American Politics XIV: The Dawning of the Age of the Pumpkin

[Ifreann]

I don't know about you bro but American Education is already full of bullshit. I don't like Liberals but all the changes Liberals propose in regards to education are to teach people the real history of America: the racism, the imperialism, the elitism. Not the propaganda version I was raised on where we're told we were always a free country except for that one time but don't worry we totally moved on from that.

"Liberals are injecting their political agenda into schools" is and has always been a lie.

Let's start by focusing more on reading skills and comprehension, something that is getting way too little attention lately, then move on to critical thinking and the evaluation of evidence.

If the kids can't read or understand the textbooks, what is written in them is irrelevant. If they can read and evaluate them, however, they can draw their own conclusions about history and current events. Teach how to think, not what to think.

Schools are teaching critical thinking. That's why the right is so mad about education.

[Luminesa]

I don't know about you bro but American Education is already full of bullshit. I don't like Liberals but all the changes Liberals propose in regards to education are to teach people the real history of America: the racism, the imperialism, the elitism. Not the propaganda version I was raised on where we're told we were always a free country except for that one time but don't worry we totally moved on from that.

"Liberals are injecting their political agenda into schools" is and has always been a lie.

Let's start by focusing more on reading skills and comprehension, something that is getting way too little attention lately, then move on to critical thinking and the evaluation of evidence.

If the kids can't read or understand the textbooks, what is written in them is irrelevant. If they can read and evaluate them, however, they can draw their own conclusions about history and current events. Teach how to think, not what to think.

Reading comprehension and reading skills get plenty of attention. Furthermore, the Common Core Standards for English already have children focusing on critical thinking and the evaluation of evidence as early as Grade 3. As a part of the Informational Text skills, students are expected to:
- "Describe the relationship between a series of historical events, scientific ideas or concepts, or steps in technical procedures in a text, using language that pertains to time, sequence, and cause/effect." (RI.3.3)
- "Distinguish their own point of view from that of the author of a text." (RI.3.6.)
- "Describe the logical connection between particular sentences and paragraphs in a text (e.g., comparison, cause/effect, first/second/third in a sequence)." (RI.3.7.)

Reading comprehension and reading skills are a spectrum of skills which work their way up from memorizing information to synthesis and creating new literature or works based on more basic foundational skills. There's no reason to think that reading comprehension and critical-thinking skills should be taught separately when critical thinking crosscuts into every topic a child learns in school.

[Kalivyah]

- The Mob's intent was to do that. Did they do it though? No. Did they make an effort to do it? No. Did they get close to doing any of that? No.
- Were any congressmen actually forced to take any action in favor of the protestors? No.

An "unsuccessful coup attempt" which somebody else here described January 6th as implies that the actions taken by the attackers were significant enough to be considered a coup. Nowhere other than liberal and leftist sources is January 6th called a "coup attempt" or an insurrection.

Walking into a government building and saying that you want this guy in power is not the same as actually overthrowing the government and saying that this guy is in power now. If you have actually directly threatened the government and have followed up by actually THREATENING the government physically that is what we call a "coup attempt". This is what we call a "protest".

I hate chopping up quoted posts so bear with me for a moment.

To the first two points: How successful they were is irrelevant. The point is they tried.

To the second paragraph: They briefly controlled the exterior and parts of the interior of the Capitol Building of the United States. I wouldn't call that insignificant. And you only hear leftist sources calling it a coup attempt because the GOP has been deliberately trying to twist the narrative and gaslight the whole country into believing their account of events (which, mind you, is very different than what Republicans were saying just hours after their own voters tried to hang them.)

To the last part: Again, how successful they were is irrelevant. They DID directly threaten the government physically and if they did succeed in securing members of Congress they would have killed them or forced them to keep Trump in power.

For someone claiming not to be a Trumper you sure love dying on this "it was just a protest" hill for them. In what world is breaking into the government capitol building and assaulting guards whilst chanting your intentions to murder the lawmakers inside "just a protest?"

Because I am super duper Marxist and thus revolutionary and don't like non-revolutions to be labeled as insurrections. Look at my points again. Look at the definition. You will see that January 6th cannot nor does it match up as a "coup attempt". Not only did I say that they failed in their points, they never tried. Or got close to doing that. It was nowhere near a coup attempt, and if it was, it was stage one out of 10 of the "coup attempt game", coming 2022(tm.)

You can't have a coup attempt if you don't try to do anything which you set off to do. If I say that I'm going to overthrow the government, go to the capitol and then walk around it and break some shit is that a coup or do I need to be sent back to the retirement home? Not only does intent matter but actions also matter.

