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The Ukrainian War IV: "And von Moltke Laughed ..."

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Vistulange
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Vistulange » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:49 am

Risottia wrote:
Vistulange wrote:There is very little gained by blocking Russians from the EU. As Picairn pointed out, the folks who like to go to Europe, such as those with yachts sitting in some European marina or another, will not be deterred by this as they will probably put their connections into play—Gerhard Schröder, anybody?—and the ordinary Russian will be stuck, but with what reason, that is unclear.

The ordinary Russian cannot afford going on holiday to the EU, as the average GDP(nominal)/capita of Russia is 12 k$.
If the oligarchs' connections are just Schröder, well, we can be rather safe in assuming they'll stay out, as Schröder doesn't wield power enough to overrule the Bundesregierung.

Schröder was an example, Risottia, chosen to make a point. You surely don't think I believe that it begins and ends at the former Chancellor?
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Deblar
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Deblar » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:01 am

Perikuresu wrote:Ngl, I expected Novorossiya to return in some way shape or form, but given the recent announcement of an annexation referendum in Zaporizhzhia (+ we already know there's gonna be one in Kherson and Luhansk) I think Putin's just scrapped the whole project entirely (ok, that was already known for years, but I thought it'd still linger) and decided to just take out the middle man and annex these territories outright.

Also it seems a bit counter intuitive to recognised DPR and LPR as nations just to annex them into Russia imo, maybe that's why they're doing it with Zaporizhzhia and Kherson first ig

Well, the United States recognized the Republic of Texas before annexing it, so I suppose it’s not that uncommon. But yeah, still pretty counterintuitive as you said.

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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:10 am

Picairn wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Oh, and a giant no-prize for anyone figuring out the title.

Let me guess, this is Helmuth von Moltke the Elder who is laughing because the Russians lack a professional NCO corps trained in mission command, which he pioneered.

No. Good guess, though.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
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<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:46 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Picairn wrote:Let me guess, this is Helmuth von Moltke the Elder who is laughing because the Russians lack a professional NCO corps trained in mission command, which he pioneered.

No. Good guess, though.


Well there's always von Moltke the Younger who screwed up the Schliffen Plan (he of "Your Majesty, we have lost the war."), or Helmuth James von Moltke who tried to undermine the human rights abuses of Nazi Germany in the occupied territories.
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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:12 pm

Perikuresu wrote:Ngl, I expected Novorossiya to return in some way shape or form, but given the recent announcement of an annexation referendum in Zaporizhzhia (+ we already know there's gonna be one in Kherson and Luhansk) I think Putin's just scrapped the whole project entirely (ok, that was already known for years, but I thought it'd still linger) and decided to just take out the middle man and annex these territories outright.

Also it seems a bit counter intuitive to recognised DPR and LPR as nations just to annex them into Russia imo, maybe that's why they're doing it with Zaporizhzhia and Kherson first ig


It's a very common tactic. Novorossiya was never a real project or serious idea- the plan was integration with Russia pretty much from the start.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Sordhau
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Sordhau » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:59 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Picairn wrote:Let me guess, this is Helmuth von Moltke the Elder who is laughing because the Russians lack a professional NCO corps trained in mission command, which he pioneered.

No. Good guess, though.


My dude let's be honest here: the odds that somebody other than Arch knows what you're referring to is less likely than an unconditional Russian surrender. You may as well just tell us what the thread title is supposed to mean smh.
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:08 pm

Sordhau wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:No. Good guess, though.


My dude let's be honest here: the odds that somebody other than Arch knows what you're referring to is less likely than an unconditional Russian surrender. You may as well just tell us what the thread title is supposed to mean smh.

Tsk, kids today ... "Kein Operationsplan reicht mit einiger Sicherheit über das erste Zusammentreffen mit der feindlichen Hauptmacht hinaus."
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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Sordhau
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Sordhau » Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:11 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Sordhau wrote:
My dude let's be honest here: the odds that somebody other than Arch knows what you're referring to is less likely than an unconditional Russian surrender. You may as well just tell us what the thread title is supposed to mean smh.

Tsk, kids today ... "Kein Operationsplan reicht mit einiger Sicherheit über das erste Zusammentreffen mit der feindlichen Hauptmacht hinaus."


