American Politics XIV: The Dawning of the Age of the Pumpkin

[San Lumen]

The electoral college is neither fair nor democratic. You have a different standard when it comes to state elections and im curious to know why.

I doubt you'd think it was a fair or democratic if Beshear lost the election in Kentucky because he did not win a majority of counties or state legislative districts.

I already answered you. Don't spin us in circles because you don't want to admit the truth.

What truth is that? The electoral college is unfair and undemocratic. You like it because it benefits Republicans.

[American Legionaries]

I already answered you. Don't spin us in circles because you don't want to admit the truth.

What truth is that? The electoral college is unfair and undemocratic. You like it because it benefits Republicans.

The electoral college is perfectly fair. It doesn't benefit Republicans, it benefits the party that happens to appeal to the people of lower population states with disproportionately powerful votes. If the Democrats appealed to those people, they could have those votes.

[San Lumen]

What truth is that? The electoral college is unfair and undemocratic. You like it because it benefits Republicans.

The electoral college is perfectly fair. It doesn't benefit Republicans, it benefits the party that happens to appeal to the people of lower population states with disproportionately powerful votes. If the Democrats appealed to those people, they could have those votes.

That is not why the electoral college was created. Stop rewriting history to suit your narrative.

[American Legionaries]

The electoral college is perfectly fair. It doesn't benefit Republicans, it benefits the party that happens to appeal to the people of lower population states with disproportionately powerful votes. If the Democrats appealed to those people, they could have those votes.

That is not why the electoral college was created. Stop rewriting history to suit your narrative.

I didn't mention the reasons behind it's creation at all.

[San Lumen]

That is not why the electoral college was created. Stop rewriting history to suit your narrative.

I didn't mention the reasons behind it's creation at all.

Yet you invented a new reason for its existence when that was not a factor at all when the delegates debated at the Constitutional Convention.

[Tarsonis]

Exactly. The only reason you attest the 2nd sentence is because the first sentence is true. You don't care about the EC because of some dearly held belief about democracy, you hate it because the Democrats have been the ones on the losing side of it.

You're not an ideologue, San, you're a partisan shill, you always have been, and I doubt that will ever change.

Would you concede that the reason why Republicans defend electoral college is because they lost the popular vote 2 out of 3 times they won a Presidential election?

Sure. They actually were the ones trying to tear it down in the 80s and 90s

[American Legionaries]

I didn't mention the reasons behind it's creation at all.

Yet you invented a new reason for its existence when that was not a factor at all when the delegates debated at the Constitutional Convention.

I didn't. I simply explained how it's function is not unfair.

[Tarsonis]

The electoral college is perfectly fair. It doesn't benefit Republicans, it benefits the party that happens to appeal to the people of lower population states with disproportionately powerful votes. If the Democrats appealed to those people, they could have those votes.

That is not why the electoral college was created. Stop rewriting history to suit your narrative.

Actually it is. The EC was put into place to balance the power differential between big states and little states.

[Tarsonis]

I already answered you. Don't spin us in circles because you don't want to admit the truth.

What truth is that? The electoral college is unfair and undemocratic. You like it because it benefits Republicans.

I'm not a republican. Swing and a miss

[Prima Scriptura]

Would you concede that the reason why Republicans defend electoral college is because they lost the popular vote 2 out of 3 times they won a Presidential election?

Sure. They actually were the ones trying to tear it down in the 80s and 90s

So, it’s a political football, advocacy for and against it is purely partisan at this point.

[The Two Jerseys]

Sure. They actually were the ones trying to tear it down in the 80s and 90s

So, it’s a political football, advocacy for and against it is purely partisan at this point.

Yes, and the party's position will flip as soon as they get the ball.

[Prima Scriptura]

That is not why the electoral college was created. Stop rewriting history to suit your narrative.

Actually it is. The EC was put into place to balance the power differential between big states and little states.

Ah, but do politicians put their money and focus on smaller states? I don’t think they don’t. They focus on swing states that have large electoral number of votes

[San Lumen]

Actually it is. The EC was put into place to balance the power differential between big states and little states.

Ah, but do politicians put their money and focus on smaller states? I don’t think they don’t. They focus on swing states that have large electoral number of votes

If we didn't have the electoral college they would.

[American Legionaries]

Actually it is. The EC was put into place to balance the power differential between big states and little states.

Ah, but do politicians put their money and focus on smaller states? I don’t think they don’t. They focus on swing states that have large electoral number of votes

Today? No. But we have a vastly different method of election, and a much different political dynamic, than we did when the system was created.

[Kannap]

Ah, but do politicians put their money and focus on smaller states? I don’t think they don’t. They focus on swing states that have large electoral number of votes

If we didn't have the electoral college they would.

Hahahaha no they wouldn't. If we had a popular vote system, there wouldn't even be a point of trying to woo states as bodies because you're no trying to win states, you'd be trying to win people. The new focus would likely be on cities and population centers specifically, because that's where the people are.

