The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

[Australian rePublic]

No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. If your end goal is hatred and division, then fuck your ideology. However, equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

There are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general right wing ideas and Nazism.

Yes, and the are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general left winged ideas and communism. Does that make all left-wingers communists? There are some legitimate parallels to draw between EXTREMIST Islam and NAZIism. Does that make all Muslims NAZIs? There are parallels to be drawn between Christianity and socialism. Does that make all Christians socialist? Terrible point it terrible. What about Jewish right wingers? Are Jewish people NAZIs? What about black right wingers? Are they NAZIs?

[Alcala-Cordel]

There are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general right wing ideas and Nazism.

Yes, and the are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general left winged ideas and communism. Does that make all left-wingers communists?

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

There are some legitimate parallels to draw between EXTREMIST Islam and NAZIism. Does that make all Muslims NAZIs? There are parallels to be drawn between Christianity and socialism. Does that make all Christians socialist? Terrible point it terrible.

That's much more of a stretch, because both the bible and the quran are very contradictory and the people who believe them have all sorts of ideas. Christianity and Islam are very comparable to each other, though.

[The Second Order of Life]

So Aydian Dowling is a woman, and Cambell Kenneford is a man?

Your eyes can deceive you, which is what makes Trans so dangerous in my mind. If it becomes known that they aren't as they appear, I'll adjust accordingly. In my judgement, Aydian is a woman who has become unattractive to straight cisgender men in general. But perhaps she only cares about being able to "pass" as a man. On that metric, mission is accomplished. Its very distressing and disappointing from my perspective, but its their life.

Woah woah woah woah woah. Are we just gonna gloss over this?
Like, blatant misgendering and complete denial of transgerism as well as calling trans people "dangerous"? "Distressing and disappointing"? When did this thread suddenly jump into transphobia?

[Celritannia]

Your eyes can deceive you, which is what makes Trans so dangerous in my mind. If it becomes known that they aren't as they appear, I'll adjust accordingly. In my judgement, Aydian is a woman who has become unattractive to straight cisgender men in general. But perhaps she only cares about being able to "pass" as a man. On that metric, mission is accomplished. Its very distressing and disappointing from my perspective, but its their life.

Woah woah woah woah woah. Are we just gonna gloss over this?
Like, blatant misgendering and complete denial of transgerism as well as calling trans people "dangerous"? "Distressing and disappointing"? When did this thread suddenly jump into transphobia?

This is Sai, he does this regularly.

[The Second Order of Life]

This is Sai, he does this regularly.

Good to know, I guess. Or bad to know, one more blatant transphobe to the list. It's impressively rare to find ones like that, they're generally more well-hidden, but it's still just as distressing and disappointing to find one nonetheless.

[Saiwania]

This is just sickening.

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

[Celritannia]

This is just sickening.

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

No one is stopping you from doing that, but you have no right to deny the fact that someone is the gender they say they are.
Also, this is not correct, the concept of transgender individuals/3+ genders has been a part of human society since the beginning of civilisation.

[The Second Order of Life]

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

No one's stopping you from having a genital preference, no need for the side of transphobia. And, not impressively, you seem to conflate gender and sex as one and the same, which is just painfully untrue.

[Apocalyptic Haven]

This is just sickening.

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.

[The Second Order of Life]

Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.

I'm gonna write this down for future usage, thank you for your wisdom, kind stranger.

[Australian rePublic]

Yes, and the are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general left winged ideas and communism. Does that make all left-wingers communists?

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

Communism is good? Tell that to the people in Mainland China, or East Germany, or North Korea, or North Vietnam, or the former USSR. Communism was really, really good in those societies. Such a good system

There are some legitimate parallels to draw between EXTREMIST Islam and NAZIism. Does that make all Muslims NAZIs? There are parallels to be drawn between Christianity and socialism. Does that make all Christians socialist? Terrible point it terrible.

That's much more of a stretch, because both the bible and the quran are very contradictory and the people who believe them have all sorts of ideas. Christianity and Islam are very comparable to each other, though.

[/quote]
Not the fucking point

[Fahran]

Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

[Fahran]

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

We should actively suppress and marginalize both Nazis and Communists, and should pursue sharper measures based on whichever poses the greater risk to political stability and the citizenry at any particular point in time. But we're getting a little off-topic here.

[Fahran]

Why defend a society if you see it as no good? I want it replaced with something different, but how or with what is the big question? People are upset at the Taliban taking over Afghanistan for example, but they're arguably an improvement over previous regime and has legitimacy in the context of that country's people and principles.

The Taliban are, by no stretch of logic, an improvement over the Islamic Republic. They're better than the Democratic Republic because that regime was largely maintained by copious amounts of murder that make comparisons to the American adventure in Vietnam appropriate, but the rights of most Afghans have regressed since the Islamic Emirate came to power - as has the economic situation and the standard of living.

