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Heroes of Capitalism: Ultimate NS Battle

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who would win? Why?

1. The billionaire team will win and by a large margin because they have prior business experience/are self-selected by meritocratic capitalism and so are more resourceful, intelligent, hard-working, outgoing, street smart etc
9
21%
2. The billionaire team will win but not by that much. It will be closer than people think.
6
14%
3. The NS team will win by a large margin because capitalism doesn’t work in selecting the people who in fact have the greatest chance to be productive. Also, the NS team has advantages (explain)
4
9%
4. The NS team will win but by a close margin.
5
12%
5. It’s a complete 50-50. Everyone is more equal in reality. Capitalism is just luck/this situation doesn’t fairly test salesmanship. NSG has a chance to win vs the top 10 billionaires.
19
44%
 
Total votes : 43

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Infected Mushroom
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Heroes of Capitalism: Ultimate NS Battle

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:23 pm

Please consider the following hypothetical:

One deity asked another “How is capitalism fair? Why are some people allowed to have billions of dollars (that they don’t even need) while others who work harder can’t afford houses?”

“… It’s to promote success, innovation, progress. In truth, the rich work super hard in ways you can’t imagine and they are unbelievably persistent while also working smart. The rich deserve to be rich. If you’re not rich, you can only blame yourself.”

“Really?”

“Really.”

The two deities don’t agree so with the help of other supernatural entities, they devise a game involving real mortals to try and prove their respective worldviews.




A small world in an alternate dimension is created for the game. It is populated by ten medieval teched towns, there’s a total population of 100,000 under the reign of a singular queen. They speak modern English.

Two teams will play against each other. They comprise of individuals teleported in from this world.

The winning team goes back to the real world, each 1 billion dollars richer (legally and state-recognized), the losing team is stuck in the medieval world forever.

One team consists of the worlds top 10 billionaires (people the default system reveres and considers unassailable “successes” to the point where life goes on while it’s okay and right that they have billions of dollars):

Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet etc…

The other team is comprised of NSG posters. All of NSG will meet before the game begins and through whatever mechanism they deem fit, choose 10 individuals to form the team that will play against the billionaires. If the NS team cannot work it out (democratically or otherwise), then the supernatural entities will choose 10 people randomly to form the team. If the NS team ends up running, the players on the team are each 1 billion dollars richer while every other NS poster is 5 million dollars richer.

As for the game itself, it’s very simple.

Both teams of 10 are teleported to opposite sides of the medieval world in two different towns where they legally own a large house with beds, a jug of magically regenerating water (for your own use), furniture, basic tools, and some wooden carts and boxes for making sales.

The towns buys and sells primitive goods using a gold coin system.

Every individual in the game starts with a small device that can magically generate 100 bananas every day (so each team of 10 can make 1000 bananas if they want daily).

The people in the medieval world legally recognize your existence and your right to the house but… they have never seen a banana before. They don’t need it, they don’t know that they should want to try it, it might terrify them.

The competition is to see over a period of three months, which team of 10 (the NSG team or the billionaire team) can sell the bananas for maximum coin profit. Only money made from the sale of bananas counts.

You need to set up a business enterprise, you need to talk to the town, you can try and hire people, you can come up with advertising strategies, the whole capitalist game. You set the prices (the only competition being the other team who supplied the exact same thing). You need to pay for all expenditures (unless you’re eating your own bananas for food). All characters in the scenario are disease-proof.

The sale of the bananas is viewed as legal and the authorities won’t interfere with the sale of the bananas or execute/imprison anyone for the sales.

Who will probably make the most $$$ from the bananas?

Please predict and justify using your understanding of human nature, capitalism, sales dynamics etc. Your predictions:

1. The billionaire team will win and by a large margin because they have prior business experience/are self-selected by meritocratic capitalism and so are more resourceful, intelligent, hard-working, outgoing, street smart etc
2. The billionaire team will win but not by that much. It will be closer than people think.
3. The NS team will win by a large margin because capitalism doesn’t work in selecting the people who in fact have the greatest chance to be productive. Also, the NS team has advantages (explain)
4. The NS team will win but by a close margin.
5. It’s a complete 50-50. Everyone is more equal in reality. Capitalism is just luck/this situation doesn’t fairly test salesmanship. NSG has a chance to win vs the top 10 billionaires.


I’m going with option 5. The NS team has a chance though I wouldn’t necessarily bank on them. We could pick 10 business savyy people from this group and have a shot. Three months is going to involve luck and if we’re motivated, why not? In general, capitalism is not a great system for selecting/rewarding who actually has the potential to contribute the most. Given a “blank slate,” many of the structural advantages given to people like Gates and Zuckerberg would mean less, equalizing the playing field more.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:24 pm

This one is a little convoluted so I might need to edit the OP from time to time to clarify/modify the rules in keeping with the intended focus. Please bear with me.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:36 am

The billionaires win but purely because I don’t think the average NSG poster is competent enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, and there is no conceivable universe where NSG agrees on who are the select 10 with enough brains to possibly pull this off.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:56 am

Chan Island wrote:The billionaires win but purely because I don’t think the average NSG poster is competent enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, and there is no conceivable universe where NSG agrees on who are the select 10 with enough brains to possibly pull this off.


That was self deprecating.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:58 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Chan Island wrote:The billionaires win but purely because I don’t think the average NSG poster is competent enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, and there is no conceivable universe where NSG agrees on who are the select 10 with enough brains to possibly pull this off.


That was self deprecating.


I know.

But am I wrong?
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:00 am

Chan Island wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
That was self deprecating.


I know.

But am I wrong?


