Do billionaires deserve their money?

[North Jus Intius]

That depends on if he is the catalyst for the big bang in the future.

[Life empire]

capitalism gives people rewards for doing work, while it may not be a 100% perfect system it is easily the best and most succesfull economic system humanity has made, those billionaires in there early days probably worked very hard and starting a company is risky, the rewards for succesfully starting such a business give people incentives without those incentives you would seriously hinder humanities progression, in short those billionaires deffinetly should have that money, also I offer you a counter question: if you think capitalism is bad, name 1 economic system that we can achieve with current technology that would work better than capitalism (and don't bother naming socialism or communism, there is plenty of evidence throughout history that those 2 don't work)

[Forsher]

No.

As Musk demonstrates, they can't just spend their wealth and as Musk also demonstrates they can't be trusted to spend it sensibly and as Musk demonstrates they wave the existence of the wealth around to exercise plutocratic influence.

Money that isn't doing stuff for the social good isn't useful. I think everyone can agree with that, whether they want radical economic change or not.

I'm seeing people talking about how they earnt it. That's not the question, is it?

[Life empire]

No.

As Musk demonstrates, they can't just spend their wealth and as Musk also demonstrates they can't be trusted to spend it sensibly and as Musk demonstrates they wave the existence of the wealth around to exercise plutocratic influence.

Money that isn't doing stuff for the social good isn't useful. I think everyone can agree with that, whether they want radical economic change or not.

I'm seeing people talking about how they earnt it. That's not the question, is it?

and what did musk do to demonstrate that?

[Umeria]

So I guess nihilism is the best ideology because everything will eventually become dust?

In my opinion economic systems should be judged by the conditions of the poorest and those who suffer the most. If you just want to be on the winning side then go ahead

Following my logic the best ideology is just the most effective ideology. If anybody would value something as pointless as ultimately being technically correct they would be doing your thkng. I will totally enjoy being on the winning side. So do the poorest and those who suffer most by the way. Being on the losing side sucks you know starvation and shit? If you want to judge systems by mouthfeel that's totally cool just don't pretend it matters.

This really comes down to what you define as most effective. If you mean what has the highest chance of success, then the logical conclusion is to be a total nihilist, as the heat death of the universe is the only thing with a 100% chance of succeeding. But if you mean good at implementing its goals, then I would argue social democracy is the best system. Countries that have implemented it are still around and have good marks in most of the big metrics.

capitalism gives people rewards for doing work, while it may not be a 100% perfect system it is easily the best and most succesfull economic system humanity has made, those billionaires in there early days probably worked very hard and starting a company is risky, the rewards for succesfully starting such a business give people incentives without those incentives you would seriously hinder humanities progression, in short those billionaires deffinetly should have that money, also I offer you a counter question: if you think capitalism is bad, name 1 economic system that we can achieve with current technology that would work better than capitalism (and don't bother naming socialism or communism, there is plenty of evidence throughout history that those 2 don't work)

Social democracy, it's basically capitalism but with necessities like healthcare and education treated as rights rather than as commodities.

[Jewish Underground State]

i mean, didn't billionaires technically earn their money?

"Yes" Sometimes they work for it sometimes they earn it through their family. That last cause is less fair but capitalism is the best way of making an economy. Marxist thought failed so many times that i'm surprised it has a large following. Capitalism works. It isn't always fair but it works.

[Life empire]

Following my logic the best ideology is just the most effective ideology. If anybody would value something as pointless as ultimately being technically correct they would be doing your thkng. I will totally enjoy being on the winning side. So do the poorest and those who suffer most by the way. Being on the losing side sucks you know starvation and shit? If you want to judge systems by mouthfeel that's totally cool just don't pretend it matters.

This really comes down to what you define as most effective. If you mean what has the highest chance of success, then the logical conclusion is to be a total nihilist, as the heat death of the universe is the only thing with a 100% chance of succeeding. But if you mean good at implementing its goals, then I would argue social democracy is the best system. Countries that have implemented it are still around and have good marks in most of the big metrics.

capitalism gives people rewards for doing work, while it may not be a 100% perfect system it is easily the best and most succesfull economic system humanity has made, those billionaires in there early days probably worked very hard and starting a company is risky, the rewards for succesfully starting such a business give people incentives without those incentives you would seriously hinder humanities progression, in short those billionaires deffinetly should have that money, also I offer you a counter question: if you think capitalism is bad, name 1 economic system that we can achieve with current technology that would work better than capitalism (and don't bother naming socialism or communism, there is plenty of evidence throughout history that those 2 don't work)

Social democracy, it's basically capitalism but with necessities like healthcare and education treated as rights rather than as commodities.

your still paying for the healthcare and education, just through taxes instead of directly paying it

[Des-Bal]

"Yes" Sometimes they work for it sometimes they earn it through their family. That last cause is less fair but capitalism is the best way of making an economy. Marxist thought failed so many times that i'm surprised it has a large following. Capitalism works. It isn't always fair but it works.

Marxism is a fantasy where you murder those you dislike and envy and it fixes the world. I am not for one moment surprised Marxist thought has such a large following.

[Giovenith]

i mean, didn't billionaires technically earn their money?

