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The Ukrainian War IV: "And von Moltke Laughed ..."

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53326
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:21 am

United Russian Federal Republic wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You can make all the silly allegories you want but it doesn't change anything. NATO was on the way out, it was seen as an archaic and unneeded thing by many people, Russia alone changed that perception and Russia alone ensured NATO will continue to be a thing for many more decades to come.

Ukraine was Pinocchio.

NATO was Geppetto.


Washington Resistance Army wrote:You can make all the silly allegories you want but it doesn't change anything.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24942
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:38 am

United Russian Federal Republic wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You can make all the silly allegories you want but it doesn't change anything. NATO was on the way out, it was seen as an archaic and unneeded thing by many people, Russia alone changed that perception and Russia alone ensured NATO will continue to be a thing for many more decades to come.

Ukraine was Pinocchio.

NATO was Geppetto.

Und here it is
The proof that tyranny infantilises.

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Picairn
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8737
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:40 am

United Russian Federal Republic wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yes, but Russia was not being threatened, so it's not a defensive action.

Russia would have been threatened by NATO even more than it was already, if Ukraine had joined, so this makes the SMO a defensive action.

Self-defence “for the win”!

Attack NATO then, what are you so afraid of?
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♔ The Empire of Picairn ♔
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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53326
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:42 am

Picairn wrote:
United Russian Federal Republic wrote:Russia would have been threatened by NATO even more than it was already, if Ukraine had joined, so this makes the SMO a defensive action.

Self-defence “for the win”!

Attack NATO then, what are you so afraid of?


It'd be mighty embarrassing for Poland and USEUCOM alone to destroy the Russian Army I think :lol:
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Northern Socialist Council Republics
Minister
 
Posts: 3095
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:50 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:It'd be mighty embarrassing for Poland and USEUCOM alone to destroy the Russian Army I think :lol:

"Second global superpower" ladies and gentlemen.

At this rate the European Union will be the second military superpower before the Russians get there.
Call me "Russ" if you're referring to me the out-of-character poster or "NSRS" if you're referring to me the in-character nation.
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Fifth Jellian Republic
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: Jan 05, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Fifth Jellian Republic » Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:51 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:It'd be mighty embarrassing for Poland and USEUCOM alone to destroy the Russian Army I think :lol:

"Second global superpower" ladies and gentlemen.

At this rate the European Union will be the second military superpower before the Russians get there.


Russia was comparable to Italy in terms of economy before the war.
It stopped being a superpower the moment the Soviet Union fell.
The latest Jellian Republic
The nations stats do not necessarily reflect my views, (I made a few mistakes)
“Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel”
I reserve the right not to reply to walls of text

I always try to have an open mind

My mistake was thinking that most people are reasonable and care about good faith debate. (Though it might just be reflective of nation states, where people come to argue.) Either way, this is not the place for me.
Goodbye nation states.

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Perikuresu
Minister
 
Posts: 2015
Founded: Jan 02, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Perikuresu » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:01 am

Picairn wrote:The famed Zaporizhzhia offensive claimed by the Russians currently doesn't exist. No videos or pictures to confirm, and one village was already under their control before being claimed as "taken". So far it's all baseless claims from the Russian propagandist accounts, and they are worth less than dirt.

I'm still waiting for the Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia Offensive, and the time when Ukraine linerates Melitopol, Berdyans'k, and Enerhodar.
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Picairn
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8737
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:01 am

The US signals support for the Netherlands' proposal to transfer F-16s to Ukraine. Big news indeed if some of them could be transferred in the future.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Albrenia wrote:With great power comes great mockability.

Proctopeo wrote:I'm completely right and you know it.

Moralityland wrote:big corporations allied with the communist elite
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.
♔ The Empire of Picairn ♔
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
Civility - Transparency - Consistency

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24942
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:03 am

Picairn wrote:The US signals support for the Netherlands' proposal to transfer F-16s to Ukraine. Big news indeed if some of them could be transferred in the future.

F-16 MLU's a massive step up from MiG-29's that Ukraine haven't had the money to upgrade from their 1980's standards so that's good.

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Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6593
Founded: May 02, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:03 am

The Holy Therns wrote:
United Russian Federal Republic wrote:Russia would have been threatened by NATO even more than it was already, if Ukraine had joined, so this makes the SMO a defensive action.

Self-defence “for the win”!


How would it have threatened Russia unless Russia intended to take Ukraine?

How would Mexico forming a military alliance with China and hosting Chinese nukes and ground troops be a threat to the US if they didn't intend to invade Mexico?
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.

Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”

Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"



#FreeNSGRojava
Z

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Fifth Jellian Republic
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: Jan 05, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Fifth Jellian Republic » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:04 am

Perikuresu wrote:
Picairn wrote:The famed Zaporizhzhia offensive claimed by the Russians currently doesn't exist. No videos or pictures to confirm, and one village was already under their control before being claimed as "taken". So far it's all baseless claims from the Russian propagandist accounts, and they are worth less than dirt.

I'm still waiting for the Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia Offensive, and the time when Ukraine linerates Melitopol, Berdyans'k, and Enerhodar.


I wonder if they are waiting for more armored vehicles before they start.
Or maybe the Russians have kindly donated enough where it’s simply the mud that is holding them back.
The latest Jellian Republic
The nations stats do not necessarily reflect my views, (I made a few mistakes)
“Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel”
I reserve the right not to reply to walls of text

I always try to have an open mind

My mistake was thinking that most people are reasonable and care about good faith debate. (Though it might just be reflective of nation states, where people come to argue.) Either way, this is not the place for me.
Goodbye nation states.

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53326
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:05 am

Orostan wrote:
The Holy Therns wrote:
How would it have threatened Russia unless Russia intended to take Ukraine?

How would Mexico forming a military alliance with China and hosting Chinese nukes and ground troops be a threat to the US if they didn't intend to invade Mexico?


Brother this stopped being a valid position to take in 1965. ICBMs exist, we don't need nukes in Ukraine to destroy Russia.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Glagoly
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 143
Founded: Aug 08, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Glagoly » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:05 am

Perikuresu wrote:
Picairn wrote:The famed Zaporizhzhia offensive claimed by the Russians currently doesn't exist. No videos or pictures to confirm, and one village was already under their control before being claimed as "taken". So far it's all baseless claims from the Russian propagandist accounts, and they are worth less than dirt.

I'm still waiting for the Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia Offensive, and the time when Ukraine linerates Melitopol, Berdyans'k, and Enerhodar.

The timing of the offensive will depend on the supply of weapons.

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Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6593
Founded: May 02, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:06 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Orostan wrote:How would Mexico forming a military alliance with China and hosting Chinese nukes and ground troops be a threat to the US if they didn't intend to invade Mexico?


Brother this stopped being a valid position to take in 1965. ICBMs exist, we don't need nukes in Ukraine to destroy Russia.

Yes you do. The closer a state's nukes are to another the more of an advantage it has in any nuclear war, not to mention the importance of Ukraine in a conventional war against Russia.

The Cuban missile crisis was entirely about how close American nukes were to the USSR and how close Soviet nukes were put to the USA. This matters enormously.
Last edited by Orostan on Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.

Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”

Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"



#FreeNSGRojava
Z

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24942
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:07 am

absolutely love it when certain esteemed individuals drag in "what if mexico allies with prc"
Like...
Why would the most capitalistic nation on Earth sabotage its own vaunted GDP growth curve like that? That makes about as much fucking sense as Imperial Japan mounting a fifty division invasion of California in 1942.

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Raskana
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 422
Founded: Mar 29, 2022
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Raskana » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:07 am

Glagoly wrote:
Perikuresu wrote:I'm still waiting for the Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia Offensive, and the time when Ukraine linerates Melitopol, Berdyans'k, and Enerhodar.

The timing of the offensive will depend on the supply of weapons.

My government WAS going to fund Leopard 2,s and deliver F-16,s, but that is off the wagon for now, so its just Patriots.

Its something, but still, Ukraine can really use those F-16,s, and we are replacing them anyhow.
Pray for Ukraine and Moldova.
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Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6593
Founded: May 02, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:08 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:absolutely love it when certain esteemed individuals drag in "what if mexico allies with prc"
Like...
Why would the most capitalistic nation on Earth sabotage its own vaunted GDP growth curve like that? That makes about as much fucking sense as Imperial Japan mounting a fifty division invasion of California in 1942.

It's a hypothetical made for the sake of an argument. There's nothing else to it.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.

Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”

Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"



#FreeNSGRojava
Z

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The Holy Therns
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30309
Founded: Jul 09, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Holy Therns » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:09 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Orostan wrote:How would Mexico forming a military alliance with China and hosting Chinese nukes and ground troops be a threat to the US if they didn't intend to invade Mexico?


Brother this stopped being a valid position to take in 1965. ICBMs exist, we don't need nukes in Ukraine to destroy Russia.


Did they?
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Glagoly
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 143
Founded: Aug 08, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Glagoly » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:09 am

Raskana wrote:
Glagoly wrote:The timing of the offensive will depend on the supply of weapons.

