The Ukrainian War IV: "And von Moltke Laughed ..."

[Grenartia]

We know better than these victims of nationalist propaganda

Or... or... or... or... or...
Raping other nations for the past hundred years does not make you likable with the victims...

I've said it countless times before, and I'll say it again: the best way to understand Russia's relationship with its current and former colonies, and with the West, is to look at the case of the wifebeater who blames his neighbor for "breaking up a happy marriage" because the neighbor took the wife and kids into his home and let them sleep in the guest bedroom to be safe from said wifebeater.

[The Grand Collective]

No part of that has a singular thing to do with this discussion.


It was not necessary, as Russia was not a threat to NATO.

But Russia clearly is a threat to everyone not in NATO (as this invasion proves). Therefore, it is entirely justifiable for every state subject to threat from Moscow to join NATO. Therefore, Ukraine is blameless.

However, an important reason for the invasion was the destruction of the non-aligned status of Ukraine. They are on the defensive not because they wanted neutrality, but because for some reason they abandoned it, and at least 8 years ago.

[Necroghastia]

I care about international laws that prevent the killing of civilians, and similar laws. That is why I always condemn crimes.

Wagner are not scum.

[Washington Resistance Army]

But Russia clearly is a threat to everyone not in NATO (as this invasion proves). Therefore, it is entirely justifiable for every state subject to threat from Moscow to join NATO. Therefore, Ukraine is blameless.

However, an important reason for the invasion was the destruction of the non-aligned status of Ukraine. They are on the defensive not because they wanted neutrality, but because for some reason they abandoned it, and at least 8 years ago.

Yeah, the reason they abandoned it is pretty damn clear lol. Russia wasn't willing to respect their neutrality, they wanted a puppet state, not a neighbor. Hence why they decided to invade Crimea and the Donbas when Yanukovich was deposed instead of just trying to maintain good relations, which wouldn't have even been hard for Russia to do because the majority of Ukrainians still had a favorable view of Russia even after Maidan.

[Grenartia]

But Russia clearly is a threat to everyone not in NATO (as this invasion proves). Therefore, it is entirely justifiable for every state subject to threat from Moscow to join NATO. Therefore, Ukraine is blameless.

However, an important reason for the invasion was the destruction of the non-aligned status of Ukraine. They are on the defensive not because they wanted neutrality, but because for some reason they abandoned it, and at least 8 years ago.

Ukraine was justified in abandoning its "neutrality" (which, in actuality, was being the neocolonialist subject of Moscow), because it and its people have the inherent right to self-determination, and because they knew their "neutral" status offered them no actual protection from Russian aggression and interference. Again, Ukraine is blameless.

[Eastern Kansas]

But Russia clearly is a threat to everyone not in NATO (as this invasion proves). Therefore, it is entirely justifiable for every state subject to threat from Moscow to join NATO. Therefore, Ukraine is blameless.

However, an important reason for the invasion was the destruction of the non-aligned status of Ukraine. They are on the defensive not because they wanted neutrality, but because for some reason they abandoned it, and at least 8 years ago.

I wonder what thing Russia could have done in 2014 to cause that? A mystery it shall remain.

[Grenartia]

However, an important reason for the invasion was the destruction of the non-aligned status of Ukraine. They are on the defensive not because they wanted neutrality, but because for some reason they abandoned it, and at least 8 years ago.

I wonder what thing Russia could have done in 2014 to cause that? A mystery it shall remain.

Lost to the sands of time.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I really cannot bring this point up enough. Even after Russia (very stupidly) backed Yanukovich, the majority of Ukrainians still liked Russia. Russia's collapse on the international stage over the past 10 years is solely and completely their own fault. In another timeline they could have continued presented a very promising alternative to NATO and continued supporting the erosion of both it and the EU. NATO isn't the one that forced Russia into this situation, Putin did it himself because he wanted his own version of Desert Storm and wasn't happy with a slow erosion of the west's power and influence.

[Grenartia]

I really cannot bring this point up enough. Even after Russia (very stupidly) backed Yanukovich, the majority of Ukrainians still liked Russia. Russia's collapse on the international stage over the past 10 years is solely and completely their own fault. In another timeline they could have continued presented a very promising alternative to NATO and continued supporting the erosion of both it and the EU. NATO isn't the one that forced Russia into this situation, Putin did it himself because he wanted his own version of Desert Storm and wasn't happy with a slow erosion of the west's power and influence.

Putin is the greatest champion of NATO, the EU, and the US that we could ask for. He has singlehandedly reinvigorated all 3.