[San Lumen]

If we didn't have the electoral college they would.

Hahahaha no they wouldn't. If we had a popular vote system, there wouldn't even be a point of trying to woo states as bodies because you're no trying to win states, you'd be trying to win people. The new focus would likely be on cities and population centers specifically, because that's where the people are.

Oklahoma City would get visited as would places in every other state. All states would now be equal.

[American Legionaries]

Hahahaha no they wouldn't. If we had a popular vote system, there wouldn't even be a point of trying to woo states as bodies because you're no trying to win states, you'd be trying to win people. The new focus would likely be on cities and population centers specifically, because that's where the people are.

Oklahoma City would get visited as would places in every other state. All states would now be equal.

Indeed, what a glorious day it would be to go from being subservient to San Francisco's wished to being subservient to San Francisco's wishes!

[Kannap]

Actually it is. The EC was put into place to balance the power differential between big states and little states.

Ah, but do politicians put their money and focus on smaller states? I don’t think they don’t. They focus on swing states that have large electoral number of votes

That's why arguing about the electoral college on the grounds of why it was created is silly and a waste of time - it's centuries later and the modern electoral college has plenty of modern problems to argue about.

When the damn thing was created, there were only 13 states. And the "small states" that the compromise was made for to give power to were states like Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New Jersey. Ya know, small states (compared to the big states like Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.)

[The Two Jerseys]

Hahahaha no they wouldn't. If we had a popular vote system, there wouldn't even be a point of trying to woo states as bodies because you're no trying to win states, you'd be trying to win people. The new focus would likely be on cities and population centers specifically, because that's where the people are.

Oklahoma City would get visited as would places in every other state. All states would now be equal.

Who the fuck cares? Joe Biden visiting Wyoming isn't going to magically convince Wyoming residents that Democrat policies aren't trash.

[Kannap]

Hahahaha no they wouldn't. If we had a popular vote system, there wouldn't even be a point of trying to woo states as bodies because you're no trying to win states, you'd be trying to win people. The new focus would likely be on cities and population centers specifically, because that's where the people are.

Oklahoma City would get visited as would places in every other state. All states would now be equal.

Oklahoma City would likely get visited, sure. Places like Billings, Montana and Cheyenne, Wyoming? Probably not. The states would not be equal, but they're not equal in the current system either.

You're arguing for a popular vote system, get the language right. States don't vote, people do. People would be equal as everybody would have one vote, 'states' as voting bodies aren't in the equation in a popular vote system.

[Sordhau]

The Electoral College was and still is a pointless venture meant to lull rural populations into believing they have power in the system through representation, but as has been pointed out the system will not cater to most of those states but instead go for the more 'strategic' ones. Abolition of the EC would simply eliminate the illusion that rural populations have power by just making it more obvious how much they don't as the focus is shifted to population centers instead of states. The EC doesn't make anything "fair" at all - this is a misnomer. It presents the illusion of fairness in a rather anti-democratic way. Democracy, after all, is about power to the people; not the provinces (or as we call them in America, states). The fact that 'swing states' make the EC's supposed "fairness" irrelevant just prove the flaw in the system entirely, and it's patently clear that in our model of democracy there is no way to give power to rural populations at all.

[San Lumen]

Oklahoma City would get visited as would places in every other state. All states would now be equal.

Oklahoma City would likely get visited, sure. Places like Billings, Montana and Cheyenne, Wyoming? Probably not. The states would not be equal, but they're not equal in the current system either.

You're arguing for a popular vote system, get the language right. States don't vote, people do. People would be equal as everybody would have one vote, 'states' as voting bodies aren't in the equation in a popular vote system.

Why wouldn't they get visited?

[Prima Scriptura]

Oklahoma City would get visited as would places in every other state. All states would now be equal.

Who the fuck cares? Joe Biden visiting Wyoming isn't going to magically convince Wyoming residents that Democrat policies aren't trash.

With the amount of polarization in this country, nothing will change in terms of candidates campaign visits with if the electoral college was abolished.

[Kannap]

Oklahoma City would likely get visited, sure. Places like Billings, Montana and Cheyenne, Wyoming? Probably not. The states would not be equal, but they're not equal in the current system either.

You're arguing for a popular vote system, get the language right. States don't vote, people do. People would be equal as everybody would have one vote, 'states' as voting bodies aren't in the equation in a popular vote system.

Why wouldn't they get visited?

Yeah, while my opponent is somewhere schmoozing a city with 5 million people, I'm kissing the asses of 60,000 Wyomingites

[Finalis]

Ah, but do politicians put their money and focus on smaller states? I don’t think they don’t. They focus on swing states that have large electoral number of votes

If we didn't have the electoral college they would.

thank goodness for that. imagine being governed entirely by coastal america