Always knew the quote tbh. Never knew who it was from, though. Picairn was indeed close after all.
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The House of Hamid
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:01 pm

Nah, we need less Moltke and more Guderian! If the tanks succeed, then victory follows. :twisted:
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:05 pm

The House of Hamid wrote:Nah, we need less Moltke and more Guderian! If the tanks succeed, then victory follows. :twisted:

Yeah ... you missed the point. Translate the quote.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
This is the eighth line. If your signature is longer, it's too long.

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The House of Hamid
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:10 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
The House of Hamid wrote:Nah, we need less Moltke and more Guderian! If the tanks succeed, then victory follows. :twisted:

Yeah ... you missed the point. Translate the quote.


"Wenn die Panzer Erfolg haben, dann folgt der Sieg" ? :eyebrow:
Last edited by The House of Hamid on Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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●▬ஜ☪ 1881 - 193∞ ☪ஜ▬●
Yaşasın Azərbaycan Qəhrəmanları!
"Fakat zehir kadar acı olsa da hakikat ilacını içiniz." - Kâzım Karabekir
Better to have lived a free man and be damned than to have lived a slave and be rewarded for it.

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Vistulange
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Founded: May 13, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Vistulange » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:12 pm

The House of Hamid wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Yeah ... you missed the point. Translate the quote.


"Wenn die Panzer Erfolg haben, dann folgt der Sieg" ? :eyebrow:

The other one.
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The House of Hamid
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:16 pm

Vistulange wrote:
The House of Hamid wrote:
"Wenn die Panzer Erfolg haben, dann folgt der Sieg" ? :eyebrow:

The other one.


Why? It's already in here, both in english and german which I speak both. Yes, I know, no plan survives contact... but there's still the old Fritz: "l'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace." :D

Edit: what I am trying to say is: the worst decision to make is none. Without attack no plan will ever matter anyway, haydi ileri!
Last edited by The House of Hamid on Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-ПТН- -ХЛО-
●▬ஜ☪ 1881 - 193∞ ☪ஜ▬●
Yaşasın Azərbaycan Qəhrəmanları!
"Fakat zehir kadar acı olsa da hakikat ilacını içiniz." - Kâzım Karabekir
Better to have lived a free man and be damned than to have lived a slave and be rewarded for it.

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The Lone Alliance
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Founded: May 25, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Lone Alliance » Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:35 pm

Continental Free States wrote:Wonder how many times a day you're gonna need to change this tbh.

I'll do an update every few days, I already have at least 3 old entries I missed and a couple new entries to add.

Perikuresu wrote:What started off as burning the already crisp picked cherries from a NS user has turned into it's own thing

At this point I consider it a public service, next time some concern troll shows up with "How do we know this Russian thing is lying because the west lies about this WHATABOUTISM" We can simply point to the list, I'm even thinking about sources to each entry of every time Russia's made the lie.

Shamhnan Insir wrote:What do we think of the EU visa ban on Russians?

I think it's fair. Can't be party to a country bombing the shit out of a neighbor and consider it unfair that the other neighbors will deny you a cosy holiday destination.

Personally I'd rather push for deportation of all these Russian expats I've seen openly harassing Ukrainian refugees and other folks. Since most of them are the children of the Russian elite it's really just adding another layer of pressure on said elites. "Now you have to listen to your bratty children whine that their visa to study at some European party college was revoked" .
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
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Thermodolia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:26 pm

Sky Reavers wrote:I wonder, what in the end of this war Russia gonna gain and lose?

I remember, how 23 Febuary, the day before the war, I thought, that Russia won't attack, because if they do such a rash decision, they will have to deal with tons of consequences.
Well, I was somewhat right. They attacked and they face tons of consequences.

At best they are going to be China’s bitch at worse is well bad really bad
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Thermodolia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:31 pm

Deblar wrote:
Perikuresu wrote:Ngl, I expected Novorossiya to return in some way shape or form, but given the recent announcement of an annexation referendum in Zaporizhzhia (+ we already know there's gonna be one in Kherson and Luhansk) I think Putin's just scrapped the whole project entirely (ok, that was already known for years, but I thought it'd still linger) and decided to just take out the middle man and annex these territories outright.

