooming young preteen and teenage boys into this spiteful mindset.

Can you imagine why suddenly there are western feminists? Because misogynistic hateful beliefs like these became widespread among Western men.

I started this thread expecting more to agree or to say "I've never heard of Andrew Tate; what social phenomenon?" But right here is, an live example of incel social phenomenon in action. It's become more widespread than ever.

Obviously since I'm a woman, I would want to look for ways to suppress this malicious mindset infecting men due to Redpill and Manosphere, since it's bad for me (lol) but it's bad for all fellow women. It will disadvantage us, take away our freedom and resources and get all of us killed, or forced into surrogate farms (worse than legalized rape). No sane, non-brainwashed woman wants that for herself. Some of us might not care about if it happens to other women, but that's stupid thinking, because if it happens to all other women (their rights taken), it will happen to her as well.

Anyway, if this ends up happening, western civilization will GO backwards. The Muslim Sharia Law nations like Pakistan with 0 rights are Backwards developmentally, there's violence 24/7 on the streets, stabbings and murders of neighbors, honor killings and beheadings of female rape victims. Do notice those are the LEAST developed countries and are Shitholes, because the men are too busy oppressing (or torturing) women, that they don't stop and spend their time doing better things like increasing their standard of living for everyone as a collective.

Anyway, I'm worried about the future state of humanity on this side, and no blaming women isn't the answer, men still hold majority of leadership and political positions and majority of the Money, and Tech companies and softwares and platforms and internet. I'm not even blaming men specifically, just want us to brainstorm what to regard this Misogyny Incel Phenomenon, plenty of Andrew Tate's have been around for the past Decade (in a rampant increase most recently), only Andrew Tate gained notoriety but Andrew Tate copies have always been here recently. (The mass shooters, and the Redpillers who are Pick-Up Artists), and the
men who are entering the workforce and sabotaging women intentionally (at work) whether through harassment or work sabotage. That's not good to see. Things will be getting worse in the coming future.

Inceldom /hatred of women is already this Ubiquitous. Among Teenage boys, kids, men, even among the ignorant women who are wanting to get those incels approvals. (That's why we sometimes see women defending misogynists and helping covering up their husbands rape crimes. Or groomed girls following orders from the incels.)

It's a dangerous Philosophy. I think America and UK and the West, needs to do something about it.

Otherwise, this entire society is going to collapse within the next 1-2 decades and all disgusting gorey crime and pedophilia and sex trafficking will be the new normal. e.e

(Speaking of pedophilia, underage Child marriages with old ass groomers is still legal in most States in America. Not sure about the UK or Ireland or Europe though. It's definitely already legal in shithole countries.)

The incels had been defending these laws for a long time.

You might want to take a look at the 2008 atheism plus split and the online antagonism folks like anitia did. I graduated hs in 2013 and was pretty liberal . You can verify via my past post history . Any ways in 2013 suddenly many young men entered college where all we heard were men are bad our video games or hobbies were sexist and everything we did was wrong . Like it was non stop. Often time the information about video games was straight up fake ex anita claiming you got points for killing women in hitman or you cant see batmans ass etc . A lot of young mens popular media was attacked and crowds from tumbler etc flooded onto other sites like redit etc to enforce this negative “feminist” agenda. This created a hardline in nerd culture . Like ngl yall know your average warhammer 40 k dude and weebs were not pulling in any woman , so for us in that community it felt like the peak of absurdity . Throw in a few high profile fake rape claims which blew up not to mention how everything in comics and games had to be fixed for being “problematic.” ex claiming Kara Zor-El ( super girl) and laura croft were over sexualized while ignoring the fact every man in comics looks like he is chiseled from pure clomid and testosterone. Yes its comics we like hot sexy men and women in comics and games.” .

To the more political front we had folks like Hillary saying “women are the main victims of war”. That comment not withstanding we than had policy roll outs of vauge and unclear guides to sexual interactions in college. Ex in one assembly we were told any amount of booze means no consent and its always the man who is the aggressor if any booze is drank. Also consent could be withdrawn post sex so now we were put in a huge bind where we had to treat woman like a potential bomb . Its pretty scary when your 18 years old have social anxiety and than your college makes you sit through a hey if you hug your date or make a mistake or have booze its sex assault. It allowed for no human error wiggle room . Ex i would not classify a misinterpreted kiss thats rejected as the same as rape. Like wise if i have had a few beers and so has my partner if she gives consent and i give consent there should not be an issue as we are both adults who know booze gets us drunk.”

video on lies about video game promoted by feminist in early 12-14 era . Fact is its kinda the feminist who blew it up they looked for a demographic of genetic losers to poke gamers . Issue was is they didn’t think through that gamers were a large profitable audience who was easy to throw content to . As such guys like tate moved in and sucked up loads of profit .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRSaLZidWI

rape claim
https://apnews.com/article/ct-state-wir ... 29427b213e

Yeah, society can't see it's own hypocrisy there.

