The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

[Australian rePublic]

They literary said that they want to outlaw an ideology. How is that not oppression? Realising that they can't do something despite really, really wanting to doesn't make it any less oppressive

Outlawing an ideology is not oppressing people.
Is outlawing nazism oppression?

A NAZI would think it is. "Someone has a different opinion to me, we should outlaw that opinion" doesn't do much to help your case. And unless that ideology is downright dangerous (such as NAZIism), then yes, it is oppression. Was it not oppression for the NAZIs to outlaw communism? Outlawing NAZIism is not oppression, outlawing general run of the mill right-wing ideology is oppression. Also, are equating your average, run-of-the-mill right winger to NAZIs? Because doing so completely contradicts everything else you've said

[Saiwania]

*shrugs* It balances out if the NSDAP banned all of political parties when they were in control and oppressed everyone not on their side within Germany at the time. I tend to believe that banning politics is futile in actually purging what is being suppressed. It just creates shadow societies where they meet in secret and gaslight/lie/change their name/location if the state gives them any real difficulties. Ideas and their power/influence/popularity is what usually wins out.

[Necroghastia]

Outlawing an ideology is not oppressing people.
Is outlawing nazism oppression?

A NAZI would think it is. "Someone has a different opinion to me, we should outlaw that opinion" doesn't do much to help your case. And unless that ideology is downright dangerous (such as NAZIism), then yes, it is oppression. Was it not oppression for the NAZIs to outlaw communism? Outlawing NAZIism is not oppression, outlawing general run of the mill right-wing ideology is oppression. Also, are equating your average, run-of-the-mill right winger to NAZIs? Because doing so completely contradicts everything else you've said

sai is quite literally and sincerely a neo-nazi

[Celritannia]

Outlawing an ideology is not oppressing people.
Is outlawing nazism oppression?

A NAZI would think it is. "Someone has a different opinion to me, we should outlaw that opinion" doesn't do much to help your case. And unless that ideology is downright dangerous (such as NAZIism), then yes, it is oppression. Was it not oppression for the NAZIs to outlaw communism? Outlawing NAZIism is not oppression, outlawing general run of the mill right-wing ideology is oppression. Also, are equating your average, run-of-the-mill right winger to NAZIs? Because doing so completely contradicts everything else you've said

I'm not asking a Nazi, I am asking you. Unless you are a nazi?
Is outlawing nazisim ( an ideology that spread fear, oppression, and slaughtered countless millions) oppression?

I want you to really think about this, and while you do, I want you to think about far-right ideologies as a whole. Should we allow them to oppress the LGBTQ+ Community? Should we allow them to oppress other ethnic groups? Should we allow them to oppress Women? Should we allow them to oppress anyone they feel do not adhere to their principles?
Because that is what the Nazis did.

[Apocalyptic Haven]

Treating LGBT people as if they deserve to be scorned, abused, and never.knowing a life where discriminating against them wasn't justified until recently being a major example.

If you believe in your heart of hearts that biological men can't be women and biological women can't be men, there is no reason to compromise on that or validate what you consider to be invalid.

It is unfortunate, but there will be zero sum situations where only one side can win out. I'm never truly going to consider a trans woman and a woman to be one and the same or vice versa, just because inclusivity crap is popular these days.

Dude, do you even know any transgender people? Because I do and I’m convinced that they are not truly the gender assigned to them at birth. One of them is my sister in law.

[Celritannia]

*shrugs* It balances out if the NSDAP banned all of political parties when they were in control and oppressed everyone not on their side within Germany at the time. I tend to believe that banning politics is futile in actually purging what is being suppressed. It just creates shadow societies where they meet in secret and gaslight/lie/change their name/location if the state gives them any real difficulties. Ideas and their power/influence/popularity is what usually wins out.

That's because your views are a danger to society.

[Australian rePublic]

A NAZI would think it is. "Someone has a different opinion to me, we should outlaw that opinion" doesn't do much to help your case. And unless that ideology is downright dangerous (such as NAZIism), then yes, it is oppression. Was it not oppression for the NAZIs to outlaw communism? Outlawing NAZIism is not oppression, outlawing general run of the mill right-wing ideology is oppression. Also, are equating your average, run-of-the-mill right winger to NAZIs? Because doing so completely contradicts everything else you've said

I'm not asking a Nazi, I am asking you. Unless you are a nazi?
Is outlawing nazisim ( an ideology that spread fear, oppression, and slaughtered countless millions) oppression?

I want you to really think about this, and while you do, I want you to think about far-right ideologies as a whole. Should we allow them to oppress the LGBTQ+ Community? Should we allow them to oppress other ethnic groups? Should we allow them to oppress Women? Should we allow them to oppress anyone they feel do not adhere to their principles?
Because that is what the Nazis did.

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. If your end goal is hatred and division, then fuck your ideology. However, equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

[Celritannia]

I'm not asking a Nazi, I am asking you. Unless you are a nazi?
Is outlawing nazisim ( an ideology that spread fear, oppression, and slaughtered countless millions) oppression?

