Do billionaires deserve their money?

[Des-Bal]

No it doesn't lol.

Capitalism practically invented mass murder. You think Western countries are as wealthy as they are because they're just more "hard-working" or some shit lmfao? We have over three hundred years of capitalist powers butchering whole populations to steal their land and resources - a process still going on to this day. It is intellectually dishonest for Capitalism stans to clutch pearls and shriek about "muh mass murder!!!" when the only reason the West is so prosperous today was through the mass-murder of natives by capitalist empires. You can't even argue that it's not still being done today because what's happening in the Amazon right now is plenty proof that it very much is still happening today.

I have not and would never argue its wrong to kill people my point is that communism sucks at everything else. Capitalism killed a bunch of people and redistributed land and also did everything else good or bad. Sorry about the dead guys, your welcome for the entire modern world.

[Senkaku]

No it doesn't lol.

Capitalism practically invented mass murder. You think Western countries are as wealthy as they are because they're just more "hard-working" or some shit lmfao? We have over three hundred years of capitalist powers butchering whole populations to steal their land and resources - a process still going on to this day. It is intellectually dishonest for Capitalism stans to clutch pearls and shriek about "muh mass murder!!!" when the only reason the West is so prosperous today was through the mass-murder of natives by capitalist empires. You can't even argue that it's not still being done today because what's happening in the Amazon right now is plenty proof that it very much is still happening today.

I have not and would never argue its wrong to kill people my point is that communism sucks at everything else. Capitalism killed a bunch of people and redistributed land and also did everything else good or bad. Sorry about the dead guys, your welcome for the entire modern world.

Communism did manage to give the world an industrialized Russia and European social democracy; acting as if “capitalism” is some coherent ideology with clear political direction that can somehow take credit for technological and political achievements occurring in regions where it’s practiced is sort of bananas

[Sordhau]

No it doesn't lol.

Capitalism practically invented mass murder. You think Western countries are as wealthy as they are because they're just more "hard-working" or some shit lmfao? We have over three hundred years of capitalist powers butchering whole populations to steal their land and resources - a process still going on to this day. It is intellectually dishonest for Capitalism stans to clutch pearls and shriek about "muh mass murder!!!" when the only reason the West is so prosperous today was through the mass-murder of natives by capitalist empires. You can't even argue that it's not still being done today because what's happening in the Amazon right now is plenty proof that it very much is still happening today.

I have not and would never argue its wrong to kill people my point is that communism sucks at everything else. Capitalism killed a bunch of people and redistributed land and also did everything else good or bad. Sorry about the dead guys, your welcome for the entire modern world.

It's kind of hard for "Communism" to suck at anything when it's never been implemented but okay.

Thanking Capitalism for the modern world is idiotic. For one thing the modern world is in a sad, sorry state complete with impending total ecological collapse which will devastate human civilization beyond repair and result in the death and displacement of billions. For another thing, there is nothing that has been invented that could not have been invented without Capitalism. Technological advancement predates Capitalism by millennia and exists independently of it.

[Jewish Underground State]

No see "Well you do X" is whataboutism. I'm saying capitalism I'd unequivocally superior because it works at things other than mass murder.

No it doesn't lol.

Capitalism practically invented mass murder. You think Western countries are as wealthy as they are because they're just more "hard-working" or some shit lmfao? We have over three hundred years of capitalist powers butchering whole populations to steal their land and resources - a process still going on to this day. It is intellectually dishonest for Capitalism stans to clutch pearls and shriek about "muh mass murder!!!" when the only reason the West is so prosperous today was through the mass-murder of natives by capitalist empires. You can't even argue that it's not still being done today because what's happening in the Amazon right now is plenty proof that it very much is still happening today.

You heard of gulags?

Communism puts oligarchies into power that live like billionaires

At least in a capitalist society you would get a chance to be one of them but if you are trying to be one in communist society you'd be sent to a gulag.

[Haganham]

I don't think it's pertinent to the overarching issue whether a person has $500 million as assets, $999 million, or $1 billion. I'm guessing, just maybe, that it's more to do with the massive inequality that we observe alongside it.

It's more to do with how wealth is accumulated. Ideally it's by engaging in activities that make society wealthier. Whether that's by applying work to produce wealth or by forgoing consumption to invest in enterprises that increase the wealth produced by work, or allow new work to be done that was impossible without that level of investment. Profit ought to be the value of output minus expenses.
This isn't how people get rich in our society though. They get rich by exploiting subsidies, evading taxes, stealing wages, IP theft, destroying competition to suppress wages, and defrauding consumers, to run enterprises that destroy wealth, but still make money in the end because they pass on the cost to the public.
We have a society that rewards extraction over production, and while it does mean that we have a problem of a lot of people acquiring wealth they really don't deserve it means we have a much bigger problem; they are destroying the wealth of the nation in the process.

