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The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

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Fahran
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Posts: 18103
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:08 am

Crysuko wrote:"Morals" = my brand of reactionary horse manure. "morals" have been used since forever to argue against any kind of social progress.

Morals and ethics have also been used since forever to argue in favor of any kind of social progress, at least if the people involved were thus inclined.
"Trump is the concrete universal." - Hegel
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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7206
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:15 am

Fahran wrote:
Crysuko wrote:"Morals" = my brand of reactionary horse manure. "morals" have been used since forever to argue against any kind of social progress.

Morals and ethics have also been used since forever to argue in favor of any kind of social progress, at least if the people involved were thus inclined.

Thus proving that "morals" is a nothing statement which shouldn't be taken as any kind of argument either way
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Fahran
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Posts: 18103
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:20 am

Crysuko wrote:
Fahran wrote:Morals and ethics have also been used since forever to argue in favor of any kind of social progress, at least if the people involved were thus inclined.

Thus proving that "morals" is a nothing statement which shouldn't be taken as any kind of argument either way

Not without additional details. Hence why I asked. :p
"Trump is the concrete universal." - Hegel
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Techocracy101010
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Posts: 245
Founded: May 04, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Techocracy101010 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:05 pm

Morals like religion really gets argued over in a pointless manner because everyone thinks they are right with no real evidence. The only absolute moral thing i can say is do not inflict un needed suffering upon others but even that is subjective. As for the moral decay of the west, we genocided millions we killed enslaved and raped like every other civilization. We let the poor starve and die in the streets , our history is built on blood and suffering as that is human. I will not deem present year any less moral than when it was legal to lynch black children from trees or groups would hunt minorities for fun. Nor will i say we are less moral than when our society chose to let the old the sick and frail die alone in the back alley slums of our cities. Nor can i say the past was better . Rape rates were very high for most of our history was that moral? Was the higher homicide rates during 1700-19990 more moral? What is this morality? A simple sanitized holywood myth of the past.


You want a past that never existed
Last edited by Techocracy101010 on Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Northern Socialist Council Republics
Minister
 
Posts: 2433
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:52 pm

Fahran wrote:I guess that brings up another question. How often do y'all put yourselves into social situations? And, follow-up, how many people have you asked out in the past month? And in the past year?

Rarely, and none.

It's not like I have no interest in dating, mind you: I asked out a few people in secondary school - none successfully, alas. But since then I started studying at a technical institution in a highly social-conservative country, and that just took what little interest I had in other people (I wasn't a particularly extroverted person to begin with) and murdered it. These days I only put myself into social situations if I absolutely have to in order to avoid being the odd-one-out amongst my coworkers.

Honestly in many ways it feels like I'm just becoming one of those bitter people whose lives peaked in senior school.
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Techocracy101010
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Posts: 245
Founded: May 04, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Techocracy101010 » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:54 pm

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
Fahran wrote:I guess that brings up another question. How often do y'all put yourselves into social situations? And, follow-up, how many people have you asked out in the past month? And in the past year?

Rarely, and none.

It's not like I have no interest in dating, mind you: I asked out a few people in secondary school - none successfully, alas. But since then I started studying at a technical institution in a highly social-conservative country, and that just took what little interest I had in other people (I wasn't a particularly extroverted person to begin with) and murdered it. These days I only put myself into social situations if I absolutely have to in order to avoid being the odd-one-out amongst my coworkers.

Honestly in many ways it feels like I'm just becoming one of those bitter people whose lives peaked in senior school.


better than never peaking socially lol

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Fractalnavel
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 182
Founded: Oct 04, 2005
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fractalnavel » Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:09 pm

A problem in recognizing opportunity may be a contributing factor. Looking back at various interactions through your own memories or perhaps with the assistance of a friend may uncover that reality was somewhat different than what was perceived at the time. And then there's the possibility of people in your life who insist on communicating or reinforcing negative messages. One way to test that is asking a hypothetical to which you know an answer, and see what they say. I've thought people were 'friendly' at times when they proved out to definitely not be that at all.

Looking at this phenomena as a symptom can be a useful angle. Internalized negative messaging whatever the source needs to be recognized and countered. There are simple and effective behavior mod techniques that anyone can do for themselves. In the end it comes down to willingness, and why that may or may not be.

Not saying this is necessarily easy to do, especially getting started. And there are certainly circumstances that need other measures to deal with. But having a robust toolbox for positive change helps.