My government WAS going to fund Leopard 2,s and deliver F-16,s, but that is off the wagon for now, so its just Patriots.

Its something, but still, Ukraine can really use those F-16,s, and we are replacing them anyhow.

What block is on your fighters?

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Fifth Jellian Republic
Envoy
 
Posts: 284
Founded: Jan 05, 2023
Ex-Nation

Postby Fifth Jellian Republic » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:10 am

Orostan wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Brother this stopped being a valid position to take in 1965. ICBMs exist, we don't need nukes in Ukraine to destroy Russia.

Yes you do. The closer a state's nukes are to another the more of an advantage it has in any nuclear war, not to mention the importance of Ukraine in a conventional war against Russia.

The Cuban missile crisis was entirely about how close American nukes were to the USSR and how close Soviet nukes were put to the USA. This matters enormously.


They could already put nukes in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, turkey, or on a submarine, so attacking Ukraine for that is basically empty.
The latest Jellian Republic
The nations stats do not necessarily reflect my views, (I made a few mistakes)
“Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel”
I reserve the right not to reply to walls of text

I always try to have an open mind

My mistake was thinking that most people are reasonable and care about good faith debate. (Though it might just be reflective of nation states, where people come to argue.) Either way, this is not the place for me.
Goodbye nation states.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24942
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:10 am

Orostan wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:absolutely love it when certain esteemed individuals drag in "what if mexico allies with prc"
Like...
Why would the most capitalistic nation on Earth sabotage its own vaunted GDP growth curve like that? That makes about as much fucking sense as Imperial Japan mounting a fifty division invasion of California in 1942.

It's a hypothetical made for the sake of an argument. There's nothing else to it.

Your "hypothetical" needs to make fucking sense mate.

User avatar
United Russian Federal Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 524
Founded: Sep 28, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby United Russian Federal Republic » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:11 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Orostan wrote:It's a hypothetical made for the sake of an argument. There's nothing else to it.

Your "hypothetical" needs to make fucking sense mate.

No, you are being deliberately obtuse to avoid having to respond.
☦️ Z
Слава России | Slava Rossii
|||||

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Orostan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6593
Founded: May 02, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Orostan » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:11 am

Fifth Jellian Republic wrote:
Orostan wrote:Yes you do. The closer a state's nukes are to another the more of an advantage it has in any nuclear war, not to mention the importance of Ukraine in a conventional war against Russia.

The Cuban missile crisis was entirely about how close American nukes were to the USSR and how close Soviet nukes were put to the USA. This matters enormously.


They could already put nukes in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, turkey, or on a submarine, so attacking Ukraine for that is basically empty.

You admit that NATO is attempting to encircle Russia? Even if we disregard nuclear war for a moment Ukraine in NATO would be a massive advantage in a conventional war against Russia. It would be totally unacceptable for any Russian state.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Orostan wrote:It's a hypothetical made for the sake of an argument. There's nothing else to it.

Your "hypothetical" needs to make fucking sense mate.

You need to understand what a hypothetical is.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.

Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”

Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"



#FreeNSGRojava
Z

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53326
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:13 am

Orostan wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Brother this stopped being a valid position to take in 1965. ICBMs exist, we don't need nukes in Ukraine to destroy Russia.

Yes you do. The closer a state's nukes are to another the more of an advantage it has in any nuclear war, not to mention the importance of Ukraine in a conventional war against Russia.

The Cuban missile crisis was entirely about how close American nukes were to the USSR and how close Soviet nukes were put to the USA. This matters enormously.


The Cuban Missile Crisis happened precisely because the USSR did not have a large arsenal of ICBMs and had to try and find a way to ensure it could strike back at the US if needed. In the era of IRBMs that was perfectly sensible, but even fucking North Korea can nuke anywhere on the planet nowadays. We don't need anything in Ukraine, and even if we did we could just put them in the Baltics. It's a moot point.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24942
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:14 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Orostan wrote:Yes you do. The closer a state's nukes are to another the more of an advantage it has in any nuclear war, not to mention the importance of Ukraine in a conventional war against Russia.

The Cuban missile crisis was entirely about how close American nukes were to the USSR and how close Soviet nukes were put to the USA. This matters enormously.


The Cuban Missile Crisis happened precisely because the USSR did not have a large arsenal of ICBMs and had to try and find a way to ensure it could strike back at the US if needed. In the era of IRBMs that was perfectly sensible, but even fucking North Korea can nuke anywhere on the planet nowadays. We don't need anything in Ukraine, and even if we did we could just put them in the Baltics. It's a moot point.

"muh hypotheticals dont need to make fucking sense lal"

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