The Beer Hall Putsch was a coup attempt because there was an organized and proper attempt to take power. There was an actual goal set out and leadership and cooperation taken to achieve that goal. Hitler actually managed to force some of the government officials to accept his ideology and movement even if it was under stress. Regardless that still means that he got government officials on his side... if the point of the coup was to get the government on his side (in particular the most IMPORTANT government officials of Bavaria at the time) then he succeeded at least for a little bit and hence that can be considered a coup attempt.

The protestors did not get close to even threatening the government, they couldn't lay a hand on any of the members of the Congress and no government officials stayed behind in support of the movement. It was an abysmal failure. No attempts were made. The only thing they did was walk around and break stuff and look like total fucking goofballs. By your definition of "coup attempt" I can walk into my local city hall and say that I'm mayor without doing anything. Does that mean it's a coup attempt? No.

[Rakhalia]

Let's start by focusing more on reading skills and comprehension, something that is getting way too little attention lately, then move on to critical thinking and the evaluation of evidence.

If the kids can't read or understand the textbooks, what is written in them is irrelevant. If they can read and evaluate them, however, they can draw their own conclusions about history and current events. Teach how to think, not what to think.

Schools are teaching critical thinking. That's why the right is so mad about education.

American schools definitely aren't. The American education system is designed from the top-down to turn people into hypersocialised drones

[Kalivyah]

Schools are teaching critical thinking. That's why the right is so mad about education.

American schools definitely aren't. The American education system is designed from the top-down to turn people into hypersocialised drones

Are we talking hypersocialized as in eusocial here or what

[Rakhalia]

American schools definitely aren't. The American education system is designed from the top-down to turn people into hypersocialised drones

Are we talking hypersocialized as in eusocial here or what

as in they're socialised into the norms of capitalist society through strict regimentation rather than actual education

[Umeria]

Are we talking hypersocialized as in eusocial here or what

as in they're socialised into the norms of capitalist society through strict regimentation rather than actual education

Not all societal norms are bad. Basic conversational skills, politeness, etc. are learned in schools via the experience of interacting with other students.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

Before I jump into the education debate that's happening, because oh boy do I love a good education debate...

Hurricane Ian has impacted almost 3 million people in Florida, and many people have lost everything. There are fears of a high death toll when all is said and done. The flooding is some of the worst Florida has ever seen ever.

How can you help? A few ways:
Here is one link with some resources.
Here's more, including resources about blood drives and pet shelters!
ANd some more, including more local resources if people are able to volunteer locally.

And so Cuba and the Dominican Republic not get forgotten...
Here's resources to help all three!

Pass these around, and I'll keep an eye out for more sources. The damage is as bad if not worse than Katrina's damage, and possibly as bad as Maria in many places. Please consider giving if you can.

We have a hurricane thread...

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

That describes me as well, and the older, wiser and more educated I get, the more conservative I become.

So why are conservatives so desperate to censor and sanitise education then?

If the Conservative Republicans are trying to censor and sanitise education, is because many Leftist Liberal Democrat Progressives are trying to change education to fit their Leftist Liberal Democrat Progressive Ideology.

[Untecna]

So why are conservatives so desperate to censor and sanitise education then?

If the Conservative Republicans are trying to censor and sanitise education, is because many Leftist Liberal Democrat Progressives are trying to change education to fit their Leftist Democrat Progressive Ideology.

One word: where?

[Kalivyah]

So why are conservatives so desperate to censor and sanitise education then?

If the Conservative Republicans are trying to censor and sanitise education, is because many Leftist Liberal Democrat Progressives are trying to change education to fit their Leftist Democrat Progressive Ideology.

*clown honk*

[Kerwa]

Let's start by focusing more on reading skills and comprehension, something that is getting way too little attention lately, then move on to critical thinking and the evaluation of evidence.

If the kids can't read or understand the textbooks, what is written in them is irrelevant. If they can read and evaluate them, however, they can draw their own conclusions about history and current events. Teach how to think, not what to think.

Schools are teaching critical thinking. That's why the right is so mad about education.

No they aren’t. They are - in the majority of cases - intended to condition you into performing dull repetitive tasks without complaint or question why. This is why the hyper wealthy are so keen on them; a ready supply of drones.

They are also a jobs program and used to hide the true unemployment figures.

The right hates them because of teachers unions, it’s never given a shit about what’s being taught. To the extent it comes up it is just a pretext to attack teachers.

[The Black Forrest]

"This has the feel of a giant backfire": Trump’s Demand for Special Master Is Looking Like a Mistake.

So, surprise surprise: Trump is pushing back on the Special Master's request for him to declare in court whether DOJ inventory is accurate saying that “the Special Master’s case management plan exceeds the grant of authority from the District Court on this issue” and claiming that Dearie made mention only of a declaration from a government official verifying the Justice Department’s search inventory as well as wanting extra time to go through the documents.

