Police: Heroes or Villains?

[Fourth Jellian Republic]

But it’s a fact that not everybody can.
In a situation like that, the strong would have power over the weak.

It would create a “might makes right” environment.

If some gangbanger is starting to pop off and I have my pistol on me, and I know I can take the little fuck out, I am doing it.

See, that’s the problem.

What if it’s not one, but a hundred?
Dictators naturally grow in an environment like that.
Soon you will have a king.

Without a rule of law, there are no rights. What if you decide to break all their bones instead of punishing them fairly.
The entire point is that power comes from the people.

With no system, power comes from the strong.

[Saiwania]

Cops take a roadrager and puts them in a car, on the train tracks. Only gets paid leave.

She got permanent injuries.

This is the dumbest cop of all time. US cops need massive reform, now.

I mean. Most countries require a minimum 2 year college degree for police and the US requires *checks notes* 40-60 hours of training at most?

Well, the criminals that police go up against aren't going to have any college requirements. Won't that by default, leave the police at a manpower disadvantage? That would make attrition favor criminals over police. This isn't a job that should require a ton of education or licensing if all that is needed is a grunt to respond to security threats or incidents.

The cop who parked on train tracks should be facing prison or be fired at minimum however. It'd seem the passenger has a fool proof case against the police. She just needs strong enough legal representation if there aren't any pro bono lawyers. This is probably an easy case to win. She should get all of her medical bills paid which I'm sure is a lot, but an even greater settlement might be extracted which should benefit any lawyers winning such a case as well, on her behalf.

[Ngo]

If some gangbanger is starting to pop off and I have my pistol on me, and I know I can take the little fuck out, I am doing it.

See, that’s the problem.

What if it’s not one, but a hundred?
Dictators naturally grow in an environment like that.
Soon you will have a king.

Without a rule of law, there are no rights. What if you decide to break all their bones instead of punishing them fairly.
The entire point is that power comes from the people.

With no system, power comes from the strong.

Right is might, always has been. I blame the Romans. The law has always consisted of a firm rod breaking the back of the subjected and lacerating their flesh. Vae victus, nerds

PRAISE ZOLTAN THE DEFILER

[Ifreann]

The institutions that want to keep them in power have significantly more lobbying power than we do.

Or maybe (and this is a crazy thought) more CIVILIANS want cops patrolling the streets and think the anti-cop crowd are cheerleaders for criminals.

Cops are civilians.

[Forever Indomitable]

Police are essential

Police are backbone of any society

Police are NOT all bad like anything in the world...

This is nothing but a lie. The premise that we "need" police is fundamentally wrong based on 2 reasons:

•There is no such thing as "justice". "Justice" is just feelings. When something bad happens to people, they instinctively want revenge and a sense of closure, but those are just personal issues. We don't need to spend massive amounts of money just to satisfy peoples' feelings. Loss and conflict are a part of life. People should be adults and learn to deal with such things instead of feeling entitled for society to white knight for them.

•Punishment is fundamentally stupid and everyone should not be protected. I don't care if some guy kills another guy over personal beef. I don't care if some bank gets robbed; that's what insurance is for. Most of the time, it's not mine or anyone else's business, unless you're directly involved. People die and things are lost. Get a grip. It wastes so much time and money to put people through the justice system and you literally lose more money over your lifetime paying to prosecute robbery than if you get robbed yourself, which is exactly what the government does to you. There's all these catalytic converters being stolen, for example, but in the collective sense, that's not even a bad thing. It reduces pollution and hopefully encourages people to get off their assses and IDK, invest in a bicycle and get some exercise?

The desire for law enforcement is cowardly and childish. It's born of dependence, fear and only serves to make everyone involved weaker.

[Forever Indomitable]

I mean. Most countries require a minimum 2 year college degree for police and the US requires *checks notes* 40-60 hours of training at most?

Well, the criminals that police go up against aren't going to have any college requirements. Won't that by default, leave the police at a manpower disadvantage?

Not even remotely, because there has always been a (somewhat wrongful) selection process against aggression. Take for example:

If some gangbanger is starting to pop off and I have my pistol on me, and I know I can take the little fuck out, I am doing it.

Over time, we naturally select against the most disruptive members of our species and we have no shortage of people wanting to play hero to stroke their own ego, like this guy. The near extinction of "criminality" in Western/Northern Europeans demonstrates this, as it does the Japanese. BTW, it's not a good thing for genetic health. We're only becoming weaker and weaker. We shouldn't be applying tribal dynamics to the social level.

[The Alma Mater]

Cops take a roadrager and puts them in a car, on the train tracks. Only gets paid leave.

She got permanent injuries.

This is the dumbest cop of all time. US cops need massive reform, now.

The actual bodycam footage was posted a few pages back. It is indeed insane... the whole concept of the cops not being sued for attempted manslaughter or even attempted murder seems equally insane.

Were I to tie up someone and put them on a traintrack I would be in jail.

[The V O I D]

“To Serve and Protect” is a lie, unless you're talking about “serving” and “protecting” one another from the consequences of any criminal actions they take, and then they put immense pressure on governments to hold onto power/receive qualified immunity or else they'll resign en masse. That ain't the actions of some courageous upholders of justice and order, that's the actions of power-hungry sociopathic cowards.

