Do billionaires deserve their money?

[Des-Bal]

Yes there was it was where the bodies came from.

No, "the bodies" (whatever this is even referring to) did not come from an attempt to implement Communism because, again, there was no attempt. There was the implementation of a planned economy with Socialist characteristics, which was claimed by the framers to be part of the process that would inevitably lead to Communism. No state has ever attained Communism, nor have they ever claimed to. They have all always claimed to be "working toward Communism"; whether of course they actually were is up for debate. In some cases (coughnorthkoreacough) there is reasonable doubt as to whether they ever intended to work toward it. Others, such as China under Deng and the USSR under Gorbachev, did a 180 and went further Rightward rather than continuing down the Left-wing path.

And the contedt of your gripes is that you are complaining about what is literally the best thing in the universe.

Capitalism is the best thing in the universe? Really? My man if I go to College I will be in debt for the rest of my life. Fuck Capitalism.

Billions live because of capitalism,

Billions more have died because of Capitalism. Capitalism kills more people than it saves my dude. Again, three hundred years and counting of evidence.

this population never existed before nobody is going away shucks that durned capitalism done stole my amcestral 4k streaming and now I'm starving to death.

Are you having a stroke lmao. What even is this.

Okay point to any corner of the world doing every bit as good having never had capitalism.

I can't. The Capitalists destabilized them all.

So you're not homeless and if you keep working will not become homeless.

No, that's Socialism. Under Capitalism you can work and still end up homeless. I'm just luckier than some.

If you do become homeless you'll probably be okay though since it's never been easier to live.

Bro what. Holy shit this is just deranged.

The running water you have access to at any time is practically poison? Technically thats not as as bad as drinking stagnant water that will literally kill you or just not having water. It would suck if you drank something that was almost poison but you'd likely be okay because it's never been harder to die.

Get help. Seriously.

If you want the crown be better.

We're already better my dude. We're not the ones destroying the planet.

I will guess you mean Revolutionary Socialism by looking at your dispatch.

The problem is that transitioning from a capitalist economic structure to a socialist one has flaws. It doesn't matter if the way to seize control of the economy is violent or peaceful, someone is gonna gain too much power in the economy.

Let's assume that a group of workers decide to take control of the economy and make it socialist. Those workers aren't workers anymore since they have control of the economy. They are the new upper class. The book known as Animal Farm does a great job of showing how this works. The pigs went from being like all the other animals to leading the farm and becoming mad with power.

Socialism claims to make everyone equal but forgets how tyrants are put into power.

So you have no idea what Socialism is. Got it.

Yeah ive heard the justifications flat no.

There's literally nothing better.

Wow you can go to college? So sorry you have the option.

No it hasn't. Capitalism is responsible for every human who had ever lived.

See you did the thing where your like "oh capitalism did all the bad" no it didn't. It just fixed almost everything and you're being ungrateful.

Right, capitalism is so effective that not only is it #1 #2 doesn’t even exist. Capitalism won, that's not a black mark against it.

It's actually quoting you, you said you were a missed paycheck away from homelessness which means you are not homeless and don't plan to be but you're complaining about it.

It's a fact that the worst case scenario for someone in the developed world is nowhere near as bad as it was in any historical context. Even if your homeless you probably won't die. You're welcome.

I have access to help, capitalism provides. Just like it provided you the ready access to water you were complaining about.

Dodos aren't destroying the planet either it's not a point in their favor just a symptom of them being unsuitable to survive.

[Des-Bal]

That's still whataboutism. If you don't want to try to justify the existence of billionaires you're in the wrong thread.

No it's not. If someone says "you suck" and you reply "you also suck" thats whatsboutism because you're not rebutting anything it's very possible for you to suck and for them to suck both can be true. If someone says "you suck" and you reply "Nobody had ever sucked less than I do" that's not whataboutism it's laying bare the flaw of the initial assertion. Capitalism is the best, if you say it's bad your either wrong or bad isn't actually an indictment.

I literally just justified billionaires they have the money. That's the justification I went into more detail about their worth. The fact is a laborer is more fungible than a CEO and if one manager and one laborer put in an eight hour day the manager created more value.

[Sordhau]

There's literally nothing better.

There is, actually. It's called Socialism.

Wow you can go to college?

Uh, no. I thought I demonstrated quite clear that I cannot afford college.

Capitalism is responsible for every human who had ever lived.

Capitalism has only existed for three hundred years at minimum. Five hundred if you want to be generous. Not even half of the total human population throughout history.

See you did the thing where your like "oh capitalism did all the bad" no it didn't. It just fixed almost everything and you're being ungrateful.

No, you just fail to understand how Leftists view history.

