American Politics XIV: The Dawning of the Age of the Pumpkin

[San Lumen]

Rail strike time

Strikes will not happen till early November.

[Ifreann]

Not everyone can afford a petrol car, does that mean you're an elitist for wanting to keep them on the market?

Your argument makes no sense, as usual. I don’t want electric cars banned, if someone wants to buy a Tesla, let them buy a Tesla. But not everyone can afford one.

If it's elitist to promote electric cars when not everyone can afford then isn't it also elitist to promote petrol cars when not everyone can afford them?

[San Lumen]

No one is a serf. You merely don’t like that those with your beliefs which happen to align with rural communities don’t always dominate the government.

You don't even know my beliefs San, subtedly trying to call me a republican didn't make it any more accurate than when you overty did it. Stop projecting your hypocrisies on other people.

Why won’t you say the reason this is a problem in New York but not Ohio or Missouri?

Because I never said that. I'm not gonna explain a premise I've never asserted nor believed.

What I’m almost certain I said was it makes perfect sense but there are flaws.

No you said it makes perfect sense except for cities. Which are somehow exempt from this setup that makes sense at litterally ever other level of government. You're not half as subtle as you think you are San. Your rationale is telegraphed ridiculously clearly.

You oppose the EC, not because a "belief in democracy," but because it handed Trump a victory. If the roles were reversed, and Trump won the Popular vote but lost the EC to Clinton, you wouldn't be demanding the EC tear up the votes and declare Trump the winner. You wouldn't calling for the ECs destruction, you'd be praising it as a genius mechanic the founders had envisioned.

You want to expand the senate, not because a "belief in democracy," but because the Republicans control the senate which has been used to put 3 conservative justices on the court and block legislation you wanted passed. If the roles were reversed, an it were democrats that controlled the senate while the Republicans had the house and a larger voter base, and 3 liberal justices pushed through and blocking legislation you absolutely hated, You would oppose any effort to expand the Senate and be thanking your lucky stars the founders set up a system that way.


You're harping proportional representation, not because a "belief in democracy." but because you know that urban areas are more densely populated than rural areas while being typically more liberal than rurals. You know this means the city caucuses will always be able to dominate thr rural caucuses, which is mostly a built in advantage for the democrats. With Republicans holding so many states, all democrat states are vital to protect. You will opposed any system that might weaken their hold on those states.

You'd be lying if you denied any of those examples, and we both know it. I don't even blame you, there's valid reason to be concerned and tempted to violate the Constitution to keep them out of power. But don't pretend you care about democracy, you don't. You will sacrifice any tenant of democracy if it means keeping Democrats in power, because that is all that matters to you, and you've admitted it multiple times over.

Unlike you, I don't believe in Republicans or Democrats, I believe in the system. It works, even when it doesn't produce the results I'd like. I actually believe in American Democracy and the principles behind how it operates. You don't, you're just tired of losing.

You absolutely did allege its only a problem in blue states. You singled out states with very large cities especially New York yet somehow if St Louis and Kansas City get or Jackson get shafted and ignored by their state legislatures that's ok. Just admit you have a double standard and are a hypocrite.

Once again you turn this back on me and fail to address anything I said because you don’t have answers.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

corruption and factionalism will continue to exist regardless of whether businessmen, the state, or workers own businesses.

Sure, but it can be mitigated to the point where things do work in favor of working people.

the only way I can see socialism inherently doing that is that campaign donations might favor pro-worker's rights candidates.

[Free Algerstonia]

Rail strike time

Strikes will not happen till early November.

i hope it happens before election day

[San Lumen]

Strikes will not happen till early November.

i hope it happens before election day

Why?

[Free Algerstonia]

i hope it happens before election day

Why?

so then people will not vote for the democratic candidates due to the rail strike destroying the economy

[San Lumen]

Why?

so then people will not vote for the democratic candidates due to the rail strike destroying the economy

I know you post satire so im just going to interpret this as another one of those. It stopped being funny a long time ago.