Also it seems a bit counter intuitive to recognised DPR and LPR as nations just to annex them into Russia imo, maybe that's why they're doing it with Zaporizhzhia and Kherson first ig

Well, the United States recognized the Republic of Texas before annexing it, so I suppose it’s not that uncommon. But yeah, still pretty counterintuitive as you said.

Ya but the US didn’t recognize and then immediately annex. They waited about 10 years because the next administration wasn’t in an annexation mood.

A similar situation happened in Hawaii
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I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

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The House of Hamid
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:34 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Sky Reavers wrote:I wonder, what in the end of this war Russia gonna gain and lose?

I remember, how 23 Febuary, the day before the war, I thought, that Russia won't attack, because if they do such a rash decision, they will have to deal with tons of consequences.
Well, I was somewhat right. They attacked and they face tons of consequences.

At best they are going to be China’s bitch at worse is well bad really bad


Still better than an american lackey. :D

Srsly, all the US has done regarding Ukraine was to fill the coffers of its rich f**** billionaire military-industrial complex by selling weapons. They don't give a **** about the people, all they care about is their filthy money, as usual.

They should all be locked up with nothing but dollars to eat. Or better...give them food but no TP but a wad of their dirty money. And then wait until they use it. :twisted:
Last edited by The House of Hamid on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-ПТН- -ХЛО-
●▬ஜ☪ 1881 - 193∞ ☪ஜ▬●
Yaşasın Azərbaycan Qəhrəmanları!
"Fakat zehir kadar acı olsa da hakikat ilacını içiniz." - Kâzım Karabekir
Better to have lived a free man and be damned than to have lived a slave and be rewarded for it.

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Vistulange
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Vistulange » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:43 pm

The House of Hamid wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:At best they are going to be China’s bitch at worse is well bad really bad


Still better than an american lackey. :D

Srsly, all the US has done regarding Ukraine was to fill the coffers of its rich f**** billionaire military-industrial complex by selling weapons. They don't give a **** about the people, all they care about is their filthy money, as usual.

They should all be locked up with nothing but dollars to eat. :twisted:

Not the ulusalcı take, please not the ulusalcı take.
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The House of Hamid
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:45 pm

Vistulange wrote:
The House of Hamid wrote:
Still better than an american lackey. :D

Srsly, all the US has done regarding Ukraine was to fill the coffers of its rich f**** billionaire military-industrial complex by selling weapons. They don't give a **** about the people, all they care about is their filthy money, as usual.

They should all be locked up with nothing but dollars to eat. :twisted:

Not the ulusalcı take, please not the ulusalcı take.


Edit:

Come on, we've been over it., Perincek is a moron... Soysal on the other hand... he's got a point! :D
Last edited by The House of Hamid on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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●▬ஜ☪ 1881 - 193∞ ☪ஜ▬●
Yaşasın Azərbaycan Qəhrəmanları!
"Fakat zehir kadar acı olsa da hakikat ilacını içiniz." - Kâzım Karabekir
Better to have lived a free man and be damned than to have lived a slave and be rewarded for it.

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:49 pm

The House of Hamid wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:At best they are going to be China’s bitch at worse is well bad really bad


Still better than an american lackey. :D

Srsly, all the US has done regarding Ukraine was to fill the coffers of its rich f**** billionaire military-industrial complex by selling weapons. They don't give a **** about the people, all they care about is their filthy money, as usual.

They should all be locked up with nothing but dollars to eat. Or better...give them food but no TP but a wad of their dirty money. And then wait until they use it. :twisted:

You do realize that we haven’t asked Ukraine for a dime right?

We haven’t sold them any weapons. We are literally giving them away and that’s caused a lot of political problems because there are people here who think we should be charging them not giving them aid
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I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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The House of Hamid
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Founded: Jun 27, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:56 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
The House of Hamid wrote:
Still better than an american lackey. :D

Srsly, all the US has done regarding Ukraine was to fill the coffers of its rich f**** billionaire military-industrial complex by selling weapons. They don't give a **** about the people, all they care about is their filthy money, as usual.