Capitalism was an improvement over what came before, absolutely. It fueled industrialization, urbanization, numerous scientific advancements, political revolution, etc. All of which are great things. But Capitalism is outdated. It's ideals, it's principles, are practical ancient. Just as Capitalism replaced what came before it the time has come for Capitalism, too, to be replaced. This is the purpose of Socialism.

Right, capitalism is so effective that not only is it #1 #2 doesn’t even exist. Capitalism won, that's not a black mark against it.

Yes, actually, it is because we are paying for that victory. The triumph of Capitalism has not only ushered in a new age of Euro-American imperialism but also has effectively doomed human civilization. It is true, yes, that we living at the peak of supremacy for our species. It is true, yes, that Capitalism deserves the credit for this accomplishment. Yet it is also true--undeniably so--that when this peak collapses it will be because of Capitalism. As it turns out, raping the world for the profit of a handful of suits is not a sustainable model to build a global society on and in fact has dire repercussions. I don't know how old you are but I'm young enough that I may very well live to see this catastrophe with my own two eyes; and that's not something I will ever look forward to.

It's actually quoting you, you said you were a missed paycheck away from homelessness which means you are not homeless and don't plan to be but you're complaining about it.

No, you're missing my point. Your attributing my lack of homelessness to Capitalism when homelessness is very often caused by Capitalism is both ironic and bizarre.

It's a fact that the worst case scenario for someone in the developed world is nowhere near as bad as it was in any historical context.

Okay, but why does that mean we shouldn't try to make that worst case scenario *better*?

Even if your homeless you probably won't die.

You, frankly, don't know that.

I have access to help, capitalism provides.

*If you can afford it.

Just like it provided you the ready access to water you were complaining about.

Yes, I'm very thankful for the nasty-ass water polluted with God-knows-what that makes my throat dryer when I drink it - especially considering I live in a society that very much has the means and ability to provide with clean drinking water from the tap but refuses to do so because Capitalism says you gotta pay for that privilege.

Why should I be thankful for the subpar living conditions Capitalism grants me when it can easily give me something better if it wasn't a system designed intrinsically around greed? Because somebody else has it bad in another country? Because one of long distant ancestors from the past whom I've never met had it even worse? No, fuck that psychotic logic.

[The United Front Empire]

There's literally nothing better.

There is, actually. It's called Socialism.

Wow you can go to college?

Uh, no. I thought I demonstrated quite clear that I cannot afford college.

Capitalism is responsible for every human who had ever lived.

Capitalism has only existed for three hundred years at minimum. Five hundred if you want to be generous. Not even half of the total human population throughout history.

See you did the thing where your like "oh capitalism did all the bad" no it didn't. It just fixed almost everything and you're being ungrateful.

No, you just fail to understand how Leftists view history.

Capitalism was an improvement over what came before, absolutely. It fueled industrialization, urbanization, numerous scientific advancements, political revolution, etc. All of which are great things. But Capitalism is outdated. It's ideals, it's principles, are practical ancient. Just as Capitalism replaced what came before it the time has come for Capitalism, too, to be replaced. This is the purpose of Socialism.

Right, capitalism is so effective that not only is it #1 #2 doesn’t even exist. Capitalism won, that's not a black mark against it.

Yes, actually, it is because we are paying for that victory. The triumph of Capitalism has not only ushered in a new age of Euro-American imperialism but also has effectively doomed human civilization. It is true, yes, that we living at the peak of supremacy for our species. It is true, yes, that Capitalism deserves the credit for this accomplishment. Yet it is also true--undeniably so--that when this peak collapses it will be because of Capitalism. As it turns out, raping the world for the profit of a handful of suits is not a sustainable model to build a global society on and in fact has dire repercussions. I don't know how old you are but I'm young enough that I may very well live to see this catastrophe with my own two eyes; and that's not something I will ever look forward to.

It's actually quoting you, you said you were a missed paycheck away from homelessness which means you are not homeless and don't plan to be but you're complaining about it.

No, you're missing my point. Your attributing my lack of homelessness to Capitalism when homelessness is very often caused by Capitalism is both ironic and bizarre.

It's a fact that the worst case scenario for someone in the developed world is nowhere near as bad as it was in any historical context.

Okay, but why does that mean we shouldn't try to make that worst case scenario *better*?

Even if your homeless you probably won't die.

You, frankly, don't know that.

I have access to help, capitalism provides.

*If you can afford it.

Just like it provided you the ready access to water you were complaining about.

Yes, I'm very thankful for the nasty-ass water polluted with God-knows-what that makes my throat dryer when I drink it - especially considering I live in a society that very much has the means and ability to provide with clean drinking water from the tap but refuses to do so because Capitalism says you gotta pay for that privilege.

Why should I be thankful for the subpar living conditions Capitalism grants me when it can easily give me something better if it wasn't a system designed intrinsically around greed? Because somebody else has it bad in another country? Because one of long distant ancestors from the past whom I've never met had it even worse? No, fuck that psychotic logic.