There's a difference between obtaining something and "earning" it. To earn something implies that you did something to deserve it, that's why we don't say that a plane hijacker "earned" the plane he stole or that a robber "earned" the money he stole from the bank, even though both acts certainly take planning and dedication. Putting aside all the ethical problems that billionaires take on to achieve their wealth as well as the issue of inherited wealth being a jumpstart, one can make an argument that there is nothing that anyone could do that would make them truly deserve a billion dollars. Money isn't just money after all, money is also power. A billionaire, in effect, has the ability to do almost anything they want in this world with little to no consequence (and many of them frequently do, if you pay even the slightest bit of attention to the headlines), which is not an ability that most people would say that anyone could ever "deserve."

[ImperialRussia]

Elon does deserve his money to colonize mars to proceed the expansion of humanity and its industry else where than the earth and also focus on the stability of our planet.

[Incel Argentina]

i mean, didn't billionaires technically earn their money?

"Yes" Sometimes they work for it sometimes they earn it through their family. That last cause is less fair but capitalism is the best way of making an economy. Marxist thought failed so many times that i'm surprised it has a large following. Capitalism works. It isn't always fair but it works.

Every system works until it just doesn't. Despotism used to work just fine until the French Revolution and so did colonialism for most of imperial european history. Marxist thought has such a large following because people are starting to doubt capitalism. I'm not saying it's going to happen overnight but some new system might be coming sometime to replace current capitalism.

[Jewish Underground State]

"Yes" Sometimes they work for it sometimes they earn it through their family. That last cause is less fair but capitalism is the best way of making an economy. Marxist thought failed so many times that i'm surprised it has a large following. Capitalism works. It isn't always fair but it works.

Marxism is a fantasy where you murder those you dislike and envy and it fixes the world. I am not for one moment surprised Marxist thought has such a large following.

I always saw it was Utopia and that's why it failed.

It is weird that we live in the world where a kid being born poor on the streets and a kid being born in a fancy mansion is more fair then a word where everyone's paycheck is the same.

"Yes" Sometimes they work for it sometimes they earn it through their family. That last cause is less fair but capitalism is the best way of making an economy. Marxist thought failed so many times that i'm surprised it has a large following. Capitalism works. It isn't always fair but it works.

Every system works until it just doesn't. Despotism used to work just fine until the French Revolution and so did colonialism for most of imperial european history. Marxist thought has such a large following because people are starting to doubt capitalism. I'm not saying it's going to happen overnight but some new system might be coming sometime to replace current capitalism.

Authoritarian Capitalism may be the thing that will replace it. People distrust big companies and billionaires. They would want the government to limit these companies even if it means fewer rights for them

(So what china has)

[Life empire]

Marxism is a fantasy where you murder those you dislike and envy and it fixes the world. I am not for one moment surprised Marxist thought has such a large following.

I always saw it was Utopia and that's why it failed.

It is weird that we live in the world where a kid being born poor on the streets and a kid being born in a fancy mansion is more fair then a word where everyone's paycheck is the same.

a worls where everyone's paycheck is the same can only be fair if everyone outputs the same value, which is not the case, and having money because your parents earned it, what's unfair about that? it gives another motivation for parents to earn more money and therefor do more work

[USS Monitor]

There are legitimate reasons why someone might deserve a few million dollars, but not billions.

[Forsher]

No.

As Musk demonstrates, they can't just spend their wealth and as Musk also demonstrates they can't be trusted to spend it sensibly and as Musk demonstrates they wave the existence of the wealth around to exercise plutocratic influence.

Money that isn't doing stuff for the social good isn't useful. I think everyone can agree with that, whether they want radical economic change or not.

I'm seeing people talking about how they earnt it. That's not the question, is it?

and what did musk do to demonstrate that?

Demonstrate what? There are three different things in there.

[Life empire]

and what did musk do to demonstrate that?

Demonstrate what? There are three different things in there.

all 3

[Forsher]

Demonstrate what? There are three different things in there.

all 3

Literally anything to do with Twitter.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=518090

[ImperialRussia]

It depends how people use there money for the benefit of man not for luxury and lust and desire one self interest.

[Torisakia]

Sure, assuming they actually ethically worked for it. But how often does that occur?

[Umeria]

Social democracy, it's basically capitalism but with necessities like healthcare and education treated as rights rather than as commodities.

your still paying for the healthcare and education, just through taxes instead of directly paying it

Yes and that's a much better way to do it than via the private sector

[Senkaku]

No one deserves the burden of money, everyone deserves to be vibing on a Paleolithic savanna high out of their minds

[Jewish Underground State]

No one deserves the burden of money, everyone deserves to be vibing on a Paleolithic savanna high out of their minds

What a utopian paradise. Let's now head back to reality where we can have people born with billions dollars to use while others can barely make a living off of 3 jobs.

[Life empire]

all 3

Literally anything to do with Twitter.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=518090

yeah him buying twitter was a great idea, good for free speech, don't think that proves your point though

your still paying for the healthcare and education, just through taxes instead of directly paying it

Yes and that's a much better way to do it than via the private sector

how is that better?

[Nevertopia]

do billionaires deserve their money? Yes. Should they pay proportional taxes? Also yes. Its not mutually exclusive.

[Jewish Underground State]

do billionaires deserve their money? Yes. Should they pay proportional taxes? Also yes. Its not mutually exclusive.

Amen to that brotha