I want you to really think about this, and while you do, I want you to think about far-right ideologies as a whole. Should we allow them to oppress the LGBTQ+ Community? Should we allow them to oppress other ethnic groups? Should we allow them to oppress Women? Should we allow them to oppress anyone they feel do not adhere to their principles?
Because that is what the Nazis did.

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. However, you equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

You have made no point except saying that right-wingers are being oppressed when they clearly are not.
Please tell me where far-right individuals believe in equality for all.

[Necroghastia]

I'm not asking a Nazi, I am asking you. Unless you are a nazi?
Is outlawing nazisim ( an ideology that spread fear, oppression, and slaughtered countless millions) oppression?

I want you to really think about this, and while you do, I want you to think about far-right ideologies as a whole. Should we allow them to oppress the LGBTQ+ Community? Should we allow them to oppress other ethnic groups? Should we allow them to oppress Women? Should we allow them to oppress anyone they feel do not adhere to their principles?
Because that is what the Nazis did.

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. However, you equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

...you do realize this whole argument of yours sparked from a comment made in response to an actual nazi, right?

[Australian rePublic]

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. However, you equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

You have made no point except saying that right-wingers are being oppressed when they clearly are not.
Please tell me where far-right individuals believe in equality for all.

Ha? I was replying to Mountains and Volcanoes saying that ALL right-winged ideology should be silenced, M&V stated that right-wingers should be oppressed, and that's what I was replying to

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. However, you equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

...you do realize this whole argument of yours sparked from a comment made in response to an actual nazi, right?

No, I was not supporting Andrew Tate. I even called him a fruit loop. I was trying to explain how people are drawn to his ideology

[Celritannia]

You have made no point except saying that right-wingers are being oppressed when they clearly are not.
Please tell me where far-right individuals believe in equality for all.

Ha? I was replying to Mountains and Volcanoes saying that ALL right-winged ideology should be silenced

And why did M&V say that? Because a literal Nazi does not believe in the basic understanding and psychological evidence that trans people are the gender they say they are, because it does not line up with Sai's fascist ideology.
Sai wants to keep people oppressed by denying them their right to be the gender they are.

Not once did M&V say he wanted people oppressed.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I'm not asking a Nazi, I am asking you. Unless you are a nazi?
Is outlawing nazisim ( an ideology that spread fear, oppression, and slaughtered countless millions) oppression?

I want you to really think about this, and while you do, I want you to think about far-right ideologies as a whole. Should we allow them to oppress the LGBTQ+ Community? Should we allow them to oppress other ethnic groups? Should we allow them to oppress Women? Should we allow them to oppress anyone they feel do not adhere to their principles?
Because that is what the Nazis did.

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. If your end goal is hatred and division, then fuck your ideology. However, equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

There are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general right wing ideas and Nazism.

[Saiwania]

Dude, do you even know any transgender people? Because I do and I’m convinced that they are not truly the gender assigned to them at birth. One of them is my sister in law.

I don't and I hope not to in real life (more okay if its exclusively online chat), same is true for dating or (heaven forbid) sleeping with any.

[Necroghastia]

You have made no point except saying that right-wingers are being oppressed when they clearly are not.
Please tell me where far-right individuals believe in equality for all.

Ha? I was replying to Mountains and Volcanoes saying that ALL right-winged ideology should be silenced, M&V stated that right-wingers should be oppressed, and that's what I was replying to

No, you were replying to M 'n' V saying that a post written by a nazi left enough of a bad taste in their mouth that it made them wish conservatism was banned.

I for one can understand hyperbole said in disgust.

[Celritannia]

Dude, do you even know any transgender people? Because I do and I’m convinced that they are not truly the gender assigned to them at birth. One of them is my sister in law.

I don't and I hope not to in real life (more okay if its exclusively online chat), same is true for dating or (heaven forbid) sleeping with any.

This is just sickening.

[Necroghastia]

Dude, do you even know any transgender people? Because I do and I’m convinced that they are not truly the gender assigned to them at birth. One of them is my sister in law.

I don't and I hope not to in real life (more okay if its exclusively online chat), same is true for dating or (heaven forbid) sleeping with any.

OOGA BOOGA

[Australian rePublic]

Ha? I was replying to Mountains and Volcanoes saying that ALL right-winged ideology should be silenced

And why did M&V say that? Because a literal Nazi does not believe in the basic understanding and psychological evidence that trans people are the gender they say they are because it does not line up with Sai's fascist ideologies.
Sai wants to keep people oppressed by denying them their right to be the gender they are.

M&V never said anything about Sai or NAZIs. M&V said that with regards to ALL right wingers. Point still stands. If M&V is incapable of distinguishing between your average run of the mill right winger and a NAZI, then it proves my point. If M&V can't distinguish between an average, run-of-the-mill right winger and a NAZI, why would you expect an average run of the mill right winger to distinguish between an average run-of-the-mill left winger and an extremist? Especially considering that the average run-of-the-mill left winger of NSG is clutching at straws to support M&V's point, rather than condemn it, or at least admit that it was worded poorly.

[Celritannia]

And why did M&V say that? Because a literal Nazi does not believe in the basic understanding and psychological evidence that trans people are the gender they say they are because it does not line up with Sai's fascist ideologies.
Sai wants to keep people oppressed by denying them their right to be the gender they are.