By socialism...you mean socialist policies with a Capitalist background like Europe has...right? Because otherwise I'm still waiting for pure socialism to not just kill people.

I am actually fascinated by where you might live that is under Capitalism but apparently your water is...what? Contaminated? Or just tastes a little weird? We have regulations that prevent the former, so idk what you want. Is your actual argument for upending the entire system that you want to goto college for free and drink purer water...that you could also get by buying like a $20 filter?

[Des-Bal]

There's literally nothing better.

There is, actually. It's called Socialism.

Wow you can go to college?

Uh, no. I thought I demonstrated quite clear that I cannot afford college.

Capitalism is responsible for every human who had ever lived.

Capitalism has only existed for three hundred years at minimum. Five hundred if you want to be generous. Not even half of the total human population throughout history.

See you did the thing where your like "oh capitalism did all the bad" no it didn't. It just fixed almost everything and you're being ungrateful.

No, you just fail to understand how Leftists view history.

Capitalism was an improvement over what came before, absolutely. It fueled industrialization, urbanization, numerous scientific advancements, political revolution, etc. All of which are great things. But Capitalism is outdated. It's ideals, it's principles, are practical ancient. Just as Capitalism replaced what came before it the time has come for Capitalism, too, to be replaced. This is the purpose of Socialism.

Right, capitalism is so effective that not only is it #1 #2 doesn’t even exist. Capitalism won, that's not a black mark against it.

Yes, actually, it is because we are paying for that victory. The triumph of Capitalism has not only ushered in a new age of Euro-American imperialism but also has effectively doomed human civilization. It is true, yes, that we living at the peak of supremacy for our species. It is true, yes, that Capitalism deserves the credit for this accomplishment. Yet it is also true--undeniably so--that when this peak collapses it will be because of Capitalism. As it turns out, raping the world for the profit of a handful of suits is not a sustainable model to build a global society on and in fact has dire repercussions. I don't know how old you are but I'm young enough that I may very well live to see this catastrophe with my own two eyes; and that's not something I will ever look forward to.

It's actually quoting you, you said you were a missed paycheck away from homelessness which means you are not homeless and don't plan to be but you're complaining about it.

No, you're missing my point. Your attributing my lack of homelessness to Capitalism when homelessness is very often caused by Capitalism is both ironic and bizarre.

It's a fact that the worst case scenario for someone in the developed world is nowhere near as bad as it was in any historical context.

Okay, but why does that mean we shouldn't try to make that worst case scenario *better*?

Even if your homeless you probably won't die.

You, frankly, don't know that.

I have access to help, capitalism provides.

*If you can afford it.

Just like it provided you the ready access to water you were complaining about.

Yes, I'm very thankful for the nasty-ass water polluted with God-knows-what that makes my throat dryer when I drink it - especially considering I live in a society that very much has the means and ability to provide with clean drinking water from the tap but refuses to do so because Capitalism says you gotta pay for that privilege.

Why should I be thankful for the subpar living conditions Capitalism grants me when it can easily give me something better if it wasn't a system designed intrinsically around greed? Because somebody else has it bad in another country? Because one of long distant ancestors from the past whom I've never met had it even worse? No, fuck that psychotic logic.

Socialism has never done anything but kill people.

Sure you can you just said you'd have to be in debt which while unpleasant is not mortal.

Yeah so capitalism kicked in and shit suddenly got awesome.

I totally understand you have incorrect thoughts and dreams.

We'll litigate the end of human history when it arrives.

Houses don't grow on trees you have the option of being housed due to capitalism.

We totally should the problem is Socialism is bullshit that doesn't work and if you want to threaten the fruits of all human progress to repeat an experiment with a 100% failure rate and impressive body count you should understand violent disapproval

Probabilities? Yes I do. Exceptionally few people die yo malnutrition and exposure and it's because Capitalism is great.

Yes and the alternative is not having it.

Because the alternative is not having it. I admire your greed it will serve you well as you navigate the capitalist system. Capitalism uses that greed as fuel. Continue lusting for more and more, seize upon any angle of unfair advantage. Exploit whenever you can and innovate wherever you must. That's the great thing about capitalism, if you want more if you don't just want to passively accept what your given then take more. Be worth more.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

There's literally nothing better.

There is, actually. It's called Socialism.

Wow you can go to college?

Uh, no. I thought I demonstrated quite clear that I cannot afford college.

Capitalism is responsible for every human who had ever lived.

Capitalism has only existed for three hundred years at minimum. Five hundred if you want to be generous. Not even half of the total human population throughout history.

See you did the thing where your like "oh capitalism did all the bad" no it didn't. It just fixed almost everything and you're being ungrateful.

No, you just fail to understand how Leftists view history.