[Grinning Dragon]

Rail strike time

Strikes will not happen till early November.

TBH, why should they have to wait till Nov.?
I'd say if it's that important to the workers, they need to do what they need to do, damn the election cycle.

[Tarsonis]

You don't even know my beliefs San, subtedly trying to call me a republican didn't make it any more accurate than when you overty did it. Stop projecting your hypocrisies on other people.



Because I never said that. I'm not gonna explain a premise I've never asserted nor believed.




No you said it makes perfect sense except for cities. Which are somehow exempt from this setup that makes sense at litterally ever other level of government. You're not half as subtle as you think you are San. Your rationale is telegraphed ridiculously clearly.

You oppose the EC, not because a "belief in democracy," but because it handed Trump a victory. If the roles were reversed, and Trump won the Popular vote but lost the EC to Clinton, you wouldn't be demanding the EC tear up the votes and declare Trump the winner. You wouldn't calling for the ECs destruction, you'd be praising it as a genius mechanic the founders had envisioned.

You want to expand the senate, not because a "belief in democracy," but because the Republicans control the senate which has been used to put 3 conservative justices on the court and block legislation you wanted passed. If the roles were reversed, an it were democrats that controlled the senate while the Republicans had the house and a larger voter base, and 3 liberal justices pushed through and blocking legislation you absolutely hated, You would oppose any effort to expand the Senate and be thanking your lucky stars the founders set up a system that way.


You're harping proportional representation, not because a "belief in democracy." but because you know that urban areas are more densely populated than rural areas while being typically more liberal than rurals. You know this means the city caucuses will always be able to dominate thr rural caucuses, which is mostly a built in advantage for the democrats. With Republicans holding so many states, all democrat states are vital to protect. You will opposed any system that might weaken their hold on those states.

You'd be lying if you denied any of those examples, and we both know it. I don't even blame you, there's valid reason to be concerned and tempted to violate the Constitution to keep them out of power. But don't pretend you care about democracy, you don't. You will sacrifice any tenant of democracy if it means keeping Democrats in power, because that is all that matters to you, and you've admitted it multiple times over.

Unlike you, I don't believe in Republicans or Democrats, I believe in the system. It works, even when it doesn't produce the results I'd like. I actually believe in American Democracy and the principles behind how it operates. You don't, you're just tired of losing.

You absolutely did allege its only a problem in blue states.

Nope, as has been pointed out by me and multiple people, only you have made that assertion. The words "blue states only" has not been said by me once in reference to this issue. You're projecting your own motivations on to other people.

You singled out states with very large cities especially New York

Nope I just singled out New York specifically and explained why. Stop lying San.

yet somehow if St Louis and Kansas City get or Jackson get shafted and ignored by their state legislatures that's ok.

I never said that. Either quote me where I said that was okay, or Stop lying, San.

Just admit you have a double standard and are a hypocrite.

I'm not you San.

Once again you turn this back on me and fail to address anything I said because you don’t have answers.

That's because everything you have said are demonstrable lies.

[Kannap]

so then people will not vote for the democratic candidates due to the rail strike destroying the economy

I know you post satire so im just going to interpret this as another one of those. It stopped being funny a long time ago.

Was it also satire, then, when you spent pages railing about how a railroad strike would destroy the economy and cost the Democrats the election?

[San Lumen]

Strikes will not happen till early November.

TBH, why should they have to wait till Nov.?
I'd say if it's that important to the workers, they need to do what they need to do, damn the election cycle.

They can't strike until all the unions have voted and all the votes have been tailed which will take until earl November. They also agreed to a cooling off period which they must abide by.

[San Lumen]

You absolutely did allege its only a problem in blue states.

Nope, as has been pointed out by me and multiple people, only you have made that assertion. The words "blue states only" has not been said by me once in reference to this issue. You're projecting your own motivations on to other people.

