American Politics XIII: (Un)Lucky For Some

[Tarsonis]

>be me
>Right-winger
>"Socialism doesn't work"
>never explain why or how

Damn, looks like I lost another debate!

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

North Korea still going strong

[Hispida]

the soviets were anti abortion

except the USSR was the first modern country to legalize abortion

anti minority rights

which is why minorities had more representation in the USSR than at any other time in russian history mhm

and very nationalist

the USSR was fundamentally anti-nationalist. this is a stupid take, the USSR was not a nation-state. it was above the ideas of nationalism. "soviet patriotism" was a thing, loyalty to the soviet country, but "soviet nationalism" is fucking stupid because the USSR fundamentally could not be a nationalist state

>be me
>Right-winger
>"Socialism doesn't work"
>never explain why or how

Damn, looks like I lost another debate!

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

it actually is working great in cuba and venezuela's failures are entirely due to it being a petrol-state

[Tarsonis]

Nah, social democracy works. socialism doesn't.

>be me
>Right-winger
>"Socialism doesn't work"
>never explain why or how

Damn, looks like I lost another debate!

k I'll debate like you.

Lol. Lmao even.

[Vassenor]

And your solution is to hand the keys to the people who want to do that to do so entirely unchecked?

No, my solution is to replace the useless people who aren't stopping them, anyway, from blocking the people who would defeat them. The Republicans are already unchecked. They're just using the States and the Courts to get their way. Biden is a joke. The Democratic Party is a failed party machine that only exists to block the left, not the Republicans. That's all that they even wish to do.

And what will your hypothetical third party stand for? How will it get back the rights taken away?

[Sordhau]

1. juche isn't socialist
2. it's almost like ideologies evolve over time. friendly reminder that the RSFSR was the first country to de facto legalize homosexuality and transgender rights (although they were never codified) and soviet scientists declared that homosexuality was "perfectly natural and should be legally and socially respected" as early as 1925

sure stalin's government went back on that but it's not like everything stalin did was morally correct. the dude wasn't an unfaltering paragon and, surprise surprise, did wrong things. and it's not like stalin did this against the population's will, by 1930 the vast majority of the USSR's citizenry was overwhelmingly anti-gay. not that it was the right stance, but it was the stance of the population.

On top of being anti gay and anti transgender, the soviets were anti abortion, anti minority rights, and very nationalist. Im just not convinced that the soviet union was a left wing state, culturally.

The USSR was unfathomably based.

But it was also very misguided as it was built on the ruins of a highly conservative imperial society that, unsurprisingly, held highly conservative imperialist views. Socialism unfortunately isn't a magic wand that can make bad attitudes go away.

>be me
>Right-winger
>"Socialism doesn't work"
>never explain why or how

Damn, looks like I lost another debate!

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

Cuba has been under U.S. embargo for 70 years.

Venezuela bet it's entire economy on the oil industry.

The state of these countries is not the fault of Socialism by any metric.

[Tarsonis]

the soviets were anti abortion

except the USSR was the first modern country to legalize abortion

anti minority rights

which is why minorities had more representation in the USSR than at any other time in russian history mhm

and very nationalist

the USSR was fundamentally anti-nationalist. this is a stupid take, the USSR was not a nation-state. it was above the ideas of nationalism. "soviet patriotism" was a thing, loyalty to the soviet country, but "soviet nationalism" is fucking stupid because the USSR fundamentally could not be a nationalist state

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

it actually is working great in cuba and venezuela's failures are entirely due to it being a petrol-state

of course it works great. Being held at gunpoint motivates people to accept a lot of things.

[Vassenor]

On top of being anti gay and anti transgender, the soviets were anti abortion, anti minority rights, and very nationalist. Im just not convinced that the soviet union was a left wing state, culturally.

The USSR was unfathomably based.

But it was also very misguided as it was built on the ruins of a highly conservative imperial society that, unsurprisingly, held highly conservative imperialist views. Socialism unfortunately isn't a magic wand that can make bad attitudes go away.

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

Cuba has been under U.S. embargo for 70 years.

Venezuela bet it's entire economy on the oil industry.

The state of these countries is not the fault of Socialism by any metric.

Venezuela has also been heavily sanctioned by the US for the crime of being an oil-producing country not under the thumb of Standard Oil.