Capitalism was an improvement over what came before, absolutely. It fueled industrialization, urbanization, numerous scientific advancements, political revolution, etc. All of which are great things. But Capitalism is outdated. It's ideals, it's principles, are practical ancient. Just as Capitalism replaced what came before it the time has come for Capitalism, too, to be replaced. This is the purpose of Socialism.

Right, capitalism is so effective that not only is it #1 #2 doesn’t even exist. Capitalism won, that's not a black mark against it.

Yes, actually, it is because we are paying for that victory. The triumph of Capitalism has not only ushered in a new age of Euro-American imperialism but also has effectively doomed human civilization. It is true, yes, that we living at the peak of supremacy for our species. It is true, yes, that Capitalism deserves the credit for this accomplishment. Yet it is also true--undeniably so--that when this peak collapses it will be because of Capitalism. As it turns out, raping the world for the profit of a handful of suits is not a sustainable model to build a global society on and in fact has dire repercussions. I don't know how old you are but I'm young enough that I may very well live to see this catastrophe with my own two eyes; and that's not something I will ever look forward to.

It's actually quoting you, you said you were a missed paycheck away from homelessness which means you are not homeless and don't plan to be but you're complaining about it.

No, you're missing my point. Your attributing my lack of homelessness to Capitalism when homelessness is very often caused by Capitalism is both ironic and bizarre.

It's a fact that the worst case scenario for someone in the developed world is nowhere near as bad as it was in any historical context.

Okay, but why does that mean we shouldn't try to make that worst case scenario *better*?

Even if your homeless you probably won't die.

You, frankly, don't know that.

I have access to help, capitalism provides.

*If you can afford it.

Just like it provided you the ready access to water you were complaining about.

Yes, I'm very thankful for the nasty-ass water polluted with God-knows-what that makes my throat dryer when I drink it - especially considering I live in a society that very much has the means and ability to provide with clean drinking water from the tap but refuses to do so because Capitalism says you gotta pay for that privilege.

Why should I be thankful for the subpar living conditions Capitalism grants me when it can easily give me something better if it wasn't a system designed intrinsically around greed? Because somebody else has it bad in another country? Because one of long distant ancestors from the past whom I've never met had it even worse? No, fuck that psychotic logic.

Socialism...
40% of the Chinese population in poverty. North Korea isolated from the world. Protests in Argentina and Chile.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

There is, actually. It's called Socialism.



Uh, no. I thought I demonstrated quite clear that I cannot afford college.



Capitalism has only existed for three hundred years at minimum. Five hundred if you want to be generous. Not even half of the total human population throughout history.



No, you just fail to understand how Leftists view history.

Capitalism was an improvement over what came before, absolutely. It fueled industrialization, urbanization, numerous scientific advancements, political revolution, etc. All of which are great things. But Capitalism is outdated. It's ideals, it's principles, are practical ancient. Just as Capitalism replaced what came before it the time has come for Capitalism, too, to be replaced. This is the purpose of Socialism.



Yes, actually, it is because we are paying for that victory. The triumph of Capitalism has not only ushered in a new age of Euro-American imperialism but also has effectively doomed human civilization. It is true, yes, that we living at the peak of supremacy for our species. It is true, yes, that Capitalism deserves the credit for this accomplishment. Yet it is also true--undeniably so--that when this peak collapses it will be because of Capitalism. As it turns out, raping the world for the profit of a handful of suits is not a sustainable model to build a global society on and in fact has dire repercussions. I don't know how old you are but I'm young enough that I may very well live to see this catastrophe with my own two eyes; and that's not something I will ever look forward to.



No, you're missing my point. Your attributing my lack of homelessness to Capitalism when homelessness is very often caused by Capitalism is both ironic and bizarre.



Okay, but why does that mean we shouldn't try to make that worst case scenario *better*?



You, frankly, don't know that.



*If you can afford it.



Yes, I'm very thankful for the nasty-ass water polluted with God-knows-what that makes my throat dryer when I drink it - especially considering I live in a society that very much has the means and ability to provide with clean drinking water from the tap but refuses to do so because Capitalism says you gotta pay for that privilege.

Why should I be thankful for the subpar living conditions Capitalism grants me when it can easily give me something better if it wasn't a system designed intrinsically around greed? Because somebody else has it bad in another country? Because one of long distant ancestors from the past whom I've never met had it even worse? No, fuck that psychotic logic.

Socialism...
40% of the Chinese population in poverty. North Korea isolated from the world. Protests in Argentina and Chile.

88%*

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Socialism...
40% of the Chinese population in poverty. North Korea isolated from the world. Protests in Argentina and Chile.

