American Politics XIII: (Un)Lucky For Some

[Celritannia]

Listen chum, I've been left wing since I was 16, I don't need some recent convert of left wing principles telling me what I am or what I am not.

By your own confession you're not Left-wing, so you'll forgive me if I doubt you ever were to begin with as a consequence.

The Left does not exist to "restrain" Capitalism. The Left exists to destroy Capitalism. I don't care how long you *think* you've been a Leftist. Even when I was anti-Left I still knew what the Left stood for. Don't try and pull the seniority card on me, SocDem.

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

[Tarsonis]

Parties should focus on purely economic issues and then let their individual candidates decide what social issues they want to back or campaign against. So that way, if for example your economically left, you can get both the economically left and socially liberal and the economically left in the socially conservative under your wing versus only getting socially liberal parts of economically left or the socially conservative parts.

Never trust people who claim to be economically left and socially anything else.

you trust people?

[Thermodolia]

Which, tbh, I do like.

So do I, but I'm a social Democrat, not a Socialist. And honestly, it seems thw Socialist party of Portugal is really a social democracy party. so that's cool

That’s the case with a lot of “socialist” parties in Europe. They are socialist only in name, take Parti Socialiste in France which is actually social Democratic but just kept the name.

[Thermodolia]

Never trust people who claim to be economically left and socially anything else.

you trust people?

Not anyone from NS

[American Legionaries]

you trust people?

Not anyone from NS

Pretty sure NSG is just the voices in my head.

[Thermodolia]

Not anyone from NS

Pretty sure NSG is just the voices in my head.

“Buy more guns, and give them all to Therm”

[American Legionaries]

Pretty sure NSG is just the voices in my head.

“Buy more guns, and give them all to Therm”

Some of the voices are stupid...

[Blargoblarg]

By your own confession you're not Left-wing, so you'll forgive me if I doubt you ever were to begin with as a consequence.

The Left does not exist to "restrain" Capitalism. The Left exists to destroy Capitalism. I don't care how long you *think* you've been a Leftist. Even when I was anti-Left I still knew what the Left stood for. Don't try and pull the seniority card on me, SocDem.

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

You can call yourself left-wing all you want, but if you don't want to end capitalism you're not actually left-wing.

[American Legionaries]

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

You can call yourself left-wing all you want, but if you don't want to end capitalism you're not actually left-wing.

Real right wingers want to end capitalism too...

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

social democrats are widely considered center-left. by saying "you aren't leftist if you don't want to violently overthrow capitalism", you are actively alienating the majority of your potential allies. socialism is still a small ideology in the US.

[Umeria]

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

You can call yourself left-wing all you want, but if you don't want to end capitalism you're not actually left-wing.

Ideologies are not static lists of policies, they are shaped by history and present circumstances. In the world we currently live in the only way to meaningfully oppose the corporate oligarchy is via mass movements & unionization. So anyone who wishes to join that fight is on the left regardless of what economic system they would prefer in a hypothetical utopian society.

[Tarsonis]

By your own confession you're not Left-wing, so you'll forgive me if I doubt you ever were to begin with as a consequence.

The Left does not exist to "restrain" Capitalism. The Left exists to destroy Capitalism. I don't care how long you *think* you've been a Leftist. Even when I was anti-Left I still knew what the Left stood for. Don't try and pull the seniority card on me, SocDem.

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

First you must seek the left wing keymaster

[Sordhau]

By your own confession you're not Left-wing, so you'll forgive me if I doubt you ever were to begin with as a consequence.

The Left does not exist to "restrain" Capitalism. The Left exists to destroy Capitalism. I don't care how long you *think* you've been a Leftist. Even when I was anti-Left I still knew what the Left stood for. Don't try and pull the seniority card on me, SocDem.

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

This isn't revolutionary France where any republican secularist is a Leftist; this is the modern era, where the Left-wing is defined explicitly by anti-capitalism and has been since the late 19th century. You are, at most, Center-Left. Certainly not a Socialist by any measure. The struggle of the Left-wing is one against oppressive hierarchies in which those at the top benefit at the expense of those at the bottom; this includes Capitalism. It doesn't matter how much you water it down - the exploitation is still there. To be a Leftist is to understand this and to oppose it. You refuse to oppose it; ergo you are not a Leftist. I'm not gatekeeping shit. I am using the proper fucking definitions. Bury your head in the sand all you like, it changes nothing.

You can call yourself left-wing all you want, but if you don't want to end capitalism you're not actually left-wing.

Real right wingers want to end capitalism too...

Only if you consider Fascists to be "real Right-wingers".

social democrats are widely considered center-left. by saying "you aren't leftist if you don't want to violently overthrow capitalism", you are actively alienating the majority of your potential allies. socialism is still a small ideology in the US.

Social Democrats are not our allies. They fight in the defense of Capitalism, not in opposition to it. They are not our comrades; we have no reason to appeal to them.

You can call yourself left-wing all you want, but if you don't want to end capitalism you're not actually left-wing.

Ideologies are not static lists of policies, they are shaped by history and present circumstances. In the world we currently live in the only way to meaningfully oppose the corporate oligarchy is via mass movements & unionization. So anyone who wishes to join that fight is on the left regardless of what economic system they would prefer in a hypothetical utopian society.

Fascists are apparently Leftists now. Apparently Leftist is so meaningless as a term that anybody who doesn't like the government is now a Leftist.

Excuse me while I scream into the fucking void.