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Stellar Colonies
Senator
 
Posts: 3917
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:44 pm

Fahran wrote:...

I guess that brings up another question. How often do y'all put yourselves into social situations?

...

I sometimes go through this weird little cycle of:

Know I'm not interested
V
Wonder if I'm making a mistake by staying out of it which I'll regret later
V
Wonder if I should try to
V
Remember the reasons for why I'm not interested and also that pushing myself into trying would be a terrible experience for everyone involved
V
Know I'm not interested
V
Wonder if I'm making a mistake by staying out of it which I'll regret later

The period of this loop tends to vary, and I've never gone beyond this step.

Fahran wrote:...

And, follow-up, how many people have you asked out in the past month? And in the past year?

I've heard people commenting on my physical appearance (once from some college students when I was a high school freshman, which was a little uncomfortable) and someone once spread a rumor that I slept with her, but I've never explicitly had someone ask me out, unless it flew right over my head.
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Ayytaly
Minister
 
Posts: 2267
Founded: Feb 08, 2019
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Ayytaly » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:29 am

Ors Might wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:Incels aren't victims.

I would argue they're victims of radicalization, echo chambers, and the toxicity of how much importance culture places on relationships and sex.


Well now, someone nails it without demonizing them.

Techocracy101010 wrote:Morals like religion really gets argued over in a pointless manner because everyone thinks they are right with no real evidence. The only absolute moral thing i can say is do not inflict un needed suffering upon others but even that is subjective. As for the moral decay of the west, we genocided millions we killed enslaved and raped like every other civilization. We let the poor starve and die in the streets , our history is built on blood and suffering as that is human. I will not deem present year any less moral than when it was legal to lynch black children from trees or groups would hunt minorities for fun. Nor will i say we are less moral than when our society chose to let the old the sick and frail die alone in the back alley slums of our cities. Nor can i say the past was better . Rape rates were very high for most of our history was that moral? Was the higher homicide rates during 1700-19990 more moral? What is this morality? A simple sanitized holywood myth of the past.


You want a past that never existed


It existed before 1492.
Last edited by Ayytaly on Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Techocracy101010
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Posts: 245
Founded: May 04, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Techocracy101010 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:22 am

Ayytaly wrote:
Ors Might wrote:I would argue they're victims of radicalization, echo chambers, and the toxicity of how much importance culture places on relationships and sex.


Well now, someone nails it without demonizing them.

Techocracy101010 wrote:Morals like religion really gets argued over in a pointless manner because everyone thinks they are right with no real evidence. The only absolute moral thing i can say is do not inflict un needed suffering upon others but even that is subjective. As for the moral decay of the west, we genocided millions we killed enslaved and raped like every other civilization. We let the poor starve and die in the streets , our history is built on blood and suffering as that is human. I will not deem present year any less moral than when it was legal to lynch black children from trees or groups would hunt minorities for fun. Nor will i say we are less moral than when our society chose to let the old the sick and frail die alone in the back alley slums of our cities. Nor can i say the past was better . Rape rates were very high for most of our history was that moral? Was the higher homicide rates during 1700-19990 more moral? What is this morality? A simple sanitized holywood myth of the past.


You want a past that never existed


It existed before 1492.


Can you expand on that i am interested in what you are trying to say or imply here.

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El Lazaro
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1409
Founded: Oct 19, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby El Lazaro » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:59 am

Techocracy101010 wrote:
Ayytaly wrote:
Well now, someone nails it without demonizing them.



It existed before 1492.


Can you expand on that i am interested in what you are trying to say or imply here.

I think he’s conflating the nebulous concept of the West with post-Columbus America.

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Alcala-Cordel
Minister
 
Posts: 3440
Founded: Dec 16, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Ayytaly wrote:
Ors Might wrote:I would argue they're victims of radicalization, echo chambers, and the toxicity of how much importance culture places on relationships and sex.


Well now, someone nails it without demonizing them.

Lots of people who have said and done terrible things were radicalized by echo chambers, including mass shooters. It really isn't unfair to view incels negatively for their misogynistic beliefs.
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Techocracy101010
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Posts: 245
Founded: May 04, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Techocracy101010 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:31 pm

El Lazaro wrote:
Techocracy101010 wrote:
Can you expand on that i am interested in what you are trying to say or imply here.

I think he’s conflating the nebulous concept of the West with post-Columbus America.



Folks were still down right crazy before than . I mean there was no time where everything was moral and just

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