You singled out states with very large cities especially New York

Nope I just singled out New York specifically and explained why. Stop lying San.

yet somehow if St Louis and Kansas City get or Jackson get shafted and ignored by their state legislatures that's ok.

I never said that. Either quote me where I said that was okay, or Stop lying, San.

Just admit you have a double standard and are a hypocrite.

I'm not you San.

Once again you turn this back on me and fail to address anything I said because you don’t have answers.

That's because everything you have said are demonstrable lies.

I made that allegation because you refuse to refute it. You single out New York and only New York with hyperbole and lies. Any attempt I make to refute your proposal or explain how its unfair you dismiss it with stupid childish comments or your talking points.

Jackson has been ignored by the Mississippi legislature for years but you see no problem there. Its the farmers in rural New York who are being ignored and you have zero evidence to back this up.

you said this "so the farmers and mountaineers can get fucked right? since there's more cityslickers" Where is your evidence of this? Why is this a problem in New York but not Mississippi? Or does your argument only consist of people outvote me so its not fair.

[Tarsonis]

Nope, as has been pointed out by me and multiple people, only you have made that assertion. The words "blue states only" has not been said by me once in reference to this issue. You're projecting your own motivations on to other people.




Nope I just singled out New York specifically and explained why. Stop lying San.




I never said that. Either quote me where I said that was okay, or Stop lying, San.




I'm not you San.



That's because everything you have said are demonstrable lies.

I made that allegation because you refuse to refute it. You single out New York and only New York with hyperbole and lies. Any attempt I make to refute your proposal or explain how its unfair you dismiss it with stupid childish comments or your talking points.

No, that's what you do San. I dismiss your talking points because they're childish. Stop projecting

Jackson has been ignored by the Mississippi legislature for years but you see no problem there. Its the farmers in rural New York who are being ignored and you have zero evidence to back this up.

Mississippi should be flown to Jupiter on the back of a giant bear. I make these comments because you're trying to derail the conversation with bs whatabboutisms I never refuted. Go ahead, quote me where I said it's okay in red states but not blue states. I'll wait.

you said this "so the farmers and mountaineers can get fucked right? since there's more cityslickers" Where is your evidence of this? Why is this a problem in New York but not Mississippi? Or does your argument only consist of people outvote me so its not fair.

I said that in your response to essentially saying fuck the farmers they're not worth as much as the city. It's not a blue state or red state thing as you keep erroneously trying to deflect, it's your attitude.

Keep lying San.

[San Lumen]

I made that allegation because you refuse to refute it. You single out New York and only New York with hyperbole and lies. Any attempt I make to refute your proposal or explain how its unfair you dismiss it with stupid childish comments or your talking points.

No, that's what you do San. I dismiss your talking points because they're childish. Stop projecting

Jackson has been ignored by the Mississippi legislature for years but you see no problem there. Its the farmers in rural New York who are being ignored and you have zero evidence to back this up.

Mississippi should be flown to Jupiter on the back of a giant bear. I make these comments because you're trying to derail the conversation with bs whatabboutisms I never refuted. Go ahead, quote me where I said it's okay in red states but not blue states. I'll wait.

you said this "so the farmers and mountaineers can get fucked right? since there's more cityslickers" Where is your evidence of this? Why is this a problem in New York but not Mississippi? Or does your argument only consist of people outvote me so its not fair.

I said that in your response to essentially saying fuck the farmers they're not worth as much as the city. It's not a blue state or red state thing as you keep erroneously trying to deflect, it's your attitude.

Keep lying San.

If your argument was consistent and clear you could explain why its not a problem in Mississippi or Missouri yet you refuse.

I never said screw the farmers. No one is worth more than anyone else and your proposal makes their votes worth more because NYC or Chicago has more people. Cattle, crops and dirt does not vote but you seem to think it does.

[Grinning Dragon]

TBH, why should they have to wait till Nov.?
I'd say if it's that important to the workers, they need to do what they need to do, damn the election cycle.