88%*

I'm saying from China before 1970

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Before 1970 China was a poor and Socialist country, after 1970 China started opening up the economy, that is, capitalism. And the change of course in China took place 8 years later in 1978. While since 1949 the Chinese Party of China for 21 years before opening the market, could not bring the poverty level below 80%

[Romextly]

The poll has some very neutral choices

[Umeria]

Before 1970 China was a poor and Socialist country, after 1970 China started opening up the economy, that is, capitalism. And the change of course in China took place 8 years later in 1978. While since 1949 the Chinese Party of China for 21 years before opening the market, could not bring the poverty level below 80%

It's important to remember that China's opening of the economy wasn't just "we're capitalist now, let the chips fall where they may". It was a very controlled transition and the state was involved every step of they way. Compare this to what happened in places like Russia that embraced "shock therapy".

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Before 1970 China was a poor and Socialist country, after 1970 China started opening up the economy, that is, capitalism. And the change of course in China took place 8 years later in 1978. While since 1949 the Chinese Party of China for 21 years before opening the market, could not bring the poverty level below 80%

It's important to remember that China's opening of the economy wasn't just "we're capitalist now, let the chips fall where they may". It was a very controlled transition and the state was involved every step of they way. Compare this to what happened in places like Russia that embraced "shock therapy".

Yea. But even so, if it weren't for a "capitalist attitude" China would still be poor today.

[Sordhau]

Socialism has never done anything but kill people.

Socialism lifted millions out of poverty in every country it's been implemented in. It's expanded access to healthcare, food, water, electricity, education, and all sorts of amenities to populations that had no access to them. It's turned backwater agrarian states into industrial giants. It's liberated women and minorities by combating patriarchal and xenophobic cultures. It took us to space for Christ's sake. It has literally founded countries, ended corrupt regimes, repelled invasions, and given people better lives than what they had before. In every country that Socialism has been implemented the lives and well-being of the average worker improved drastically over the pitiful conditions that feudalists/capitalists had them endure before.

To suggest Socialism has never done anything but kill people is so ludicrous as to be a complete rejection of reality itself. Please pick up a fucking history book my dude, holy shit.

Sure you can you just said you'd have to be in debt which while unpleasant is not mortal.

My man I should not have to go into debt for the rest of my life just to get a higher education. That is absolutely fucking bonkers. In a Socialist state I could access education free of charge; the way it should be.

Yeah so capitalism kicked in and shit suddenly got awesome.

Oh yeah, shit got awesome alright... for the West. Their victims? Not so much.

Houses don't grow on trees you have the option of being housed due to capitalism.

I could get better arguments from high schoolers ngl.

Houses don't grow on trees, which is why if there aren't enough houses you build more. Notably however we do not have a housing crisis in America. Quite the opposite; we have more houses than people. Our homeless population is destitute specifically because they cannot afford to buy any of these houses. Most Americans are forced to rent. In my case I need two paychecks just to rent a single-person condo.

Under Socialism so long as you work you will be housed; no need to buy or rent anything. Under Capitalism you can have a steady, well-paying job and still be homeless. San Francisco has one of the largest homeless populations in the nation and yet most of them have steady jobs while plenty of houses remain vacant and took expensive to afford. Good job, Capitalism. Very impressive.

We totally should the problem is Socialism is bullshit that doesn't work

It's interesting how so many people say "Socialism doesn't work" yet none of these same people seem to be able to explain how or why.

and if you want to threaten the fruits of all human progress

Capitalism is already doing that with irreversible total ecological devastation... but I noticed you've been ignoring this point rather consistently.

Probabilities? Yes I do. Exceptionally few people die yo malnutrition and exposure and it's because Capitalism is great.

No, it's because modern societies have managed to devise viable solutions to these problems thanks to advancements in technology.

Capitalism stifles this advancement, however. We will never have a cure for cancer because there is no profit in cures. Maybe if the medical industry wasn't run by people trying to make money we would have cured it already.

Yes and the alternative is not having it.

No it isn't. This is perhaps the apex of your delusional belief that a modern society somehow cannot exist without Capitalism. What possibly possesses you to believe this utter nonsense? Do you really think that if the workers seized the means of production tomorrow that every advancement made in the past 300 years would go out the window or something? Because if so that's pretty fucking sad.

I admire your greed

My brother in Christ... you really don't get it, do you?

I don't care about fucking money. I want to be able to have a decent fucking life. Something which Capitalism denies me. I want water that is safe to drink, I want electricity that doesn't cut off, I want walls that won't give me cancer, I want food that won't make me sick. I want the security of knowing that I have a roof over my head which will never be taken away, utilities to provide me with necessities I need to survive that won't be shut off. I want to be able to go to the doctor without being charged for a life-saving operation, I want to be able to get a higher education without having to pay out of pocket for my own materials, I want to be able to breath air that isn't choked by smog. I want to be able to live without having to fucking pay for life itself. I work for a living. That in and of itself is more than enough reason that I should be provided with everything I need to live a decent life, with the only expense I should have to pay being taxes.

