Police: Heroes or Villains?

[Ifreann]

Have you forgotten the point you're responding to already? Jesus, man, go and see a doctor.

I'm presuming this means you don't actually have an answer.

This means you should already know what I'm referring to by having read my posts, the posts to which you responded. It is very concerning that you have forgotten this in the space of a few short hours. Assuming you aren't just asking stupid questions to waste my time because you're allergic to making a real argument, you should really see a doctor about these problems with your memory.

[American Legionaries]

I'm presuming this means you don't actually have an answer.

This means you should already know what I'm referring to by having read my posts, the posts to which you responded. It is very concerning that you have forgotten this in the space of a few short hours. Assuming you aren't just asking stupid questions to waste my time because you're allergic to making a real argument, you should really see a doctor about these problems with your memory.

That's a lot of words for what amounts to "yes".

[Duvniask]

I'm presuming this means you don't actually have an answer.

This means you should already know what I'm referring to by having read my posts, the posts to which you responded. It is very concerning that you have forgotten this in the space of a few short hours. Assuming you aren't just asking stupid questions to waste my time because you're allergic to making a real argument, you should really see a doctor about these problems with your memory.

You mean to tell me that Tel is posting snark instead of saying anything substantive? Color me surprised. Almost like this hasn't been the case for years at this point.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

first you have to explain whether you mean police (the concept), the police (the institution), or the police (the group).

I don't even know the differences between these shits.
For me the police are a "group" maintained by the government.

the concept of the police is the idea of police.
the institution of the police is the actual organization that employs police.
the group of the police is the collective of policemen.

if you’re talking about the concept, the question is about whether the idea of police in abstract form is good or bad.
if you’re talking about the institution, the question is about whether the police force is good in practice.
if you’re talking about the group, the question is about whether the actual policemen are good or bad.

[Farnhamia]

Cops are all the bullies who got all Cs on their report cards and peaked in high-school. If they weren't they wouldn't be cops.

You are stupid cops like soldiers like teachers do it for not much amount of money because they are called to it and your bully’s without them what would stop me and my friends from getting guns and taking over a block soldiers and cops and first responder out their life’s on the line for ungrateful little pieces of crap like you I truly doubt you could ever be a cop because you live in your moms basement

*** Warned for flaming ***

The Rules are for everyone. Read them, follow them.

---

Cops are all the bullies who got all Cs on their report cards and peaked in high-school. If they weren't they wouldn't be cops.

*** Warned for trolling ***

[American Legionaries]

This means you should already know what I'm referring to by having read my posts, the posts to which you responded. It is very concerning that you have forgotten this in the space of a few short hours. Assuming you aren't just asking stupid questions to waste my time because you're allergic to making a real argument, you should really see a doctor about these problems with your memory.

You mean to tell me that Tel is posting snark instead of saying anything substantive? Color me surprised. Almost like this hasn't been the case for years at this point.

Ah, good ol' NSG. When asking for someone to provide evidence to support their dubious claim is considered 'snark'.

[Duvniask]

You mean to tell me that Tel is posting snark instead of saying anything substantive? Color me surprised. Almost like this hasn't been the case for years at this point.

Ah, good ol' NSG. When asking for someone to provide evidence to support their dubious claim is considered 'snark'.

"Good ol' NSG" is asking about something that was already answered for you in the post you yourself had replied to earlier and then self-righteously doubling down on your own laziness.

[Big Jim P]

The citizens should be doing this themselves with the police being the cleanup crew.

Aren't those called lynch mobs?

Not if they are actively defending themselves during the offense.

[Big Jim P]

If you get rid off the cops then what’s stopping people from doing whatever they want I go could to your home and take whatever I want people will be going insane it would be worse than the purge people will take your car,your homes,your money,your family,your life whatever the hell they want and no one will stop them expect for other factions all the crazies willl come out from politics and religious nuts every manner of person would be doing whatever they want there would be dollar falls apart so fast it would just end bad they are a nesscary thing no matter what

They would be shot for their attempts.

[Informed Consent]

The citizens should be doing this themselves with the police being the cleanup crew.

Aren't those called lynch mobs?

In the presence of constituted authority, yes.
In the absence, or willful dereliction of it they are vigilantes.

[Duvniask]

True, given I created an overly simple and low-quality definition. That’s why I added the Oxford Languages definition.



Besides their ability to use violence, I don’t think the police as a system are broken. Most police systems are, allowing corruption and unnecessary violence among other things, but to apply that to the police as a whole is interesting, and in my opinion, is incorrect. A large nation will need at least some form of law enforcement to punish criminals and protect civilians, whether that be a paid police force, a volunteer force, or something different.

The citizens should be doing this themselves with the police being the cleanup crew.

Take a good look at Latin America to get a feel for how widespread vigilantism and proliferation of private security massively contributes to making life more shit.

[Terrorist Group]

True, given I created an overly simple and low-quality definition. That’s why I added the Oxford Languages definition.



Besides their ability to use violence, I don’t think the police as a system are broken. Most police systems are, allowing corruption and unnecessary violence among other things, but to apply that to the police as a whole is interesting, and in my opinion, is incorrect. A large nation will need at least some form of law enforcement to punish criminals and protect civilians, whether that be a paid police force, a volunteer force, or something different.

The citizens should be doing this themselves with the police being the cleanup crew.