M&V never said anything about Sai or NAZIs. M&V said that with regards to ALL right wingers. Point still stands. If M&V is incapable of distinguishing between your average run of the mill right winger and a NAZI, then it proves my point. If M&V can't distinguish between an average, run-of-the-mill right winger and a NAZI, why would you expect an average run of the mill right winger to distinguish between an average run-of-the-mill left winger and an extremist? Especially considering that the average run-of-the-mill left winger of NSG is clutching at straws to support M&V's point, rather than condemn it, or at least admit that it was worded poorly.

M&V was responding to a comment Sai made, with Sai being a self-proclaimed Nazi.
You are literally defending a Nazi right now.

[Saiwania]

That's because your views are a danger to society.

Why defend a society if you see it as no good? I want it replaced with something different, but how or with what is the big question? People are upset at the Taliban taking over Afghanistan for example, but they're arguably an improvement over previous regime and has legitimacy in the context of that country's people and principles.

[Australian rePublic]

M&V never said anything about Sai or NAZIs. M&V said that with regards to ALL right wingers. Point still stands. If M&V is incapable of distinguishing between your average run of the mill right winger and a NAZI, then it proves my point. If M&V can't distinguish between an average, run-of-the-mill right winger and a NAZI, why would you expect an average run of the mill right winger to distinguish between an average run-of-the-mill left winger and an extremist? Especially considering that the average run-of-the-mill left winger of NSG is clutching at straws to support M&V's point, rather than condemn it, or at least admit that it was worded poorly.

M&V was responding to a comment Sai made, with Sai being a self-proclaimed Nazi.
You are defending a Nazi right now.

No I am not. I am saying that M&V should not equate all right-wingers with NAZIs. And how was I supposed to that Sai was a NAZI, especially in this context? Context matters. M&V probably worded it poorly, but context matters. If M&V worded it poorly, that's fine, but come out and admit that. Don't assume people can infer context. M&V said that all right winger should be oppressed. They said nothing about Sai specifically, nor anything about far right wingers. They implied that they were referring to all right wingers. Point still stands

[Celritannia]

That's because your views are a danger to society.

Why defend a society if you see it as no good? I want it replaced with something different, but how or with what is the big question? People are upset at the Taliban taking over Afghanistan for example, but they're arguably an improvement over previous regime and has legitimacy in the context of that country's people and principles.

Yes, because I also want to see LGBTQ+ people executed, women not being able to have rights, religion invading daily life, abandonment of science and research, banning culture, history, art, etc.

[Australian rePublic]

Why defend a society if you see it as no good? I want it replaced with something different, but how or with what is the big question? People are upset at the Taliban taking over Afghanistan for example, but they're arguably an improvement over previous regime and has legitimacy in the context of that country's people and principles.

Yes, because I also want to see LGBTQ+ people executed, women not being able to have rights, religion invading daily life, abandonment of science and research, banning culture, history, art, etc.

And what's that gotta do with your average, run-of-the-mill right winger? You do realise that many right-wingers are themselves transgender, right?

[Celritannia]

M&V was responding to a comment Sai made, with Sai being a self-proclaimed Nazi.
You are defending a Nazi right now.

No I am not. I am saying that M&V should not equate all right-wingers with NAZIs. And how was I supposed to that Sai was a NAZI, especially in this context? Context matters. M&V probably worded it poorly, but context matters. If M&V worded it poorly, that's fine, but come out and admit that. Don't assume people can infer context. M&V said that all right winger should be oppressed. They said nothing about Sai specifically, nor anything about far right wingers. They implied that they were referring to all right wingers. Point still stands

If you believe in your heart of hearts that biological men can't be women and biological women can't be men, there is no reason to compromise on that or validate what you consider to be invalid.

It is unfortunate, but there will be zero sum situations where only one side can win out. I'm never truly going to consider a trans woman and a woman to be one and the same or vice versa, just because inclusivity crap is popular these days.

This mindset, makes me want to outlaw conservatism as a whole! But I know, that will never happen due to Neoliberal realism! (Plus it’s insidious use of tokenism)

You are defending sai, a nazi, whos view would be to deny transpeople their rights to identify as their stated gender.

I think it is pretty clear Sai has always been a Nazi.

Again, point to me where M&V said all rightwingers should be oppressed.

[Celritannia]

Yes, because I also want to see LGBTQ+ people executed, women not being able to have rights, religion invading daily life, abandonment of science and research, banning culture, history, art, etc.

And what's that gotta do with your average, run-of-the-mill right winger? You do realise that many right-wingers are themselves transgender, right?

Ah, yes, let's keep defending oppression.

[Alcala-Cordel]

That's because your views are a danger to society.

Why defend a society if you see it as no good? I want it replaced with something different, but how or with what is the big question? People are upset at the Taliban taking over Afghanistan for example, but they're arguably an improvement over previous regime and has legitimacy in the context of that country's people and principles.

Because your ideal society is almost everything that sucks about the status quo on steroids. The Taliban actively work to destroy the lives of every woman in the country, and it's telling that you compare your own ideas to theirs.