[Sordhau]

You heard of gulags?

Irrelevant, like the rest of your post.

The claim was that Capitalism doesn't lead to ethnic cleansing; which is false. Gulags are also not evidence of ethnic cleansing since they were meant to house political prisoners.

[Des-Bal]

It's kind of hard for "Communism" to suck at anything when it's never been implemented but okay.

Thanking Capitalism for the modern world is idiotic. For one thing the modern world is in a sad, sorry state complete with impending total ecological collapse which will devastate human civilization beyond repair and result in the death and displacement of billions. For another thing, there is nothing that has been invented that could not have been invented without Capitalism. Technological advancement predates Capitalism by millennia and exists independently of it.

Sucking too badly to be effectively implemented isn't a merit.

The world has never been better than it is today there are billions with access to more resources information and culture than has ever been possible in human history. You're alternating between saying capitalism is responsible for nothing and everything depending on whether you like or dislike the thing. Instead of saying capitalism did x say "I'm mad" and it'll carry the same weight. You’re repackaging the same nihilistic cynical luddism that's been regurgitated since the dawn of mankind. You don't have a point you have an unfortunate hiccup in the evolutionary machinery of your brain. The drive to improve is the engine of innovation and it can only be fueled by dissatisfaction which leads you to the incorrect belief that the world is awful.

It's never been easier to live or harder to die and capitalism says your welcome.

[Jewish Underground State]

You heard of gulags?

Irrelevant, like the rest of your post.

The claim was that Capitalism doesn't lead to ethnic cleansing; which is false. Gulags are also not evidence of ethnic cleansing since they were meant to house political prisoners.

You want to talk about ethnic cleansing? What about the Holodomor? Ignoring current events that still was a terror famine.

Then there is Fascism. That failed within a few decades.

[Aephony]

To be fair, it was never about how much money they have and how they got it, it could be inheritance, hard work (not dishonest work), but it's about how they spend it and make an impact with it, mostly all billionaires now aren't really making a life changing impact, they might aim for it, but it still hasn't happened, meanwhile there are actual good ones, like (personally) Bill Gates, even if he has got himself in controversies which I honestly don't know, he made a massive impact with diseases and such.

[Sordhau]

Sucking too badly to be effectively implemented isn't a merit.

I mean there was never an attempt to implement it, so...

The world has never been better than it is today

And?

there are billions with access to more resources information and culture than has ever been possible in human history.

And billions more are denied access to those same things because of Capitalism.

You're alternating between saying capitalism is responsible for nothing and everything depending on whether you like or dislike the thing.

No? Capitalism absolutely built the modern world but to suggest that the modern world would not exist without Capitalism is a bald-faced lie.

You’re repackaging the same nihilistic cynical luddism that's been regurgitated since the dawn of mankind.

I am the exact opposite of a Luddite lmao.

The drive to improve is the engine of innovation and it can only be fueled by dissatisfaction

Congratulations, you just explained why Socialism exists.

It's never been easier to live

I am one missed paycheck away from homelessness.

or harder to die

I literally cannot drink from the tap water because it's practically poison.

and capitalism says your welcome.

Tell the old codger to kick the bucket already. Capitalism had it's fun on this Earth, time for something better to take it's place.

Irrelevant, like the rest of your post.

The claim was that Capitalism doesn't lead to ethnic cleansing; which is false. Gulags are also not evidence of ethnic cleansing since they were meant to house political prisoners.

You want to talk about ethnic cleansing? What about the Holodomor? Ignoring current events that still was a terror famine.

Then there is Fascism. That failed within a few decades.

Is "whataboutism" all you have to offer?

[Jewish Underground State]

Sucking too badly to be effectively implemented isn't a merit.

I mean there was never an attempt to implement it, so...

The world has never been better than it is today

And?

there are billions with access to more resources information and culture than has ever been possible in human history.

And billions more are denied access to those same things because of Capitalism.

You're alternating between saying capitalism is responsible for nothing and everything depending on whether you like or dislike the thing.

No? Capitalism absolutely built the modern world but to suggest that the modern world would not exist without Capitalism is a bald-faced lie.

You’re repackaging the same nihilistic cynical luddism that's been regurgitated since the dawn of mankind.

I am the exact opposite of a Luddite lmao.

The drive to improve is the engine of innovation and it can only be fueled by dissatisfaction

Congratulations, you just explained why Socialism exists.

It's never been easier to live

I am one missed paycheck away from homelessness.

or harder to die

I literally cannot drink from the tap water because it's practically poison.

and capitalism says your welcome.

