The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

[Celritannia]

Notably, even approaching a woman in-person with open romantic interest is a signifier of confidence. As long as you're not gross or an ass about it, I can't really envision it getting a very negative reaction from a normal person. Mind you, that's not to say you'll get a number or date every time, but you're not going to be accused of being creepy or a rapist like some incels seem to think.

No, he ought not to approach. He could be labeled creepy or accused of sexual harassment.

This depends on how you approach someone.

[Fahran]

Azar Gat makes a biological argument as to why men having multiple women seems to be a more common model than the other way around which I am quite partial to. I think it makes sense.

Namely, that pregnancy is really expensive in both time and energy.

---

Is violence really a negative?

Violence for the sake of violence to harm, absolutely.

Violence for self-defence or exercise/releasing tension in an unharmful way, no.

One can be bold and reckless without the need for violence.

I don't think that particular study dug into violence as much. It would be an interesting subject for a follow-up study.

[Fahran]

This depends on how you approach someone.

"Hey, baby. Are you Jewish? Cause don't Jewish we could ride horses together?"

Yes, I'm in a committed relationship. No, I can't explain how or why he puts up with me.

[Celritannia]

Violence for the sake of violence to harm, absolutely.

Violence for self-defence or exercise/releasing tension in an unharmful way, no.

One can be bold and reckless without the need for violence.

I don't think that particular study dug into violence as much. It would be an interesting subject for a follow-up study.

True, I was just mentioning it in a general way.

[Celritannia]

This depends on how you approach someone.

"Hey, baby. Are you Jewish? Cause don't Jewish we could ride horses together?"

Yes, I'm in a committed relationship. No, I can't explain how or why he puts up with me.

[Celritannia]

What do people think of men no longer helping women/children out in public anymore? A man in explaining why he wouldn't help a lost child at a grocery store, said that it is because he'd risk being arrested/accused of kidnapping and he didn't want to get involved. The best course of action to him was to let the store security know and depart the scene in leaving it at that.

Getting a store assistant or store security to help the child find their parent is the correct response though since they have access to CCTV cameras and can find out what the parent looks like.
This is still helping.

I mean, it's okay to ask people if they need help with something they are struggling with, it doesn't matter who it is. It's just being polite.
If there is someone behind me, I will hold the door open regardless. If someone is existing a shop and has too many bags and I am near by, I'll open the door. Just be polite.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Violence for the sake of violence to harm, absolutely.

Violence for self-defence or exercise/releasing tension in an unharmful way, no.

Yeah, that's what I said - the capacity for violence coupled with a philosophy of when it is appropriate to use it.

---

There are still some other men out there who have a disdain for modernity that they think "not my problem" if a woman wants help and isn't getting it from the men because she can be independent and strong now.

It baffles me why people think independence means not having rights in or responsibilities to society. Independence is only possible in the context of a society that allows its constituent individuals to be independent.

---

This depends on how you approach someone.

It also depends on people's expectations.

I attended secondary school in a cultural environment that was very open to amicable physicality. You reassure people by tapping their shoulders. When you meet a friend that you haven't seen in a while, you hug them. None of this is sexual, or even romantic. It's just the thing to do to express your friendship and good regards.

Then I graduated and moved to a cultural environment where reassuring my female colleagues by tapping their shoulders is liable to get me written up to HR for harassment.

I adjusted with no difficulties, but I can imagine that for some people it might be more difficult. Now, this is just my speculation and I have no evidence to support any of it, but I wonder if some people got burned on culture shocks like this and came to a conclusion of 'if an amicable gesture gets me written up, how much worse will it be if I actually make a romantic move on someone?'

[Celritannia]

This depends on how you approach someone.

It also depends on people's expectations.

I attended secondary school in a cultural environment that was very open to amicable physicality. You reassure people by tapping their shoulders. When you meet a friend that you haven't seen in a while, you hug them. None of this is sexual, or even romantic. It's just the thing to do to express your friendship and good regards.

Then I graduated and moved to a cultural environment where reassuring my female colleagues by tapping their shoulders is liable to get me written up to HR for harassment.

I adjusted with no difficulties, but I can imagine that for some people it might be more difficult.

I mean, this seems pretty simple. You went from an enclosed environment to an open environment.
Boundaries are essential, and asking if people would like a reassuring hug or hand on the shoulder should be the norm. Not everyone likes being touched by someone they don't know. I don't.

But touching is different than approaching someone and talking to them. Talking also allows you to find out what people are comfortable with in terms of physical boundaries.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

I don't think that particular study dug into violence as much. It would be an interesting subject for a follow-up study.

I think it makes sense, to be honest, why the capacity for violence is attractive and why traditionalist notions of manliness often revolve around violence.

It has traditionally been the man's role to protect the family and at its most basic level that means physical security.

Not as relevant today in the era of dedicated police and the state's monopoly on legitimate force, but our brains evolved in the savannah and our prosperous industrial civilisation hasn't been around for all that long.