That's why defunding the police is a good idea. It'll weed out the power-hungry and the cowards, it'll free up funding for civil services needed to ensure something like someone getting murdered when they're having a mental health crisis or whatever won't happen anymore, and it'll force the police to voluntarily demilitarize / specialize forces that will be able to be forced to only deploy when there is absolute certainty of an active shooter situation or something.

We should also remove qualified immunity. All cops and precincts ought to be fully accountable to the people, whether for lawsuits or criminal prosecution. If you don't wanna be arrested for being a criminal wearing a cop costume, don't do crimes while trying to be a cop.

[Ifreann]

Cops take a roadrager and puts them in a car, on the train tracks. Only gets paid leave.

She got permanent injuries.

This is the dumbest cop of all time. US cops need massive reform, now.

The actual bodycam footage was posted a few pages back. It is indeed insane... the whole concept of the cops not being sued for attempted manslaughter or even attempted murder seems equally insane.

Were I to tie up someone and put them on a traintrack I would be in jail.

I think if you did that you would be in a cartoon.

[Ayytaly]

Or maybe (and this is a crazy thought) more CIVILIANS want cops patrolling the streets and think the anti-cop crowd are cheerleaders for criminals.

Cops are civilians.

When off-duty yes.

[Ifreann]

Cops are civilians.

When off-duty yes.

All the time, unless they quit the force and join the military. In which case they aren't cops.

[The Alma Mater]

The actual bodycam footage was posted a few pages back. It is indeed insane... the whole concept of the cops not being sued for attempted manslaughter or even attempted murder seems equally insane.

Were I to tie up someone and put them on a traintrack I would be in jail.

I think if you did that you would be in a cartoon.

Or a cop apparantly.

[Ayytaly]

When off-duty yes.

All the time, unless they quit the force and join the military. In which case they aren't cops.

Would you rather have the military replace LEOs?

[Ifreann]

All the time, unless they quit the force and join the military. In which case they aren't cops.

Would you rather have the military replace LEOs?

I'm telling you that cops are civilians. The police are a civilian organisation. Asking about the military replacing law enforcement seems to be a non sequitur.

[Shazbotdom]

If some gangbanger is starting to pop off and I have my pistol on me, and I know I can take the little fuck out, I am doing it.

See, that’s the problem.

What if it’s not one, but a hundred?
Dictators naturally grow in an environment like that.
Soon you will have a king.

Without a rule of law, there are no rights. What if you decide to break all their bones instead of punishing them fairly.
The entire point is that power comes from the people.

With no system, power comes from the strong.

So were supposed to just wait for the police, who may or may not help us? You do know that Constitutionally they are not obligated to help citizens? SCOTUS ruled on this already, and we see it first hand in Uvalde.

And with the lack of proper training they are getting (just look at all the 1A Audit Video's where they treat public photography like it's a crime), I honetly don't TRUST them to protect the public.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

one of the first fucking things i learned was to never park on train tracks. holy shit.

She should be in jail, TBH.

She should, but she just gets paid time off.

The cop system is fucked, and it needs a top to bottom rebulding.

The fact that the group of cops had no problem parking a fucking car on the tracks is just crazy.

Yet there still will be boot lickers out on the internet saying that, somehow, the road rager was responable for being hit by a train, not the cops who locked her in a car with handcuffs on and parked on the train tracks.

[El Lazaro]

Cops take a roadrager and puts them in a car, on the train tracks. Only gets paid leave.

She got permanent injuries.

This is the dumbest cop of all time. US cops need massive reform, now.

I mean. Most countries require a minimum 2 year college degree for police and the US requires *checks notes* 40-60 hours of training at most?

Taking drivers and hunter ed courses would unironically make you overqualified for a cop. Or, y’know, generally not trying to kill people.

[Ayytaly]

See, that’s the problem.

What if it’s not one, but a hundred?
Dictators naturally grow in an environment like that.
Soon you will have a king.

Without a rule of law, there are no rights. What if you decide to break all their bones instead of punishing them fairly.
The entire point is that power comes from the people.

With no system, power comes from the strong.

So were supposed to just wait for the police, who may or may not help us? You do know that Constitutionally they are not obligated to help citizens? SCOTUS ruled on this already, and we see it first hand in Uvalde.

And with the lack of proper training they are getting (just look at all the 1A Audit Video's where they treat public photography like it's a crime), I honetly don't TRUST them to protect the public.

It's amazing what kinds of mental gymnastics one goes through to advocate against gun ownership. Having a gun (legally) doesn't make one a criminal. Using one for crimes is.

[Fourth Jellian Republic]

See, that’s the problem.

What if it’s not one, but a hundred?
Dictators naturally grow in an environment like that.
Soon you will have a king.

Without a rule of law, there are no rights. What if you decide to break all their bones instead of punishing them fairly.
The entire point is that power comes from the people.

With no system, power comes from the strong.