Tell the old codger to kick the bucket already. Capitalism had it's fun on this Earth, time for something better to take it's place.

You want to talk about ethnic cleansing? What about the Holodomor? Ignoring current events that still was a terror famine.

Then there is Fascism. That failed within a few decades.

Is "whataboutism" all you have to offer?

Then what do you propose to do for solving capitalism's problems?

[Sordhau]

Then what do you propose to do for solving capitalism's problems?

Socialism.

[Jewish Underground State]

Then what do you propose to do for solving capitalism's problems?

Socialism.

Which type?

[Sordhau]

Socialism.

Which type?

Do you understand what Socialism is?

[The United Front Empire]

It's kind of hard for "Communism" to suck at anything when it's never been implemented but okay.

WE DID IT! SOMEONE SAID THE LINE! DING DING DING!

Anyway yes, everyone deserves whatever money they have, it doesn't matter if it's billions. It will be trillions and more if we reach space and expand.

Having that money is not taking it away from anyone else, because either this person has it, or the wealth wouldn't exist.

[Des-Bal]

Sucking too badly to be effectively implemented isn't a merit.

I mean there was never an attempt to implement it, so...

The world has never been better than it is today

And?

there are billions with access to more resources information and culture than has ever been possible in human history.

And billions more are denied access to those same things because of Capitalism.

You're alternating between saying capitalism is responsible for nothing and everything depending on whether you like or dislike the thing.

No? Capitalism absolutely built the modern world but to suggest that the modern world would not exist without Capitalism is a bald-faced lie.

You’re repackaging the same nihilistic cynical luddism that's been regurgitated since the dawn of mankind.

I am the exact opposite of a Luddite lmao.

The drive to improve is the engine of innovation and it can only be fueled by dissatisfaction

Congratulations, you just explained why Socialism exists.

It's never been easier to live

I am one missed paycheck away from homelessness.

or harder to die

I literally cannot drink from the tap water because it's practically poison.

and capitalism says your welcome.

Tell the old codger to kick the bucket already. Capitalism had it's fun on this Earth, time for something better to take it's place.

You want to talk about ethnic cleansing? What about the Holodomor? Ignoring current events that still was a terror famine.

Then there is Fascism. That failed within a few decades.

Is "whataboutism" all you have to offer?

Yes there was it was where the bodies came from.

And the contedt of your gripes is that you are complaining about what is literally the best thing in the universe.

Billions live because of capitalism, this population never existed before nobody is going away shucks that durned capitalism done stole my amcestral 4k streaming and now I'm starving to death.

Okay point to any corner of the world doing every bit as good having never had capitalism.

Oh cool a horseshoe.

Yeah earlier

[It's a fantasy where you murder those you dislike and envy and it fixes the world.

So you're not homeless and if you keep working will not become homeless. Sorry to hear that must be rough. If you do become homeless you'll probably be okay though since it's never been easier to live.

The running water you have access to at any time is practically poison? Technically thats not as as bad as drinking stagnant water that will literally kill you or just not having water. It would suck if you drank something that was almost poison but you'd likely be okay because it's never been harder to die.

If you want the crown be better.

[Jewish Underground State]

Which type?

Do you understand what Socialism is?

I will guess you mean Revolutionary Socialism by looking at your dispatch.

The problem is that transitioning from a capitalist economic structure to a socialist one has flaws. It doesn't matter if the way to seize control of the economy is violent or peaceful, someone is gonna gain too much power in the economy.

Let's assume that a group of workers decide to take control of the economy and make it socialist. Those workers aren't workers anymore since they have control of the economy. They are the new upper class. The book known as Animal Farm does a great job of showing how this works. The pigs went from being like all the other animals to leading the farm and becoming mad with power.

Socialism claims to make everyone equal but forgets how tyrants are put into power.

I have not and would never argue its wrong to kill people my point is that communism sucks at everything else. Capitalism killed a bunch of people and redistributed land and also did everything else good or bad. Sorry about the dead guys, your welcome for the entire modern world.

It's kind of hard for "Communism" to suck at anything when it's never been implemented but okay.

Why has it never been implemented? If it is so great you would think someone would've gotten it by now?

[Alcala-Cordel]

Whataboutism is not a valid argument, and while your claim about communism os demonstratably wrong it's also irrelevant.

No see "Well you do X" is whataboutism. I'm saying capitalism I'd unequivocally superior because it works at things other than mass murder.

what·a·bout·ism
/ˌ(h)wədəˈboudizəm/
noun

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

The thread is supposed to be about billionaires deserving the money they have. To try to justify your argument by claiming that communism is worse rather than making an argument in favor of billionaires or capitalism is absolutely whataboutism. Communism is irrelevant.