A lot of our traditional social values and ingrained biological instincts really no longer make sense in our modern societies. And while we can change our values, our instincts remain outside our powers of revision... for now.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64285341
Oh hey look they took his luxury goods and raided his second villa

Why did this fuck need a second villa in the middle of ppl living in literal shacks?

[Saiwania]

Why did this fuck need a second villa in the middle of ppl living in literal shacks?

Some of the rich, have a psychological urge or need to flaunt or lord their status/wealth over people who rank beneath them in terms of net worth.

[Celritannia]

Why did this fuck need a second villa in the middle of ppl living in literal shacks?

Some of the rich, have a psychological urge or need to flaunt or lord their status/wealth over people who rank beneath them in terms of net worth.

The most sensible thing you've said in this thread thus far

[The Grand World Order]

Why did this fuck need a second villa in the middle of ppl living in literal shacks?

There's a very noticeable trend of "highly successful" "manosphere" influencers who happen to live in East Asia or Eastern Europe. I can't possibly imagine that it has anything to do with much lower costs of living and the tendency of local women to be attracted to someone who isn't the same as everyone else around them, and that these jokers can't function in their home societies without getting laughed out of public.

[Ostroeuropa]

Why did this fuck need a second villa in the middle of ppl living in literal shacks?

There's a very noticeable trend of "highly successful" "manosphere" influencers who happen to live in East Asia or Eastern Europe. I can't possibly imagine that it has anything to do with much lower costs of living and the tendency of local women to be attracted to someone who isn't the same as everyone else around them, and that these jokers can't function in their home societies without getting laughed out of public.

BlackPigeonSpeaks lives in Japan, a high cost of living area where foreigners are let's say, not viewed as positively. I think your explanation struggles because of that and other examples. I genuinely think a lot of these people just hate the west and for sympathetic reasons in many cases.

[Saiwania]

.. and that these jokers can't function in their home societies without getting laughed out of public.

Their home societies aren't worth a damn more often than not. It is filled with LGBTQ+ nonsense and women who have a princess mentality. Of course the bar is going to be too high to meet unless they move elsewhere. Generally speaking, only a "Chad" who has high game or a big earner is truly competitive where women are out earning more money than used to be the case. They usually still want the man they're with to be at or above their income level at minimum.

[Neutraligon]

This depends on how you approach someone.

"Hey, baby. Are you Jewish? Cause don't Jewish we could ride horses together?"

Yes, I'm in a committed relationship. No, I can't explain how or why he puts up with me.

Oh that is so baaaad. I like it.

[Restored Sumeru]

"Hey, baby. Are you Jewish? Cause don't Jewish we could ride horses together?"

Yes, I'm in a committed relationship. No, I can't explain how or why he puts up with me.

Oh that is so baaaad. I like it.

I'm Jewish and that made me laugh until I nearly choked XD

That was so bad it became good.

(I'm good, I didn't choke)

[Celritannia]

Their home societies aren't worth a damn more often than not. It is filled with LGBTQ+ nonsense and women who have a princess mentality. Of course the bar is going to be too high to meet unless they move elsewhere. Generally speaking, only a "Chad" who has high game or a big earner is truly competitive where women are out earning more money than used to be the case. They usually still want the man they're with to be at or above their income level at minimum.

What evidence do you have?

[Apocalyptic Haven]

Their home societies aren't worth a damn more often than not. It is filled with LGBTQ+ nonsense and women who have a princess mentality. Of course the bar is going to be too high to meet unless they move elsewhere. Generally speaking, only a "Chad" who has high game or a big earner is truly competitive where women are out earning more money than used to be the case. They usually still want the man they're with to be at or above their income level at minimum.

Speaking as a bisexual man, no, LGBTQ rights aren't "nonsense." Far from it. Harvey Milk wasn't murdered over "nonsense." Nor was Matthew Shepherd. Stonewall didn't happen over "nonsense." Our rights are the same as everyone else's. We're not asking for special perks or anything like that. Just basic equality.

As for women, yes, plenty have a "princess" mentality. Blame Disney if you like. My wife has no such mentality, nor does her sister. It's by no means universal among women, even if ubiquitous.

[Restored Sumeru]

Their home societies aren't worth a damn more often than not. It is filled with LGBTQ+ nonsense and women who have a princess mentality. Of course the bar is going to be too high to meet unless they move elsewhere. Generally speaking, only a "Chad" who has high game or a big earner is truly competitive where women are out earning more money than used to be the case. They usually still want the man they're with to be at or above their income level at minimum.

Speaking as a bisexual man, no, LGBTQ rights aren't "nonsense." Far from it. Harvey Milk wasn't murdered over "nonsense." Nor was Matthew Shepherd. Stonewall didn't happen over "nonsense." Our rights are the same as everyone else's. We're not asking for special perks or anything like that. Just basic equality.

As for women, yes, plenty have a "princess" mentality. Blame Disney if you like. My wife has no such mentality, nor does her sister. It's by no means universal among women, even if ubiquitous.

I am 100% in favor of equal rights for all minorities, be they racial, religious, or sexual. I'm Jewish, I am a religious minority anywhere outside of Israel and a few isolated communities. All I want is to live my own life as I see fit and not be attacked for it.