[Tarsonis]

On top of being anti gay and anti transgender, the soviets were anti abortion, anti minority rights, and very nationalist. Im just not convinced that the soviet union was a left wing state, culturally.

The USSR was unfathomably based.

But it was also very misguided as it was built on the ruins of a highly conservative imperial society that, unsurprisingly, held highly conservative imperialist views. Socialism unfortunately isn't a magic wand that can make bad attitudes go away.

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

Cuba has been under U.S. embargo for 70 years.

Venezuela bet it's entire economy on the oil industry.

The state of these countries is not the fault of Socialism by any metric.

Oil is the most profitable commodity in the world right now. Why is Venezuela still starving?

[The Jamesian Republic]

The USSR was unfathomably based.

But it was also very misguided as it was built on the ruins of a highly conservative imperial society that, unsurprisingly, held highly conservative imperialist views. Socialism unfortunately isn't a magic wand that can make bad attitudes go away.



Cuba has been under U.S. embargo for 70 years.

Venezuela bet it's entire economy on the oil industry.

The state of these countries is not the fault of Socialism by any metric.

Venezuela has also been heavily sanctioned by the US for the crime of being an oil-producing country not under the thumb of Standard Oil.

Also Cuba has been under embargo for about 60 years.

[Catholic America]

the soviets were anti abortion

except the USSR was the first modern country to legalize abortion
the immediately criminalize it in 1936.

anti minority rights

which is why minorities had more representation in the USSR than at any other time in russian history mhm
Sure sure, holding minorities in the SSRs hostage to moscow, not giving them representation in the politburo (they did get supreme soviet seats but the supreme soviet didnt do much) and killing 4 million of them in ukraine are all very pro minority.

and very nationalist

the USSR was fundamentally anti-nationalist. this is a stupid take, the USSR was not a nation-state. it was above the ideas of nationalism. "soviet patriotism" was a thing, loyalty to the soviet country, but "soviet nationalism" is fucking stupid because the USSR fundamentally could not be a nationalist state

There are a lot of things the soviets were allegedly fundamentally against, then they turned around and did it anyway.

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

it actually is working great in cuba and venezuela's failures are entirely due to it being a petrol-state

Yep, gas sucks, we all agree there, no need to argue.

[Hispida]

except the USSR was the first modern country to legalize abortion


which is why minorities had more representation in the USSR than at any other time in russian history mhm


the USSR was fundamentally anti-nationalist. this is a stupid take, the USSR was not a nation-state. it was above the ideas of nationalism. "soviet patriotism" was a thing, loyalty to the soviet country, but "soviet nationalism" is fucking stupid because the USSR fundamentally could not be a nationalist state


it actually is working great in cuba and venezuela's failures are entirely due to it being a petrol-state

of course it works great. Being held at gunpoint motivates people to accept a lot of things.

cuba has a higher literacy rate than the US and is generally considered the world's most sustainable developing economy with low housing and transportation costs and succeeding planned collectives despite being under imperialist embargo for 60 years

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

the USSR was fundamentally anti-nationalist. this is a stupid take, the USSR was not a nation-state. it was above the ideas of nationalism. "soviet patriotism" was a thing, loyalty to the soviet country, but "soviet nationalism" is fucking stupid because the USSR fundamentally could not be a nationalist state

This is fundamentally valid but there was still a very strong undercurrent of Russian ethnonationalism in the USSR. That sort of shit probably lead to Poland being treated little better than Congress Poland until Gomulka and Chruschjev.

[Catholic America]

The USSR was unfathomably based.

But it was also very misguided as it was built on the ruins of a highly conservative imperial society that, unsurprisingly, held highly conservative imperialist views. Socialism unfortunately isn't a magic wand that can make bad attitudes go away.



Cuba has been under U.S. embargo for 70 years.

Venezuela bet it's entire economy on the oil industry.

The state of these countries is not the fault of Socialism by any metric.

Venezuela has also been heavily sanctioned by the US for the crime of being an oil-producing country not under the thumb of Standard Oil.

I had no idea standard oil existed in 1993

[Sordhau]

It worked great in cuba! and Venuzuela.

North Korea still going strong

North Korea is a Fascist Monarchy my dude. Their commitment to Leftist ideals was always questionable, even under Kim Il-Sung.