Essentially, they can't back their claims and they know it.

Have to say I've been pleasantly surprised by the Special Master so far. Given that he was one of the names put up by Trumps team I thought there might be something shady going on...but it seems it really did boil down to Trump assuming that everyone is a petty vindictive thug like him, and that therefore Dearie would be focused on "punishing" the FBI over some warrants he had signed off on 5 years ago getting thrown out for FBI misconduct.

Did kind of lol at the legal geniuses Trump has working for him arguing that the Special Master they nominated for the specific purpose of reviewing the materials seized by the FBI doesn't have the right to know what materials they want him to review.

I had faith in the Special Master given his reputation even among anti-Trump people. Once I saw and read that, I knew Trump was in for a rude awakening. Now, if you read above, you'll see why now.

I am starting to like Dearie. He is a smart dude and knows how to handle Trumps bullshit quite well.
Asking him to sign off on it accomplishes two things. 1) It puts them on the spot for other documents they still have. 2) It deals with the bullshit of the FBI planted documents claims.

Still the JD….is kind of “misrepresenting” the issue of the Judges access to classified documents. If he has hand any clearances before; they can be reactivated after an update. If he hasn’t, there is for a simplistic explanation a “fast path” to getting a clearance.

Anyway; they are probably holding Trump back from shooting off his mouth about the judge…traitor…democrat plant…anti-trump blah blah blah.

I do have a small amount of hope he will be punished for the security stuff…..still I will not place a great amount of hope on it due to cynicism.

[Vassenor]

So why are conservatives so desperate to censor and sanitise education then?

If the Conservative Republicans are trying to censor and sanitise education, is because many Leftist Liberal Democrat Progressives are trying to change education to fit their Leftist Liberal Democrat Progressive Ideology.

And given how common it is it will not be hard for you to find examples of Liberals doing this.

[Cannot think of a name]

I am starting to like Dearie. He is a smart dude and knows how to handle Trumps bullshit quite well.
Asking him to sign off on it accomplishes two things. 1) It puts them on the spot for other documents they still have. 2) It deals with the bullshit of the FBI planted documents claims.
.

This has an air of "you will not be throwing me under the bus" to it. Or after all this time someone is playing 3d chess and it was all part of his elaborate plan to get trump purger himself by having to attest to an unfungible amount.

[Ifreann]

Schools are teaching critical thinking. That's why the right is so mad about education.

American schools definitely aren't. The American education system is designed from the top-down to turn people into hypersocialised drones

Certainly schools as they exist today are an institution under capitalism intended to serve capitalism, but between well-intentioned teachers and parents there has always been a push for schools for schools to teach things beyond the basic skills an employer wants. They aren't just worker drone factories.

---

Schools are teaching critical thinking. That's why the right is so mad about education.

No they aren’t. They are - in the majority of cases - intended to condition you into performing dull repetitive tasks without complaint or question why. This is why the hyper wealthy are so keen on them; a ready supply of drones.

They are also a jobs program and used to hide the true unemployment figures.

The right hates them because of teachers unions, it’s never given a shit about what’s being taught. To the extent it comes up it is just a pretext to attack teachers.

The right cares deeply about what is taught in schools, because controlling that is how they will indoctrinate the next generation of right wingers. Look at what they are outraged about. Acceptance of gay and trans people. History classes that centre the plight of slaves. Reaching further back to the distant past of the 00s, evolution. Years ago there was a story posted here that's always stuck in my mind. The Texas GOP demanding an end to lessons on "higher order thinking skills" because they would undermine parental authority. That's what their mad about. That's what they're always mad about. Schools giving kids the tools to not inherit their parents' politics.

[Gravlen]

That describes me as well, and the older, wiser and more educated I get, the more conservative I become.

I don’t man. All your liberals are the devil talk doesn’t sound that educated let alone wise.

I love it when the "satanist" complain that the liberals are the devil

[Kannap]

In a reversal, the Education Dept. is excluding millions from student loan relief

Just in case you thought Biden was doing the least he could do by his student loan forgiveness plan announced last month, rest assured he's proven he can do less.

[Prima Scriptura]

I cannot wait for Trump and DeSantis to start talking shit about each other in public. It’s already happening in private and it’s being reported on the mainstream news. I still don’t know why Trump fat shames DeSantis, when the mother fucker is no slim Jim of the bone yard either.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

I cannot wait for Trump and DeSantis to start talking shit about each other in public. It’s already happening in private and it’s being reported on the mainstream news. I still don’t know why Trump fat shames DeSantis, when the mother fucker is no slim Jim of the bone yard either.