One recent victim of "problematic" characters was the Jessica Rabbit character.

[Rauritania]

Inceldom is a dangerous cult.

Much like Jim Jones Peoples Temple was a cult.

It's leaders should be arrested and the followers rehabilitated.

a good part is hard facts . We know historically less than 60 percent of males reproduced throughout much of human history . 1850-1960s was a historical aberration with regards to male success . For men we are returning to a more normative economic and reproductive model with a higher rate of losers than winners. This will likely correspond with a higher rate of competition induced violence in society. For examples of high competition societies look at early colonial america from the 1600s-1800 where gender ratios could be as high as 5-4 males per woman . homicide rates have been est as high as 36 per 100k. Humans are just animals and tbh the most dangerous animal is a young male trying to find a spot in a hierarchy. If we are to take evolutionary psychology seriously we know pursuit activities( diversions) will not be successful for controlling men’s violence due to low social standing. People are not dumb and pretty quickly pick up when they are at the bottom of the shit pile and when people are trying to pacify them through distractions.

edit: It must also be said there is an inherent dismissive cruelty in ignoring incels. Society is trying to maintain an absurdly high economic profit off most men while than denying any social or economic gain while ignoring a real human need for sex . Sex is as necessary as water for a healthy mental development of a human . It reinforces positive social roles. When one has no connection to sex they also have no connection to the positive social roles for it . If you see incels as such an issue your only real solution is a pretty regular and large decimation of the male population. It can be argued the wars between great powers in the 1500-1945 served as such . It should be noted these wars were regular and often enough to regularly cull the male population in europe to create a larger female than male population. Realistically you cannot reform or fix incels as they are a creation of structural issues and are not an individual psychological aberration.

We must also realize this is not a cult that is based on fantasy there are some pretty hard facts its based on . A lot of it is based on statistical evidence from psychological studies done on dating websites and backed up by more focused group studies and historical observations. You won’t de program incels by isolating them and essentially yelling at them they are wrong . Also how would you de program folks? Tell them their entire life experience is wrong and they are bad? Just think of the logistics of that you would need to apprehend millions of men isolate them in facilities under observation and than find a way to quite honestly utterly fing break their grasp on reality and their relationship to it. Quite frankly id rather take a 9mm to the Medulla oblongata and be thrown in a ditch .

And I have personally struggled with perpetual singleness or no sex partner since high school and I am now 30, despite aspiring to have at least one experience. Part of it is my own doing I admit, but it is absurd to out of hand dismiss that there are structural things at play. Millions of men are meeting together and discovering the same pattern experience with other men. Why would millions of men that have a shared common experience be wrong or bad or making shit up about their claims?

[Rauritania]

I doubt they hate conventionally unattractive women or elderly women, but that's because they're not interested in them sexually.

I don't think sex is the primary factor here. Sure, it's a big deal amongst incels AFAIK but if the core issue here is that they are constantly rejected and repudiated for looks and other factors by most women they know or ever met and developed a strong loathing of themselves and others (to the point of sociopathy) I'm sure they'll take the "ugly" girl if it means actually feeling loved for once.

Even then, the "ugly" girl or the "plain" girl would be seen as non-optimal, like getting a cheap ripped-off vehicle.

[Rauritania]

I don't think sex is the primary factor here. Sure, it's a big deal amongst incels AFAIK but if the core issue here is that they are constantly rejected and repudiated for looks and other factors by most women they know or ever met and developed a strong loathing of themselves and others (to the point of sociopathy) I'm sure they'll take the "ugly" girl if it means actually feeling loved for once.

Hardly…. They believe they deserve supermodels, henceforth they they are involuntary celibate.

I think that's a strawman.

[Rusozak]

I don't think sex is the primary factor here. Sure, it's a big deal amongst incels AFAIK but if the core issue here is that they are constantly rejected and repudiated for looks and other factors by most women they know or ever met and developed a strong loathing of themselves and others (to the point of sociopathy) I'm sure they'll take the "ugly" girl if it means actually feeling loved for once.

Even then, the "ugly" girl or the "plain" girl would be seen as non-optimal, like getting a cheap ripped-off vehicle.

And if that's how they view women then they'll be rejected by all of them.