[Apocalyptic Haven]

Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.

Only in the sense that neither of them actually existed and there was no literal six day creation by an omnipotent Heavenly Father.

[Fahran]

Only in the sense that neither of them actually existed and there was no literal six day creation by an omnipotent Heavenly Father.

People who dislike religion really shouldn't pretend to be theologians.

Anyway... back to the actual topic...

It keeps getting worse. Apparently, there are now additionanal allegations of Tate attempting to groom underaged girls. His behavior seems to fall a basic pattern used by human traffickers and pimps to lure young women into the sex industry.

[Apocalyptic Haven]

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

We should actively suppress and marginalize both Nazis and Communists, and should pursue sharper measures based on whichever poses the greater risk to political stability and the citizenry at any particular point in time. But we're getting a little off-topic here.

The Communists are misguided fanatics, but they aren’t scum. The Nazis are scum. False equivalence is immoral in my book. But I’ve got your number now. You represent mainstream normalcy, bourgeois, suburban values, morality, perspectives, etc. I don’t. I represent a very New Age social restructuring paradigm that favors a mix of socialist and capitalist policies and categorically rejects existing morality in favor of something more enlightened.

[Forever Indomitable]

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

M8, I just don't understand why you're so passionate about this. Why does everyone have to fit neatly into a static category? Nature doesn't conform to your view of sex. Did you know that female Hyenas are the alphas of their species, have a pseudo penis and have an average of 3 times as much testosterone as the males? Sexuality is not black and white and never has been.
https://africageographic.com/stories/go ... hyena-cub/

[Fahran]

The Communists are misguided fanatics, but they aren’t scum. The Nazis are scum. False equivalence is immoral in my book. But I’ve got your number now.

People aren't scum. They're people. All of them have intrinsic value as people, even when they promote hateful, stupid, or evil things, even when you have to suppress their ideology or marginalize them.

I'm not equating Nazis and Communists. I'm simply pointing out that society, on the whole, has no vested interest in permitting either of those ideologies to amass support or impact the broader political paradigm in a massive way. We can borrow a couple neat ideas from them - amusingly enough lefties won't stop borrowing Schmitt's critique of liberal democracy, but we don't benefit by letting them grow and prosper.

You represent mainstream normalcy, bourgeois, suburban values, morality, perspectives, etc. I don’t.

I'm a conservative. I have quite a few critiques of the Enlightenment - from various perspectives. I wouldn't really describe myself as completely mainstream and I'm definitely not a suburbanite.

I represent a very New Age social restructuring paradigm that favors a mix of socialist and capitalist policies and categorically rejects existing morality in favor of something more enlightened.

Neat? What does this have to do with Andrew Tate though?

This just sounds like social democracy with a more progressive attitude towards social values and with less interest in definitions and boundaries. We probably actually agree on a few policies even. I just don't really see any reason to not marginalize extremists.

[Fahran]

I think we should probably take this to the TGT or FDT at this point. We're getting a little off-topic. I will say this though. Nobody is going to force you to date trans women, Sai, and, given you've expressed dissatisfaction with talking to cis women, I'm not even certain why this is a conversation we're having in an unrelated thread.

[Costa Fierro]

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

You mean European cultures.

[Forever Indomitable]

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

You mean European cultures.

You mean the Middle Eastern religions that colonized, erased and revised actual European cultures?
https://medium.com/exploring-history/ge ... 8645fd50dc

[Alcala-Cordel]

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

Communism is good? Tell that to the people in Mainland China, or East Germany, or North Korea, or North Vietnam, or the former USSR. Communism was really, really good in those societies. Such a good system

I've probably had this argument several hundred times now and it gets more obnoxious every time. Communism kicks ass. Countries that call themselves communist don't, but "communist country" is an oxymoron anyways.

That's much more of a stretch, because both the bible and the quran are very contradictory and the people who believe them have all sorts of ideas. Christianity and Islam are very comparable to each other, though.

Not the fucking point

Not your point, but the only valid point that can really be drawn from what you said. Religion is more abstract than ideology and is interpreted to justify all sorts of contradictory things.

[Fahran]

You mean the Middle Eastern religions that colonized, erased and revised actual European cultures?
https://medium.com/exploring-history/ge ... 8645fd50dc

This article is misleading.

This also isn't a thread about gender identity, nonconformity, and relations in pre-Christian European mythology, a topic that is frequently misunderstood or discussed without sufficient nuance. Again, that conversation is better held in the FDT, TDT, or in its own thread altogether.

[Sedgistan]

This is just sickening.

No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

Underlining is mine. *** 1 week ban for trolling ***