Nope. Part of the road to enlightenment is understanding you are a moron. Someday you will catch up to me :p
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:26 am

Chan Island wrote:The billionaires win but purely because I don’t think the average NSG poster is competent enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, and there is no conceivable universe where NSG agrees on who are the select 10 with enough brains to possibly pull this off.

This is "the whole capitalist game," no? We don't need brains. We just need to, eh... eliminate the competition.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:26 am

The billionaires win. As the teams pay their own expenditures, they'll just keep throwing money at the banana project to crush the NSG's small enterprise, which is generally how many billionaires become billionaires anyway (not via any special smarts -- just look at some billionaires... *cough* Trump) but through spending power, and good connections.

So, a conglomerate of ten billionaires...

Yeah, Team NSG is screwed by that from the get-go.

And at this time of year, knowing our luck, we'll end up with a bunch of summer-posters playing for the NSG team so, there's that.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Emotional Support Crocodile » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:54 am

The basics of running a small business aren't exactly a secret known only to billionaires, so I don't think the billionaires have an advantage there.

I doubt that the billionaires would be any smarter than people we could pick from NSG.

I do think that NSG could put together a team with a much better knowledge of the Mediaeval world than the billionaires, and knowing your market is a distinct advantage in running a business. We could probably get our rivals burned at the stake in short order.

So I chose 4, NSG win by a small advantage.
Last edited by Emotional Support Crocodile on Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:58 am

The NSGers should sell bananas to the billionaires, who will more than likely have absolutely no idea whatsoever about how to pass those bananas on to the villagers (NSGers will not buy back the bananas they have sold for a loss, the billionaires will not want to hand Team NSG an advantage by letting them buy the bananas back at a profit, and it wouldn't make sense for the billionaires to sell the bananas back to us while breaking even). ezpz win
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Image

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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:34 am

Everyone dies on gangrene/plague or such.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:47 am

Okay so I’ve edited to remove the disease factor. It’s not because I want to change the rules (I don’t like to) but because the intended purpose of the hypothetical was to test:

“Capitalism’s selection of the top 10 best businessmen” vs “NSG’s selection of top 10 from their own…” (who would win?)

And related to that, does capitalism work. What conclusions can we (if any) draw?



Having a diseases kill most/all/some of the people on both teams (or alternatively the villagers) would in my view, ruin the purpose of the setup.

I’d also like to clarify that it was intended that the billionaires’ existing NT/money/wealth wouldn’t be used because the medieval world would use its own currency while not recognizing the dollar or any monetary unit in our existing system. Again, this is to further the above design pitting the two selection systems.

I’m interested in how the billionaires stack intellectually/street-smart wise/business-wise when “playing fair” vs what NS can churn out.

If the billionaires would in fact lose, wouldn’t this lead to a questioning of the value of capitalist allocation?

In its purest form, the accumulation of the billions is somehow justified by capitalism because of some assertion that they deserve the wealth. Does this hold?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:17 am

Chan Island wrote:The billionaires win but purely because I don’t think the average NSG poster is competent enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, and there is no conceivable universe where NSG agrees on who are the select 10 with enough brains to possibly pull this off.

Nailed it on the first response.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:20 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Chan Island wrote:The billionaires win but purely because I don’t think the average NSG poster is competent enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, and there is no conceivable universe where NSG agrees on who are the select 10 with enough brains to possibly pull this off.

Nailed it on the first response.


Are there no extremely business-savvy people on this forum?

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:22 pm

Which billionaire do you think will act as leader on their team? Who will contribute the most?

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:28 pm

im declaring myself the leader of the nsg team
Z

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:32 pm

Free Algerstonia wrote:im declaring myself the leader of the nsg team


Oh? You have business experience?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Free Algerstonia
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Postby Free Algerstonia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:37 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Free Algerstonia wrote:im declaring myself the leader of the nsg team


Oh? You have business experience?

no, but i have always dreamed of being a charismatic strongman and this is my opportunity, i want everybody to immediately accept my rule or i will start taking away bonuses
Z

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Postby Mutualist Chaos » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:41 pm

1. Capitalism and heroism are entirely unrelated concepts. You can't be a "hero of capitalism."

2. The entire premise is absurd. Billionaires don't become billionaires by building businesses, they become billionaires by various combinations of being the children of multi-millionaires, conning investors, lottery-grade luck and good fortune in the stock market, and literal theft (see: Gates, Bill). Hiring competent people isn't a skill, competent people go where the money is and if you start with money, you attract competent people and they make you more money. Therefore...

3. This mystical fetishization of the moneymaking skills of the oligarchs who run our planet is beyond asinine. You've gotta be kidding me with this shit. Is this a parody of Ayn Rand's YouTube fan club or something?
Last edited by Mutualist Chaos on Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:42 pm

NS win because I'm on the team.
I'll just do what a normal enterpreneur back then would do: use violence to eliminate competition.
Wait, it's just what big corps would do right now, only that nowadays they're used to outsource violence to the State or to merc companies.
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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:21 am

Everyone dies from blunt force trauma or being burnt at the stake because THE BANAN is the FRUIT OF SATAN and this is the olde timeys.

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:06 am

I nominate myself, so I can sabotage our teams efforts and forever return to pre-industrialisation
i swear 2 god if one of you wiseguys invents the steam engine I'll have you burned as a heretic
Last edited by Kubra on Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:47 am

Kubra wrote:I nominate myself, so I can sabotage our teams efforts and forever return to pre-industrialisation
i swear 2 god if one of you wiseguys invents the steam engine I'll have you burned as a heretic


Fair enough. But how do you convince/trick us to select you?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Orwell Society » Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:53 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Which billionaire do you think will act as leader on their team? Who will contribute the most?

I'd say Musk
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