I don't want riches. I don't want "free stuff". I want the fucking dignity that a working class human being deserves. This is all possible through Socialism, because all that money being wasted by billionaires to buy another bugatti could instead be used to build a brand new hospital, to design new fuel-efficient energy production, to create a better world more livable than this one. As long as my needs are being met I don't care if 90% of my paycheck is going to government taxes. I want a decent fucking life and that isn't possible under Capitalism, not without being part of the oppressor class, and no matter what lies you tell yourself the "self-made man" is a myth. The "American Dream" is a myth. Even if I wanted to partake in your psychotic and callous system of thievery and exploitation where the most vicious bastard gets to the top by stepping on everyone else I'll never have the opportunity.

A better world is entirely possible and the only obstacle to it is Capitalism. Ergo, Capitalism must be destroyed.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Socialism has never done anything but kill people.

Socialism lifted millions out of poverty in every country it's been implemented in. It's expanded access to healthcare, food, water, electricity, education, and all sorts of amenities to populations that had no access to them. It's turned backwater agrarian states into industrial giants. It's liberated women and minorities by combating patriarchal and xenophobic cultures. It took us to space for Christ's sake. It has literally founded countries, ended corrupt regimes, repelled invasions, and given people better lives than what they had before. In every country that Socialism has been implemented the lives and well-being of the average worker improved drastically over the pitiful conditions that feudalists/capitalists had them endure before.

To suggest Socialism has never done anything but kill people is so ludicrous as to be a complete rejection of reality itself. Please pick up a fucking history book my dude, holy shit.

Sure you can you just said you'd have to be in debt which while unpleasant is not mortal.

My man I should not have to go into debt for the rest of my life just to get a higher education. That is absolutely fucking bonkers. In a Socialist state I could access education free of charge; the way it should be.

Yeah so capitalism kicked in and shit suddenly got awesome.

Oh yeah, shit got awesome alright... for the West. Their victims? Not so much.

Houses don't grow on trees you have the option of being housed due to capitalism.

I could get better arguments from high schoolers ngl.

Houses don't grow on trees, which is why if there aren't enough houses you build more. Notably however we do not have a housing crisis in America. Quite the opposite; we have more houses than people. Our homeless population is destitute specifically because they cannot afford to buy any of these houses. Most Americans are forced to rent. In my case I need two paychecks just to rent a single-person condo.

Under Socialism so long as you work you will be housed; no need to buy or rent anything. Under Capitalism you can have a steady, well-paying job and still be homeless. San Francisco has one of the largest homeless populations in the nation and yet most of them have steady jobs while plenty of houses remain vacant and took expensive to afford. Good job, Capitalism. Very impressive.

We totally should the problem is Socialism is bullshit that doesn't work

It's interesting how so many people say "Socialism doesn't work" yet none of these same people seem to be able to explain how or why.

and if you want to threaten the fruits of all human progress

Capitalism is already doing that with irreversible total ecological devastation... but I noticed you've been ignoring this point rather consistently.

Probabilities? Yes I do. Exceptionally few people die yo malnutrition and exposure and it's because Capitalism is great.

No, it's because modern societies have managed to devise viable solutions to these problems thanks to advancements in technology.

Capitalism stifles this advancement, however. We will never have a cure for cancer because there is no profit in cures. Maybe if the medical industry wasn't run by people trying to make money we would have cured it already.

Yes and the alternative is not having it.

No it isn't. This is perhaps the apex of your delusional belief that a modern society somehow cannot exist without Capitalism. What possibly possesses you to believe this utter nonsense? Do you really think that if the workers seized the means of production tomorrow that every advancement made in the past 300 years would go out the window or something? Because if so that's pretty fucking sad.

I admire your greed

My brother in Christ... you really don't get it, do you?

I don't care about fucking money. I want to be able to have a decent fucking life. Something which Capitalism denies me. I want water that is safe to drink, I want electricity that doesn't cut off, I want walls that won't give me cancer, I want food that won't make me sick. I want the security of knowing that I have a roof over my head which will never be taken away, utilities to provide me with necessities I need to survive that won't be shut off. I want to be able to go to the doctor without being charged for a life-saving operation, I want to be able to get a higher education without having to pay out of pocket for my own materials, I want to be able to breath air that isn't choked by smog. I want to be able to live without having to fucking pay for life itself. I work for a living. That in and of itself is more than enough reason that I should be provided with everything I need to live a decent life, with the only expense I should have to pay being taxes.