[Ayytaly]

a good part is hard facts . We know historically less than 60 percent of males reproduced throughout much of human history . 1850-1960s was a historical aberration with regards to male success . For men we are returning to a more normative economic and reproductive model with a higher rate of losers than winners. This will likely correspond with a higher rate of competition induced violence in society. For examples of high competition societies look at early colonial america from the 1600s-1800 where gender ratios could be as high as 5-4 males per woman . homicide rates have been est as high as 36 per 100k. Humans are just animals and tbh the most dangerous animal is a young male trying to find a spot in a hierarchy. If we are to take evolutionary psychology seriously we know pursuit activities( diversions) will not be successful for controlling men’s violence due to low social standing. People are not dumb and pretty quickly pick up when they are at the bottom of the shit pile and when people are trying to pacify them through distractions.

edit: It must also be said there is an inherent dismissive cruelty in ignoring incels. Society is trying to maintain an absurdly high economic profit off most men while than denying any social or economic gain while ignoring a real human need for sex . Sex is as necessary as water for a healthy mental development of a human . It reinforces positive social roles. When one has no connection to sex they also have no connection to the positive social roles for it . If you see incels as such an issue your only real solution is a pretty regular and large decimation of the male population. It can be argued the wars between great powers in the 1500-1945 served as such . It should be noted these wars were regular and often enough to regularly cull the male population in europe to create a larger female than male population. Realistically you cannot reform or fix incels as they are a creation of structural issues and are not an individual psychological aberration.

We must also realize this is not a cult that is based on fantasy there are some pretty hard facts its based on . A lot of it is based on statistical evidence from psychological studies done on dating websites and backed up by more focused group studies and historical observations. You won’t de program incels by isolating them and essentially yelling at them they are wrong . Also how would you de program folks? Tell them their entire life experience is wrong and they are bad? Just think of the logistics of that you would need to apprehend millions of men isolate them in facilities under observation and than find a way to quite honestly utterly fing break their grasp on reality and their relationship to it. Quite frankly id rather take a 9mm to the Medulla oblongata and be thrown in a ditch .

And I have personally struggled with perpetual singleness or no sex partner since high school and I am now 30, despite aspiring to have at least one experience. Part of it is my own doing I admit, but it is absurd to out of hand dismiss that there are structural things at play. Millions of men are meeting together and discovering the same pattern experience with other men. Why would millions of men that have a shared common experience be wrong or bad or making shit up about their claims?

The West gonna West.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

I try to be as social as possible i actually was a president of the boxing club on campus. It just never worked out with dynamics. Folks always dated someone else, i bare no ill will for this but tbh i am mostly treated as a non sexual entity . Folks tell me i look good and am fun to be with but at the end of the day i go home alone. I just assume I am undesirable in someway . Thats life though it is not fair and never will be.

If you're a man, the social expectation a lot of men and women, since I'm not assuming your sexual orientation here, might have is that you'll make the first move in initiating a romantic relationship. Mind you, I understand and appreciate the arguments folks make about that being antiquated and unfair, but surveys routinely show that most women are unwilling to ask men out. I doubt there's anything particularly wrong with you. A lot of the incels who have gained notoriety have been average-looking or even slightly above average-looking. They just had a chip on their shoulders about not having had a relationship by twenty and serious issues with socialization and confidence. A LOT of men and WOMEN are in similar situations. And it's not a hopeless situation. Heck, one of my sister's former coworkers met her boyfriend when he was twenty six. Guy had never dated. They're married now.

So did he lie to her about his amount of sexual experience?

If so, how does she feel about a relationship built on a lie?

If not, how did he know she'd be willing to date him despite a lack of it, compared to all the other guys out there? For that matter, how does he know she loves him even now, given the commonality of the use of "virgin" as an insult?

[Noob Topia]

Wtf is this i think you all should go outside for a bit

[Stellar Colonies]

If you're a man, the social expectation a lot of men and women, since I'm not assuming your sexual orientation here, might have is that you'll make the first move in initiating a romantic relationship. Mind you, I understand and appreciate the arguments folks make about that being antiquated and unfair, but surveys routinely show that most women are unwilling to ask men out. I doubt there's anything particularly wrong with you. A lot of the incels who have gained notoriety have been average-looking or even slightly above average-looking. They just had a chip on their shoulders about not having had a relationship by twenty and serious issues with socialization and confidence. A LOT of men and WOMEN are in similar situations. And it's not a hopeless situation. Heck, one of my sister's former coworkers met her boyfriend when he was twenty six. Guy had never dated. They're married now.

So did he lie to her about his amount of sexual experience?

If so, how does she feel about a relationship built on a lie?

If not, how did he know she'd be willing to date him despite a lack of it, compared to all the other guys out there? For that matter, how does he know she loves him even now, given the commonality of the use of "virgin" as an insult?

Sometimes, two people just like each other.