Nixon’s Children Battle For Cult Money!

[Zurkerx]

udge Cannon has overruled the Special Master, saying that Trump doesn't need to prove the accuracy of the FBI inventory.

She is absolutely going to be a thorn in the side of the DOJ, and Dearie, who are skeptical of Trump's claims. Had Trump been forced to comply with Dearie's demands, it would have likely weakened Trump's defenses, if not proved him lying. She has been willing to give Trump extra protections though I don't believe the DOJ can do anything to get her booted from the case. Either way, it's a setback for Dearie and the DOJ.

[Luminesa]

Before I jump into the education debate that's happening, because oh boy do I love a good education debate...

Hurricane Ian has impacted almost 3 million people in Florida, and many people have lost everything. There are fears of a high death toll when all is said and done. The flooding is some of the worst Florida has ever seen ever.

How can you help? A few ways:
Here is one link with some resources.
Here's more, including resources about blood drives and pet shelters!
ANd some more, including more local resources if people are able to volunteer locally.

And so Cuba and the Dominican Republic not get forgotten...
Here's resources to help all three!

Pass these around, and I'll keep an eye out for more sources. The damage is as bad if not worse than Katrina's damage, and possibly as bad as Maria in many places. Please consider giving if you can.

We have a hurricane thread...

The requested topic does not exist...

[The Black Forrest]

udge Cannon has overruled the Special Master, saying that Trump doesn't need to prove the accuracy of the FBI inventory.

She is absolutely going to be a thorn in the side of the DOJ, and Dearie, who are skeptical of Trump's claims. Had Trump been forced to comply with Dearie's demands, it would have likely weakened Trump's defenses, if not proved him lying. She has been willing to give Trump extra protections though I don't believe the DOJ can do anything to get her booted from the case. Either way, it's a setback for Dearie and the DOJ.

Wasn't she appointed by Trump?

Trump should sign off on the docs. It would force him to give up the rest (I think there are more) and it tosses the conspiracy bullshit of "duh it was planted by the deep state!!!!!!"

He can claim attorney client privilege for the general crap. The classified?....sorry doesn't work that way. Him saying he owns what he took? As usual a big fucking lie. He can only "own" what is open to the public. The intel is not his.

[Zurkerx]

udge Cannon has overruled the Special Master, saying that Trump doesn't need to prove the accuracy of the FBI inventory.

She is absolutely going to be a thorn in the side of the DOJ, and Dearie, who are skeptical of Trump's claims. Had Trump been forced to comply with Dearie's demands, it would have likely weakened Trump's defenses, if not proved him lying. She has been willing to give Trump extra protections though I don't believe the DOJ can do anything to get her booted from the case. Either way, it's a setback for Dearie and the DOJ.

Wasn't she appointed by Trump?

Trump should sign off on the docs. It would force him to give up the rest (I think there are more) and it tosses the conspiracy bullshit of "duh it was planted by the deep state!!!!!!"

He can claim attorney client privilege for the general crap. The classified?....sorry doesn't work that way. Him saying he owns what he took? As usual a big fucking lie. He can only "own" what is open to the public. The intel is not his.

Yes, she was, and is a member of the Federalist Society. And likely there is but he ain't going to admit to that, at least, not now until he blows that. But I feel she's protecting him because he was a former President, and for some reason, former Presidents have greater protections. I get in some cases there needs to be leniency but she has given him the world.

But the DOJ can continue its criminal investigation, which is the big one. These are mere obstacles she and Trump are putting up.

Trump I feel will try to claim Executive Privilege on a lot of documents, including classified information but it won't work. But yes, you are right on that: it's not his property either way, which the law is clear about.

[Prima Scriptura]

Wasn't she appointed by Trump?

Trump should sign off on the docs. It would force him to give up the rest (I think there are more) and it tosses the conspiracy bullshit of "duh it was planted by the deep state!!!!!!"

He can claim attorney client privilege for the general crap. The classified?....sorry doesn't work that way. Him saying he owns what he took? As usual a big fucking lie. He can only "own" what is open to the public. The intel is not his.

Yes, she was, and is a member of the Federalist Society. And likely there is but he ain't going to admit to that, at least, not now until he blows that. But I feel she's protecting him because he was a former President, and for some reason, former Presidents have greater protections. I get in some cases there needs to be leniency but she has given him the world.

But the DOJ can continue its criminal investigation, which is the big one. These are mere obstacles she and Trump are putting up.

Trump I feel will try to claim Executive Privilege on a lot of documents, including classified information but it won't work. But yes, you are right on that: it's not his property either way, which the law is clear about.

Nah, she is protecting him because she supports him politically.