Yeah. Princess Mentality sucks, there is no way around it. There is a similar entitlement amongst some men too. Thinking they should get any girl. It's not all women, it's not all men. Just entitled fools.

While I fully disagree with Sai saying LGBTQ are to blame, there is a definite problem with a subset of them. Some trans people have a sense of entitlement similar to incels and think anyone rejecting them is "transphobia." No one is entitled to anyone else's body. Not me, not you, not anyone. When mainstream dating apps on the "straight" settings are flooded with aggressive "trancels" (trans+incels) thinking you have to date them "or else," that's a big problem.

And the whole "Hypergamy/Chad" pseudoscience doesn't work in reality. Social media is to blame. That whole celebrity or influencer life. It makes us think that's how reality works. Delete Instagram and Tiktok and then a large part of reality improves.

[Amerysia]

Speaking as a bisexual man, no, LGBTQ rights aren't "nonsense." Far from it. Harvey Milk wasn't murdered over "nonsense." Nor was Matthew Shepherd. Stonewall didn't happen over "nonsense." Our rights are the same as everyone else's. We're not asking for special perks or anything like that. Just basic equality.

As for women, yes, plenty have a "princess" mentality. Blame Disney if you like. My wife has no such mentality, nor does her sister. It's by no means universal among women, even if ubiquitous.

I am 100% in favor of equal rights for all minorities, be they racial, religious, or sexual. I'm Jewish, I am a religious minority anywhere outside of Israel and a few isolated communities. All I want is to live my own life as I see fit and not be attacked for it.

Yeah. Princess Mentality sucks, there is no way around it. There is a similar entitlement amongst some men too. Thinking they should get any girl. It's not all women, it's not all men. Just entitled fools.

While I fully disagree with Sai saying LGBTQ are to blame, there is a definite problem with a subset of them. Some trans people have a sense of entitlement similar to incels and think anyone rejecting them is "transphobia." No one is entitled to anyone else's body. Not me, not you, not anyone. When mainstream dating apps on the "straight" settings are flooded with aggressive "trancels" (trans+incels) thinking you have to date them "or else," that's a big problem.

And the whole "Hypergamy/Chad" pseudoscience doesn't work in reality. Social media is to blame. That whole celebrity or influencer life. It makes us think that's how reality works. Delete Instagram and Tiktok and then a large part of reality improves.

The part that I put in bold is the essence of the issue. Does it suck if you can't get laid? Yes, but you can find ways of getting laid that aren't rapey or else be satisfied with your right or left hand. Which goes for people of all sexes and genders. Male, female, cis, trans, or non-binary. And all orientations, I might add. Are there toxic trends, such as FDS, foodie dates, paternity fraud, date rape, marital rape, etc.? Yes. Those should be corrected without painting any group with a broad brush or profiling them. Without silly ideas such as curfews, forced monogamy, etc. There are alternatives, several of them. One doesn't have to be an incel, femcel, or whatever. Reduce the influence of pop culture and social media without necessarily going off the grid as such. Embrace a personal, spiritual path that brings serenity or enlightenment. That kind of thing.

No one is owed someone else's money or friendship, either, I might add. It's not just complaints about the "friend zone" that are toxic. Complaints about the end of traditional dating are stupid, too. Cultural trends happen for a reason, and perhaps old-school dating has passed its sell-by date. In the end, it helps to remember this essential fact: you can't choose your feelings/emotions, not even your thoughts. You can only choose your actions. And yes, Virginia, men are allowed to have preferences, too.

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

His detention has been extended by a Romanian court
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64347211

Influencer Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan are to stay in custody until 27 February after a Romanian court extended their police detention.

The pair are being investigated over allegations of sexual assault and exploitation and a judge has ruled they will be kept in prison for a further 30 days while police build their case.

The reasons for this extension will be given in a written statement later.

[Shamhnan Insir]

His detention has been extended by a Romanian court
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64347211

Influencer Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan are to stay in custody until 27 February after a Romanian court extended their police detention.

The pair are being investigated over allegations of sexual assault and exploitation and a judge has ruled they will be kept in prison for a further 30 days while police build their case.

The reasons for this extension will be given in a written statement later.

Good.
Less whining of an insecure, predatory little man who has cornered the market of insecure men that spend their days online whining about their lives.

[Alcala-Cordel]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64285341
Oh hey look they took his luxury goods and raided his second villa

Why did this fuck need a second villa in the middle of ppl living in literal shacks?

Andrew Tate has a bodyguard? That's typical beta behavior, relying on another man to keep him safe. A true alpha male takes on all threats alone, never revealing any fear to the world.

[Xmara]

For starters, I wouldn’t let a kid under 13 anywhere near social media. Staying aware of online trends and talking to your kids about them could help. Talk to your kids about online safety. And I hate to be that person, but if need be, keep tabs on who your kids are talking to online.

As for adults, I’m not really sure what could be done. You can’t restrict an adult’s online activity the way you can a child’s. Perhaps colleges could have programs addressing this specific form of hate? Idk.