Right is might, always has been. I blame the Romans. The law has always consisted of a firm rod breaking the back of the subjected and lacerating their flesh. Vae victus, nerds

PRAISE ZOLTAN THE DEFILER

Where that might comes from is what matters. With police, it comes from rule of law. And rule of law comes from democracy.
I don’t know about you, but I would rather not live under some despot.

See, that’s the problem.

What if it’s not one, but a hundred?
Dictators naturally grow in an environment like that.
Soon you will have a king.

Without a rule of law, there are no rights. What if you decide to break all their bones instead of punishing them fairly.
The entire point is that power comes from the people.

With no system, power comes from the strong.

So were supposed to just wait for the police, who may or may not help us? You do know that Constitutionally they are not obligated to help citizens? SCOTUS ruled on this already, and we see it first hand in Uvalde.

And with the lack of proper training they are getting (just look at all the 1A Audit Video's where they treat public photography like it's a crime), I honetly don't TRUST them to protect the public.

No,
The police do have major issues, and I’m not defending them.
But just because you don’t need them doesn’t mean nobody else does.

Why would you not be able to defend yourself with police existing?
It’s not either or…

[American Legionaries]

Right is might, always has been. I blame the Romans. The law has always consisted of a firm rod breaking the back of the subjected and lacerating their flesh. Vae victus, nerds

PRAISE ZOLTAN THE DEFILER

Where that might comes from is what matters. With police, it comes from rule of law. And rule of law comes from democracy.
I don’t know about you, but I would rather not live under some despot.

What's the functional difference? If the police shoot me because I have violated the laws passed by a clucking hencoop of attorneys thousands of miles away, am I less dead than if the police shoot me because I violated the edict of some despot who dresses in too many pseudo-military medals?

[Fourth Jellian Republic]

Where that might comes from is what matters. With police, it comes from rule of law. And rule of law comes from democracy.
I don’t know about you, but I would rather not live under some despot.

What's the functional difference? If the police shoot me because I have violated the laws passed by a clucking hencoop of attorneys thousands of miles away, am I less dead than if the police shoot me because I violated the edict of some despot who dresses in too many pseudo-military medals?

With police at their worst, there is no difference.
But that’s the exception, not the rule.

[American Legionaries]

What's the functional difference? If the police shoot me because I have violated the laws passed by a clucking hencoop of attorneys thousands of miles away, am I less dead than if the police shoot me because I violated the edict of some despot who dresses in too many pseudo-military medals?

With police at their worst, there is no difference.
But that’s the exception, not the rule.

There's no difference whatsoever. Bullets are bullets, regardless of the government system the shooter participates in.

[Fourth Jellian Republic]

With police at their worst, there is no difference.
But that’s the exception, not the rule.

There's no difference whatsoever. Bullets are bullets, regardless of the government system the shooter participates in.

We are talking about no police vs police.
And I am saying that no police is worse. For better or for (much) worse, the police “mostly” provide lawfulness and safety.
It’s hardly good, but the alternative is a power vacuum.

If you want to look at modern despots, look at some of the authoritarian regimes today. There is a wide selection to pick from.

The point is to make things better, I hope, not worse.

[American Legionaries]

There's no difference whatsoever. Bullets are bullets, regardless of the government system the shooter participates in.

We are talking about no police vs police.
And I am saying that no police is worse. For better or for (much) worse, the police “mostly” provide lawfulness and safety.
It’s hardly good, but the alternative is a power vacuum.

If you want to look at modern despots, look at some of the authoritarian regimes today. There is a wide selection to pick from.

The point is to make things better, I hope, not worse.

Lawfulness is the opposite of safety. Meaning that the police cannot possibly provide lawfulness, and safety at the same time. And, given that what they provide is lawfulness, at the expense of safety, I see the vacuum you've described as a superior alternative to the police force.

[Fourth Jellian Republic]

We are talking about no police vs police.
And I am saying that no police is worse. For better or for (much) worse, the police “mostly” provide lawfulness and safety.
It’s hardly good, but the alternative is a power vacuum.

If you want to look at modern despots, look at some of the authoritarian regimes today. There is a wide selection to pick from.

The point is to make things better, I hope, not worse.

Lawfulness is the opposite of safety. Meaning that the police cannot possibly provide lawfulness, and safety at the same time. And, given that what they provide is lawfulness, at the expense of safety, I see the vacuum you've described as a superior alternative to the police force.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

I don’t see how lawfulness is the opposite of safety. If the law is to keep the peace, for instance, that on paper sounds quite safe.

When you mean lawfulness at the expense of safety, i assume you mean police brutalizing people to comply with some backwards “law”
But that’s the forest from the trees.

I’m talking about police as a concept generally. Of course the police as they are now is a horrible system.
But if you think a bad police officer killing somebody every other Tuesday is bad. You would be in a rude awakening if you let the strong make little dictatorships. Imagine torture, executions, indiscriminate murder.

I’m not trying to say “accept this bad situation, it could be worse”, I’m trying to say “this is the wrong way, there is a better way”.

Maybe if you massively reform the police, and split up their duties, it can be a better system.
A system that Auctally serves and protects the people.