They should all be locked up with nothing but dollars to eat. Or better...give them food but no TP but a wad of their dirty money. And then wait until they use it. :twisted:

You do realize that we haven’t asked Ukraine for a dime right?

We haven’t sold them any weapons. We are literally giving them away and that’s caused a lot of political problems because there are people here who think we should be charging them not giving them aid


Pfffh... America. All you love is money, all you want is more power. Your "american dream" is but one more nightmare. Everything you are can be bought and sold, like some dead fish. You want the rest of the world to be the same... to be bought and sold. You don't acknowledge anything else, you have no respect. Your ideas reduce the world to a whorehouse.
Last edited by The House of Hamid on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-ПТН- -ХЛО-
●▬ஜ☪ 1881 - 193∞ ☪ஜ▬●
Yaşasın Azərbaycan Qəhrəmanları!
"Fakat zehir kadar acı olsa da hakikat ilacını içiniz." - Kâzım Karabekir
Better to have lived a free man and be damned than to have lived a slave and be rewarded for it.

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Terminus Station
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Posts: 330
Founded: Jun 13, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Terminus Station » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:03 pm

The House of Hamid wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:You do realize that we haven’t asked Ukraine for a dime right?

We haven’t sold them any weapons. We are literally giving them away and that’s caused a lot of political problems because there are people here who think we should be charging them not giving them aid


Pfffh... America. All you love is money, all you want is more power. F*** that. Everything you are can be bought and sold, like some dead fish. You want the rest of the world to be the same... to be bought and sold. You don't acknowledge anything else, you have no respect. Capitalism reduces the world to a whorehouse.

Right but it's a profitable whorehouse, which is better than a nonprofitable one. You can deny it all you want but having money solves a lot of problems.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Posts: 22010
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:03 pm

The House of Hamid wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:At best they are going to be China’s bitch at worse is well bad really bad


Still better than an american lackey. :D

Srsly, all the US has done regarding Ukraine was to fill the coffers of its rich f**** billionaire military-industrial complex by selling weapons. They don't give a **** about the people, all they care about is their filthy money, as usual.

They should all be locked up with nothing but dollars to eat. Or better...give them food but no TP but a wad of their dirty money. And then wait until they use it. :twisted:

The modern Western political intellectual ladies and gentlemen... smh why am i even in the same camp as you lot
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:05 pm

Terminus Station wrote:
The House of Hamid wrote:
Pfffh... America. All you love is money, all you want is more power. F*** that. Everything you are can be bought and sold, like some dead fish. You want the rest of the world to be the same... to be bought and sold. You don't acknowledge anything else, you have no respect. Capitalism reduces the world to a whorehouse.

Right but it's a profitable whorehouse, which is better than a nonprofitable one. You can deny it all you want but having money solves a lot of problems.

Still we literally aren’t making a profit on Ukraine. We didn’t even ask them for money. We’ve sent 10s of billions worth of aid no strings attached.

That amount has caused many people to question if giving them that amount is a good idea
Male, State Socialist, Cultural Nationalist, Welfare Chauvinist lives somewhere in AZ I'm GAY! Disabled US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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The House of Hamid
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Founded: Jun 27, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The House of Hamid » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:06 pm

Terminus Station wrote:
The House of Hamid wrote:
Pfffh... America. All you love is money, all you want is more power. F*** that. Everything you are can be bought and sold, like some dead fish. You want the rest of the world to be the same... to be bought and sold. You don't acknowledge anything else, you have no respect. Capitalism reduces the world to a whorehouse.

Right but it's a profitable whorehouse, which is better than a nonprofitable one. You can deny it all you want but having money solves a lot of problems.


q.e.d

Money, money, money. Go eat some money, go and make a baby with it. Go have some lovely sexual adventures with it...oh wait. :D

Worthless asshole-paper.
Last edited by The House of Hamid on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-ПТН- -ХЛО-
●▬ஜ☪ 1881 - 193∞ ☪ஜ▬●
Yaşasın Azərbaycan Qəhrəmanları!
"Fakat zehir kadar acı olsa da hakikat ilacını içiniz." - Kâzım Karabekir
Better to have lived a free man and be damned than to have lived a slave and be rewarded for it.

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