[Sordhau]

Yes there was it was where the bodies came from.

No, "the bodies" (whatever this is even referring to) did not come from an attempt to implement Communism because, again, there was no attempt. There was the implementation of a planned economy with Socialist characteristics, which was claimed by the framers to be part of the process that would inevitably lead to Communism. No state has ever attained Communism, nor have they ever claimed to. They have all always claimed to be "working toward Communism"; whether of course they actually were is up for debate. In some cases (coughnorthkoreacough) there is reasonable doubt as to whether they ever intended to work toward it. Others, such as China under Deng and the USSR under Gorbachev, did a 180 and went further Rightward rather than continuing down the Left-wing path.

And the contedt of your gripes is that you are complaining about what is literally the best thing in the universe.

Capitalism is the best thing in the universe? Really? My man if I go to College I will be in debt for the rest of my life. Fuck Capitalism.

Billions live because of capitalism,

Billions more have died because of Capitalism. Capitalism kills more people than it saves my dude. Again, three hundred years and counting of evidence.

this population never existed before nobody is going away shucks that durned capitalism done stole my amcestral 4k streaming and now I'm starving to death.

Are you having a stroke lmao. What even is this.

Okay point to any corner of the world doing every bit as good having never had capitalism.

I can't. The Capitalists destabilized them all.

So you're not homeless and if you keep working will not become homeless.

No, that's Socialism. Under Capitalism you can work and still end up homeless. I'm just luckier than some.

If you do become homeless you'll probably be okay though since it's never been easier to live.

Bro what. Holy shit this is just deranged.

The running water you have access to at any time is practically poison? Technically thats not as as bad as drinking stagnant water that will literally kill you or just not having water. It would suck if you drank something that was almost poison but you'd likely be okay because it's never been harder to die.

Get help. Seriously.

If you want the crown be better.

We're already better my dude. We're not the ones destroying the planet.

Do you understand what Socialism is?

I will guess you mean Revolutionary Socialism by looking at your dispatch.

The problem is that transitioning from a capitalist economic structure to a socialist one has flaws. It doesn't matter if the way to seize control of the economy is violent or peaceful, someone is gonna gain too much power in the economy.

Let's assume that a group of workers decide to take control of the economy and make it socialist. Those workers aren't workers anymore since they have control of the economy. They are the new upper class. The book known as Animal Farm does a great job of showing how this works. The pigs went from being like all the other animals to leading the farm and becoming mad with power.

Socialism claims to make everyone equal but forgets how tyrants are put into power.

So you have no idea what Socialism is. Got it.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Why has it never been implemented? If it is so great you would think someone would've gotten it by now?

It sort of has, but for the most part it's difficult to do so when the most powerful country on the planet thinks it needs to intervene, causing instability and suffering. Then there were other powers like China and the Soviet Union that would force their own ideas on the areas.

Some communists theorize that due to the connectedness of everything capitalism around the world needs to be eliminated before people can truly be free.

[Des-Bal]

what·a·bout·ism
/ˌ(h)wədəˈboudizəm/
noun

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

The thread is supposed to be about billionaires deserving the money they have. To try to justify your argument by claiming that communism is worse rather than making an argument in favor of billionaires or capitalism is absolutely whataboutism. Communism is irrelevant.

Capitalism is also superior to autophagia, i havent mentioned it because its not presented as an alternative. The justification for capitalism is that it works better than any alternative the justification for billionaires is that acquisition requires no justification.

[Nimzonia]

Why has it never been implemented? If it is so great you would think someone would've gotten it by now?

It's never been implemented because the only people who ever tried were inspired by Lenin, and his plan for implementing communism was basically this:

Step 1: Overthrow bourgeoisie.
Step 2: Install transitional "dictatorship of the proletariat" as an intermediate step between capitalism and communism.
Step 3: A miracle happens.
Step 4: Communism.

Obviously, they never got past step 2, because it turns out a "dictatorship of the proletariat" is basically just the same as a regular dictatorship.

[Alcala-Cordel]

The thread is supposed to be about billionaires deserving the money they have. To try to justify your argument by claiming that communism is worse rather than making an argument in favor of billionaires or capitalism is absolutely whataboutism. Communism is irrelevant.

Capitalism is also superior to autophagia, i havent mentioned it because its not presented as an alternative. The justification for capitalism is that it works better than any alternative the justification for billionaires is that acquisition requires no justification.

That's still whataboutism. If you don't want to try to justify the existence of billionaires you're in the wrong thread.

[Major-Tom]

It's not a question of whether people deserve it or not, it's a question of whether or not our economic system is fair because it enables such deep inequality; resulting in billionaires having an unequal amount of power and resources compared to the rest of the population.

[Ashotu]

They should donate to charities.