>be me
>Right-winger
>"Socialism doesn't work"
>never explain why or how

Damn, looks like I lost another debate!

k I'll debate like you.

Lol. Lmao even.

I mean if you want to explain why and how Socialism "fails" feel free to do so because every time I hear "Socialism doesn't work" and I ask why, I just get "well [x] country is bad/doesn't exist anymore and it calls/called itself Socialist so it must be because of Socialism!" with no actual explanation for why and how Socialism was responsible.

The burden of proof is on you, my dude. You're making the claim that Socialism doesn't work. You need more than an inability to distinguish between correlation and causation.

[The Jamesian Republic]

of course it works great. Being held at gunpoint motivates people to accept a lot of things.

cuba has a higher literacy rate than the US and is generally considered the world's most sustainable developing economy with low housing and transportation costs and succeeding planned collectives despite being under imperialist embargo for 60 years

That’s merely just opium for the Cuban masses. They don’t have civil or political rights there.

[Catholic America]

North Korea still going strong

North Korea is a Fascist Monarchy my dude. Their commitment to Leftist ideals was always questionable, even under Kim Il-Sung.

k I'll debate like you.

Lol. Lmao even.

I mean if you want to explain why and how Socialism "fails" feel free to do so because every time I hear "Socialism doesn't work" and I ask why, I just get "well [x] country is bad/doesn't exist anymore and it calls/called itself Socialist so it must be because of Socialism!" with no actual explanation for why and how Socialism was responsible.

The burden of proof is on you, my dude. You're making the claim that Socialism doesn't work. You need more than an inability to distinguish between correlation and causation.

Lets talk about socialism in europe. How come people were so desperate to get out of socialism that they would throw themselves at a fortress? Why were people in poland so pissed off at socialism all the time? Why did life under these socialist systems just generally suck?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Oil is the most profitable commodity in the world right now. Why is Venezuela still starving?

If venezuela wasnt socialist it'd literally be like the UAE. Complete with chattel slavery.
Now it's merely horribly corrupt.
See Oil Curse.

[Hispida]

Venezuela has also been heavily sanctioned by the US for the crime of being an oil-producing country not under the thumb of Standard Oil.

I had no idea standard oil existed in 1993

standard oil, in a metaphorical sense, does still exist --- but you know it now as exxonmobil, chevron, BP, sunoco, conocophillips, and marathon

these are all either literal successor companies or larger oil companies that bought standard oil's successor companies

[The Jamesian Republic]

Oil is the most profitable commodity in the world right now. Why is Venezuela still starving?

If venezuela wasnt socialist it'd literally be like the UAE. Complete with chattel slavery.
Now it's merely horribly corrupt.
See Oil Curse.

So Venezuela is doomed either way because of oil?

[Ifreann]

American politics, you say?

[Catholic America]

I had no idea standard oil existed in 1993

standard oil, in a metaphorical sense, does still exist --- but you know it now as exxonmobil, chevron, BP, sunoco, conocophillips, and marathon

these are all either literal successor companies or larger oil companies that bought standard oil's successor companies

Well I actually think that mobil and exxon merging was a tad sus, but the oil industry is failing in the US, and I would pull your stock as soon as possible. They also just dont have the lobbying power they used to.

[Hispida]

North Korea still going strong

North Korea is a Fascist Monarchy my dude. Their commitment to Leftist ideals was always questionable, even under Kim Il-Sung.

north korea:

- ultramilitarism
- dedication to traditional family roles
- idealizes ancient korean states
- palingenetic ultranationalism
- literally advocates for korean racial purity

"but it's socialist!"

[Catholic America]

North Korea is a Fascist Monarchy my dude. Their commitment to Leftist ideals was always questionable, even under Kim Il-Sung.

north korea:

- ultramilitarism
- dedication to traditional family roles
- idealizes ancient korean states
- palingenetic ultranationalism
- literally advocates for korean racial purity

"but it's socialist!"

No they arnt really.

[Hispida]

American politics, you say?

right, right.

*taps mic, mic peaks*

so what's the deal with inflation?

i mean, one minute you've got one dollar, and another minute you've got 50 cents! i don't remember buying tickets!

thank you, thank you, i'll be here all night.

[Celritannia]

Remember kids, strikes help promote better working conditions for the employees.

If you support better services, support better wages. Support industrial action.