Then you risk a form of vigilantism far worse than our current police system. The police have to be regulated, and allowing citizens to protect their own people is like allowing the police to go unregulated; it solves nothing and makes everything worse. What do you think will prevent citizens from executing already-restricted criminals?

[Ifreann]

Aren't those called lynch mobs?

Not if they are actively defending themselves during the offense.

Punishing criminals does seem like it would necessarily have to be a separate thing from stopping their crime.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

I don't even know the differences between these shits.
For me the police are a "group" maintained by the government.

the concept of the police is the idea of police.
the institution of the police is the actual organization that employs police.
the group of the police is the collective of policemen.

if you’re talking about the concept, the question is about whether the idea of police in abstract form is good or bad.
if you’re talking about the institution, the question is about whether the police force is good in practice.
if you’re talking about the group, the question is about whether the actual policemen are good or bad.

I think what I wrote fits more with my text is the "group"

[Informed Consent]

Not if they are actively defending themselves during the offense.

Punishing criminals does seem like it would necessarily have to be a separate thing from stopping their crime.

Exactly.
Law traditionally allows for the defense against crime, but not preemptive strikes.

I can detain you for law enforcement to pick up after assaulting my person or property, but I cannot summarily execute you, or lock you away in the basement for the gimp and I to have our way with.

That is a distinction missed when most people speak of vigilantes.
Historically, people living in wilder frontier settings often found themselves living in lawless places regardless of what a king or congress a thousand miles away thought about it, and communities policed themselves until civilization caught up with them.
They were vigilantes.

Assholes who chase down people who "look suspicious" and shoot them when the kid in a hoodie hands their ass to them for being a moron, are not vigilantes strictly speaking.
They are just another species of idiot that deserves whatever they get from their victims and the judiciary like any other criminal.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

the concept of the police is the idea of police.
the institution of the police is the actual organization that employs police.
the group of the police is the collective of policemen.

if you’re talking about the concept, the question is about whether the idea of police in abstract form is good or bad.
if you’re talking about the institution, the question is about whether the police force is good in practice.
if you’re talking about the group, the question is about whether the actual policemen are good or bad.

I think what I wrote fits more with my text is the "group"

well, that depends. there are good policemen and bad policemen. the problem is really with the institution, which doesn't vet and train these people well enough.

[Informed Consent]

well, that depends. there are good policemen and bad policemen. the problem is really with the institution, which doesn't vet and train these people well enough.

Inherently flawed people screening other inherently flawed people for flaws is an inherently flawed system, but since there is no such thing as flawless people, we do our best.
Like an asymptote, the level of scrutiny employed in security sensitive occupations will at some point curve away from your ideal in an overzealous attempt to touch the line.
Especially when your goals are more political than objective, you end up in a bureaucratic culture war where all agents are generally incompetent, and then it just boils down to what particular deficiencies are socially acceptable to whatever brand of ideologue is in charge that day.

[HISPIDA]

NWA got it right

[Terminus Station]

You are stupid cops like soldiers like teachers do it for not much amount of money because they are called to it and your bully’s without them what would stop me and my friends from getting guns and taking over a block soldiers and cops and first responder out their life’s on the line for ungrateful little pieces of crap like you I truly doubt you could ever be a cop because you live in your moms basement

*** Warned for flaming ***

The Rules are for everyone. Read them, follow them.

---

Cops are all the bullies who got all Cs on their report cards and peaked in high-school. If they weren't they wouldn't be cops.

*** Warned for trolling ***

My criticism of the American police force is valid and your warning is unfounded.

[Big Jim P]

Not if they are actively defending themselves during the offense.

Punishing criminals does seem like it would necessarily have to be a separate thing from stopping their crime.

Point noted.

[Page]

That depends entirely on the individual officer(s).

^This.

The world isn't all black and white, and the cops are not some kind of hivemind. They are people, and people can be both good and bad.

The work though is overwhelmingly bad. There are cops who are good people off the clock but they can't really be good while on the clock, not unless they are constantly breaking the rules and subverting their superiors.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

^This.

The world isn't all black and white, and the cops are not some kind of hivemind. They are people, and people can be both good and bad.

The work though is overwhelmingly bad. There are cops who are good people off the clock but they can't really be good while on the clock, not unless they are constantly breaking the rules and subverting their superiors.

I believe it. But I think there are some that are really bad. But honestly, about corruption I think it depends on the character of the police officer.
(I think)

[Zilam]

I think its important to remember that even though we think of Law Enforcement as one giant system, it isn't. So we can't judge the entirety of the law enforcement by the actions of individuals in varying places. I live in Northern Virginia, and the police *seem* to be rather professional, and I can respect that. But I know that is due to how the local departments hire and train. On the other hand, other departments hire violent, low IQ cowards, and the results are not great at all. I'd rather judge on either jurisdiction or, even better, the individual.

[Chan Island]

Necessary evil, ranging from barely acceptable to an active blight on society depending on where you live. A world where they aren't essential would be best, but sadly we don't live in that world.

[Informed Consent]

Necessary evil, ranging from barely acceptable to an active blight on society depending on where you live. A world where they aren't essential would be best, but sadly we don't live in that world.

Or ever will, and ironically the human condition as it is now will not markedly improve until we accept that humanity needs only to be "policed", and not ruled.