I don't want riches. I don't want "free stuff". I want the fucking dignity that a working class human being deserves. This is all possible through Socialism, because all that money being wasted by billionaires to buy another bugatti could instead be used to build a brand new hospital, to design new fuel-efficient energy production, to create a better world more livable than this one. As long as my needs are being met I don't care if 90% of my paycheck is going to government taxes. I want a decent fucking life and that isn't possible under Capitalism, not without being part of the oppressor class, and no matter what lies you tell yourself the "self-made man" is a myth. The "American Dream" is a myth. Even if I wanted to partake in your psychotic and callous system of thievery and exploitation where the most vicious bastard gets to the top by stepping on everyone else I'll never have the opportunity.

A better world is entirely possible and the only obstacle to it is Capitalism. Ergo, Capitalism must be destroyed.

If Socialism really is that good. How did the USSR collapse?

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Socialism has never done anything but kill people.

Socialism lifted millions out of poverty in every country it's been implemented in. It's expanded access to healthcare, food, water, electricity, education, and all sorts of amenities to populations that had no access to them. It's turned backwater agrarian states into industrial giants. It's liberated women and minorities by combating patriarchal and xenophobic cultures. It took us to space for Christ's sake. It has literally founded countries, ended corrupt regimes, repelled invasions, and given people better lives than what they had before. In every country that Socialism has been implemented the lives and well-being of the average worker improved drastically over the pitiful conditions that feudalists/capitalists had them endure before.

To suggest Socialism has never done anything but kill people is so ludicrous as to be a complete rejection of reality itself. Please pick up a fucking history book my dude, holy shit.

Sure you can you just said you'd have to be in debt which while unpleasant is not mortal.

My man I should not have to go into debt for the rest of my life just to get a higher education. That is absolutely fucking bonkers. In a Socialist state I could access education free of charge; the way it should be.

Yeah so capitalism kicked in and shit suddenly got awesome.

Oh yeah, shit got awesome alright... for the West. Their victims? Not so much.

Houses don't grow on trees you have the option of being housed due to capitalism.

I could get better arguments from high schoolers ngl.

Houses don't grow on trees, which is why if there aren't enough houses you build more. Notably however we do not have a housing crisis in America. Quite the opposite; we have more houses than people. Our homeless population is destitute specifically because they cannot afford to buy any of these houses. Most Americans are forced to rent. In my case I need two paychecks just to rent a single-person condo.

Under Socialism so long as you work you will be housed; no need to buy or rent anything. Under Capitalism you can have a steady, well-paying job and still be homeless. San Francisco has one of the largest homeless populations in the nation and yet most of them have steady jobs while plenty of houses remain vacant and took expensive to afford. Good job, Capitalism. Very impressive.

We totally should the problem is Socialism is bullshit that doesn't work

It's interesting how so many people say "Socialism doesn't work" yet none of these same people seem to be able to explain how or why.

and if you want to threaten the fruits of all human progress

Capitalism is already doing that with irreversible total ecological devastation... but I noticed you've been ignoring this point rather consistently.

Probabilities? Yes I do. Exceptionally few people die yo malnutrition and exposure and it's because Capitalism is great.

No, it's because modern societies have managed to devise viable solutions to these problems thanks to advancements in technology.

Capitalism stifles this advancement, however. We will never have a cure for cancer because there is no profit in cures. Maybe if the medical industry wasn't run by people trying to make money we would have cured it already.

Yes and the alternative is not having it.

No it isn't. This is perhaps the apex of your delusional belief that a modern society somehow cannot exist without Capitalism. What possibly possesses you to believe this utter nonsense? Do you really think that if the workers seized the means of production tomorrow that every advancement made in the past 300 years would go out the window or something? Because if so that's pretty fucking sad.

I admire your greed

My brother in Christ... you really don't get it, do you?

I don't care about fucking money. I want to be able to have a decent fucking life. Something which Capitalism denies me. I want water that is safe to drink, I want electricity that doesn't cut off, I want walls that won't give me cancer, I want food that won't make me sick. I want the security of knowing that I have a roof over my head which will never be taken away, utilities to provide me with necessities I need to survive that won't be shut off. I want to be able to go to the doctor without being charged for a life-saving operation, I want to be able to get a higher education without having to pay out of pocket for my own materials, I want to be able to breath air that isn't choked by smog. I want to be able to live without having to fucking pay for life itself. I work for a living. That in and of itself is more than enough reason that I should be provided with everything I need to live a decent life, with the only expense I should have to pay being taxes.

I don't want riches. I don't want "free stuff". I want the fucking dignity that a working class human being deserves. This is all possible through Socialism, because all that money being wasted by billionaires to buy another bugatti could instead be used to build a brand new hospital, to design new fuel-efficient energy production, to create a better world more livable than this one. As long as my needs are being met I don't care if 90% of my paycheck is going to government taxes. I want a decent fucking life and that isn't possible under Capitalism, not without being part of the oppressor class, and no matter what lies you tell yourself the "self-made man" is a myth. The "American Dream" is a myth. Even if I wanted to partake in your psychotic and callous system of thievery and exploitation where the most vicious bastard gets to the top by stepping on everyone else I'll never have the opportunity.