[The Grand Collective]

However, an important reason for the invasion was the destruction of the non-aligned status of Ukraine. They are on the defensive not because they wanted neutrality, but because for some reason they abandoned it, and at least 8 years ago.

I wonder what thing Russia could have done in 2014 to cause that? A mystery it shall remain.

Arent post-Soviet liberals are always pro-NATO, no matter what happens?

[United Russian Federal Republic]

It was not necessary, as Russia was not a threat to NATO.

Have you polled the Poles, the Latvians, the Lithuanians and the Estonians?

They are biased against us.

I care about international laws that prevent the killing of civilians, and similar laws. That is why I always condemn crimes.

Wagner are not scum.

An example: saying “the U.S. army is not scum” does not also mean that the person saying it condones the My Lai massacre or Abu Ghraib.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Have you polled the Poles, the Latvians, the Lithuanians and the Estonians?

They are biased against us.

I wonder what thing Russia could have done in 2014 to cause that? A mystery it shall remain.

Arent post-Soviet liberals are always pro-NATO, no matter what happens?

Golly fucking gee whillickers I fucking wonder why

[The Grand Collective]

We know better than these victims of nationalist propaganda

Or... or... or... or... or...
Raping other nations for the past hundred years does not make you likable with the victims...

1. Sounds like nationalism, since several Russias have changed in 100 years
2. Poles in the 20th century are not victims, but unsuccessful players

[Grenartia]

Have you polled the Poles, the Latvians, the Lithuanians and the Estonians?

They are biased against us.

I mean, after centuries of being raped by Russia, you legitimately cannot blame them.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Or... or... or... or... or...
Raping other nations for the past hundred years does not make you likable with the victims...

1. Sounds like nationalism, since several Russias have changed in 100 years
2. Poles in the 20th century are not victims, but unsuccessful players

We should probably get a psychologist in here to analyse how this mental blockage of yours got installed.

[Washington Resistance Army]

2. Poles in the 20th century are not victims, but unsuccessful players

This is your mind on Russian nationalism holy shit lol

[The Grand Collective]

Arent post-Soviet liberals are always pro-NATO, no matter what happens?

Golly fucking gee whillickers I fucking wonder why

Because NATO is the holy hill of holy democracy

[Eastern Kansas]

I wonder what thing Russia could have done in 2014 to cause that? A mystery it shall remain.

Arent post-Soviet liberals are always pro-NATO, no matter what happens?

Amazing what subjecting other cultures/nations to outright authoritarianism and denying them self determination can do to a nations PR.

[The Grand Collective]

2. Poles in the 20th century are not victims, but unsuccessful players

This is your mind on Russian nationalism holy shit lol

?
I'm not a Russian nationalist

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Arent post-Soviet liberals are always pro-NATO, no matter what happens?

Amazing what subjecting other cultures/nations to outright authoritarianism and denying them self determination can do to a nations PR.

Polish satirists didn't even beat around the bush even in the 80's.
("ZOMO arrives for action")

[Washington Resistance Army]

This is your mind on Russian nationalism holy shit lol

?
I'm not a Russian nationalist

You sure do parrot their talking points a lot for someone who claims not to be one.

[Eastern Kansas]

Golly fucking gee whillickers I fucking wonder why

Because NATO is the holy hill of holy democracy

Id say it has done alright as an organization in protecting democratic institutions around the world.

[Grenartia]

Or... or... or... or... or...
Raping other nations for the past hundred years does not make you likable with the victims...

1. Sounds like nationalism, since several Russias have changed in 100 years
2. Poles in the 20th century are not victims, but unsuccessful players

Being declared war on by a hostile foreign power, only to be saved by a miracle; being invaded by a different hostile foreign power 2 decades later (and being literally genocided), and then being successfully invaded by the first hostile foreign power simultaneously (under the guise of "liberation"), and being occupied by the latter for nearly 50 fucking years counts as being victims.

[Raskana]

Because NATO is the holy hill of holy democracy

Id say it has done alright as an organization in protecting democratic institutions around the world.

I can go to the nearest city and loudly proclaim our leaders are corrupt, without being arrested.

Seems to work for me.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Id say it has done alright as an organization in protecting democratic institutions around the world.

I can go to the nearest city and loudly proclaim our leaders are corrupt, without being arrested.

Seems to work for me.

Speaking of which.
Erdogan is completely up-in-arms, hitler-rant tier over the fact that anti-Turkish protests are going ahead in Sweden... despite his demands that these "terrorists" be shut down.