They can't strike until all the unions have voted and all the votes have been tailed which will take until earl November. They also agreed to a cooling off period which they must abide by.

Actually they can strike anytime they like. Now whether it would be a union sanctioned strike would be different matter. Workers can strike anytime they feel like it.

[San Lumen]

They can't strike until all the unions have voted and all the votes have been tailed which will take until earl November. They also agreed to a cooling off period which they must abide by.

Actually they can strike anytime they like. Now whether it would be a union sanctioned strike would be different matter. Workers can strike anytime they feel like it.

Thats not how a union works. They can face consequences if they break the cooling off period.

[Tarsonis]

No, that's what you do San. I dismiss your talking points because they're childish. Stop projecting



Mississippi should be flown to Jupiter on the back of a giant bear. I make these comments because you're trying to derail the conversation with bs whatabboutisms I never refuted. Go ahead, quote me where I said it's okay in red states but not blue states. I'll wait.



I said that in your response to essentially saying fuck the farmers they're not worth as much as the city. It's not a blue state or red state thing as you keep erroneously trying to deflect, it's your attitude.

Keep lying San.

If your argument was consistent and clear you could explain why its not a problem in Mississippi or Missouri yet you refuse.

Because, San, I never made that argument. Site me where I did. Don't paraphrase, quote the post. I'm not going to defend an argument I never made. You're strawmaning.

I never said screw the farmers. No one is worth more than anyone else and your proposal makes their votes worth more because NYC or Chicago has more people. Cattle, crops and dirt does not vote but you seem to think it does.

[/quote]

And you admitted it made perfect sense. You can try to circle back to this erroneous argument but you already conceded my point, even if you tried to do so underhandedly.

[San Lumen]

If your argument was consistent and clear you could explain why its not a problem in Mississippi or Missouri yet you refuse. [/quotr[

Because, San, I never made that argument. Site me where I did. Don't paraphrase, quote the post. I'm not going to defend an argument I never made. You're strawmaning.

And you admitted it made perfect sense. You can try to circle back to this erroneous argument but you already conceded my point, even if you tried to do so underhandedly.

I said it made perfect sense but its flawed. it is apparent you have no rebuttal to any of my points and would rather bash cities and claim farmers are superior and deserve their crops and cattle having votes. Why don't you tell your legislator to introduce a bill that the amount of cattle and acreage of land a famers has shall contribute to the amount their vote counts? Small towns had have their votes weighted. You want to make stupid statements so can I.

[Grinning Dragon]

Actually they can strike anytime they like. Now whether it would be a union sanctioned strike would be different matter. Workers can strike anytime they feel like it.

Thats not how a union works. They can face consequences if they break the cooling off period.

Did you read what I wrote.
I've worked my fair share of union shops, trade and labor and IBEW.
Any workers can strike, the issue is whether the union would back an unsanctioned strike.

[Tarsonis]

And you admitted it made perfect sense. You can try to circle back to this erroneous argument but you already conceded my point, even if you tried to do so underhandedly.

I said it made perfect sensebut its flawed. it is apparent you have no rebuttal to any of my points and would rather bash cities and claim farmers are superior and deserve their crops and cattle having votes. Why don't you tell your legislator to introduce a bill that the amount of cattle and acreage of land a famers has shall contribute to the amount their vote counts? Small towns had have their votes weighted. You want to make stupid statements so can I.

You should have stopped at the underlined. Everything after is your nonsense whining.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Didn’t this thread have a similar conversation with Lumen a week ago?

[The Black Forrest]

Didn’t this thread have a similar conversation with Lumen a week ago?

Like GMS; things are often repeated.

[The Jamesian Republic]

Didn’t this thread have a similar conversation with Lumen a week ago?

Like GMS; things are often repeated.

*Sideshow Bob Getting Whacked With A Rake Noise*

[American Legionaries]

Like GMS; things are often repeated.

*Sideshow Bob Getting Whacked With A Rack Noise*

This is NSG, if you expected productive debate, you're in for disappointment.