A better world is entirely possible and the only obstacle to it is Capitalism. Ergo, Capitalism must be destroyed.

There are several super-developed countries that are capitalist and that so far do not have high numbers of poverty.

[Jewish Underground State]

Yes there was it was where the bodies came from.

No, "the bodies" (whatever this is even referring to) did not come from an attempt to implement Communism because, again, there was no attempt. There was the implementation of a planned economy with Socialist characteristics, which was claimed by the framers to be part of the process that would inevitably lead to Communism. No state has ever attained Communism, nor have they ever claimed to. They have all always claimed to be "working toward Communism"; whether of course they actually were is up for debate. In some cases (coughnorthkoreacough) there is reasonable doubt as to whether they ever intended to work toward it. Others, such as China under Deng and the USSR under Gorbachev, did a 180 and went further Rightward rather than continuing down the Left-wing path.

And the contedt of your gripes is that you are complaining about what is literally the best thing in the universe.

Capitalism is the best thing in the universe? Really? My man if I go to College I will be in debt for the rest of my life. Fuck Capitalism.

Billions live because of capitalism,

Billions more have died because of Capitalism. Capitalism kills more people than it saves my dude. Again, three hundred years and counting of evidence.

this population never existed before nobody is going away shucks that durned capitalism done stole my amcestral 4k streaming and now I'm starving to death.

Are you having a stroke lmao. What even is this.

Okay point to any corner of the world doing every bit as good having never had capitalism.

I can't. The Capitalists destabilized them all.

So you're not homeless and if you keep working will not become homeless.

No, that's Socialism. Under Capitalism you can work and still end up homeless. I'm just luckier than some.

If you do become homeless you'll probably be okay though since it's never been easier to live.

Bro what. Holy shit this is just deranged.

The running water you have access to at any time is practically poison? Technically thats not as as bad as drinking stagnant water that will literally kill you or just not having water. It would suck if you drank something that was almost poison but you'd likely be okay because it's never been harder to die.

Get help. Seriously.

If you want the crown be better.

We're already better my dude. We're not the ones destroying the planet.

I will guess you mean Revolutionary Socialism by looking at your dispatch.

The problem is that transitioning from a capitalist economic structure to a socialist one has flaws. It doesn't matter if the way to seize control of the economy is violent or peaceful, someone is gonna gain too much power in the economy.

Let's assume that a group of workers decide to take control of the economy and make it socialist. Those workers aren't workers anymore since they have control of the economy. They are the new upper class. The book known as Animal Farm does a great job of showing how this works. The pigs went from being like all the other animals to leading the farm and becoming mad with power.

Socialism claims to make everyone equal but forgets how tyrants are put into power.

So you have no idea what Socialism is. Got it.

Ok fine. It's fanfiction on how to make a utopia.

[Nimzonia]

There are several super-developed countries that are capitalist and that so far do not have high numbers of poverty.

Developed countries just outsource poverty to the third world.

[Countesia]

I think if you have more money than you could ever reasonably spend in your lifetime, let alone multiple, you should as a civic duty pay more in taxes. Why? To help your fellow human being have access to basic human rights.

[Jewish Underground State]

I think if you have more money than you could ever reasonably spend in your lifetime, let alone multiple, you should as a civic duty pay more in taxes. Why? To help your fellow human being have access to basic human rights.

That's what Bill Gates is doing. But also people save a lot of it to give to their children

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

There are several super-developed countries that are capitalist and that so far do not have high numbers of poverty.

Developed countries just outsource poverty to the third world.

Vietnam. A socialist country whose ultra-rich earn enough to lift most of the poor out of poverty.

[Jewish Underground State]

Developed countries just outsource poverty to the third world.

Vietnam. A socialist country whose ultra-rich earn enough to lift most of the poor out of poverty.

Don't forget Botswana. Africa's greatest come back story.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Vietnam. A socialist country whose ultra-rich earn enough to lift most of the poor out of poverty.

Don't forget Botswana. Africa's greatest come back story.

More than 70% of Cuban families live on 3.8 dollars.

[Nimzonia]

Developed countries just outsource poverty to the third world.

Vietnam. A socialist country whose ultra-rich earn enough to lift most of the poor out of poverty.

OK? Not sure why you're telling me this, since it doesn't relate to my comment in any way.

[Atlantic Federalist Republic]

Vietnam. A socialist country whose ultra-rich earn enough to lift most of the poor out of poverty.

OK? Not sure why you're telling me this, since it doesn't relate to my comment in any way.

lol

[The United Front Empire]

There are several super-developed countries that are capitalist and that so far do not have high numbers of poverty.

Developed countries just outsource poverty to the third world.

This false idea is probably one of the worst to seed its roots in academia in the 21st century.