[Salus Maior]

This isn't revolutionary France where any republican secularist is a Leftist; this is the modern era, where the Left-wing is defined explicitly by anti-capitalism and has been since the late 19th century. You are, at most, Center-Left. Certainly not a Socialist by any measure. The struggle of the Left-wing is one against oppressive hierarchies in which those at the top benefit at the expense of those at the bottom; this includes Capitalism. It doesn't matter how much you water it down - the exploitation is still there. To be a Leftist is to understand this and to oppose it. You refuse to oppose it; ergo you are not a Leftist. I'm not gatekeeping shit. I am using the proper fucking definitions. Bury your head in the sand all you like, it changes nothing.

No, you really are just gatekeeping.

I mean, the Left isn't just revolutionary Marxists. Nobody considers that to be the exclusive term for the Left.

[Forsher]

I see this thread is trying to gatekeep left wing into vacuous jargon incapable of conveying meaning again.

[Sordhau]

This isn't revolutionary France where any republican secularist is a Leftist; this is the modern era, where the Left-wing is defined explicitly by anti-capitalism and has been since the late 19th century. You are, at most, Center-Left. Certainly not a Socialist by any measure. The struggle of the Left-wing is one against oppressive hierarchies in which those at the top benefit at the expense of those at the bottom; this includes Capitalism. It doesn't matter how much you water it down - the exploitation is still there. To be a Leftist is to understand this and to oppose it. You refuse to oppose it; ergo you are not a Leftist. I'm not gatekeeping shit. I am using the proper fucking definitions. Bury your head in the sand all you like, it changes nothing.

No, you really are just gatekeeping.

I mean, the Left isn't just revolutionary Marxists. Nobody considers that to be the exclusive term for the Left.

That's neat. I never said Revolutionary Marxists are the only Leftists though, so maybe get that strawman out of my face?

[American Legionaries]

Don't tell me I am not left wing when I am.
Not all people on the left wing spectrum want to remove capitalism, they want it to be regulated or become cooperatives.
Small businesses need to be cooperatives.

The left does not solely exist to destroy capitalism.

So never tell me I am left wing when I have been for a long time. You are not the left wing gatekeeper.

This isn't revolutionary France where any republican secularist is a Leftist; this is the modern era, where the Left-wing is defined explicitly by anti-capitalism and has been since the late 19th century. You are, at most, Center-Left. Certainly not a Socialist by any measure. The struggle of the Left-wing is one against oppressive hierarchies in which those at the top benefit at the expense of those at the bottom; this includes Capitalism. It doesn't matter how much you water it down - the exploitation is still there. To be a Leftist is to understand this and to oppose it. You refuse to oppose it; ergo you are not a Leftist. I'm not gatekeeping shit. I am using the proper fucking definitions. Bury your head in the sand all you like, it changes nothing.

Real right wingers want to end capitalism too...

Only if you consider Fascists to be "real Right-wingers".

social democrats are widely considered center-left. by saying "you aren't leftist if you don't want to violently overthrow capitalism", you are actively alienating the majority of your potential allies. socialism is still a small ideology in the US.

Social Democrats are not our allies. They fight in the defense of Capitalism, not in opposition to it. They are not our comrades; we have no reason to appeal to them.

Ideologies are not static lists of policies, they are shaped by history and present circumstances. In the world we currently live in the only way to meaningfully oppose the corporate oligarchy is via mass movements & unionization. So anyone who wishes to join that fight is on the left regardless of what economic system they would prefer in a hypothetical utopian society.

Fascists are apparently Leftists now. Apparently Leftist is so meaningless as a term that anybody who doesn't like the government is now a Leftist.

Excuse me while I scream into the fucking void.

Fascism has existed as a coherent ideology since the early 20th century, you really think 99% of human history is dominated by capitalists?

[Forsher]

Fascism has existed as a coherent ideology since the early 20th century, you really think 99% of human history is dominated by capitalists?

By the way they define leftism, they might very well think that.

Use stupid definitions, get stupid results.

[Salus Maior]

No, you really are just gatekeeping.

I mean, the Left isn't just revolutionary Marxists. Nobody considers that to be the exclusive term for the Left.

That's neat. I never said Revolutionary Marxists are the only Leftists though, so maybe get that strawman out of my face?

Whatever. Revolutionary Socialists, whatever you want to call it.

[Salus Maior]

Fascism has existed as a coherent ideology since the early 20th century, you really think 99% of human history is dominated by capitalists?

I wouldn't call Fascism very coherent.

[Umeria]

Ideologies are not static lists of policies, they are shaped by history and present circumstances. In the world we currently live in the only way to meaningfully oppose the corporate oligarchy is via mass movements & unionization. So anyone who wishes to join that fight is on the left regardless of what economic system they would prefer in a hypothetical utopian society.

Fascists are apparently Leftists now. Apparently Leftist is so meaningless as a term that anybody who doesn't like the government is now a Leftist.

Excuse me while I scream into the fucking void.

I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote. Fascists don't oppose the corporate oligarchy. Not everyone who dislikes the government dislikes the power structure behind it.

[Tarsonis]

I see this thread is trying to gatekeep left wing into vacuous jargon incapable of conveying meaning again.

the key master is lost, nobody knows to do

[American Legionaries]

Fascism has existed as a coherent ideology since the early 20th century, you really think 99% of human history is dominated by capitalists?

I wouldn't call Fascism very coherent.

It is coherent to some degree.

[The United Front Empire]

Here's to hoping Republicans continue to kick out neocons and RINOs and remake the party on legitimate conservative values.

All they need to do is ask each Dem candidate they are competing against "Can only women get pregnant?" and they will wipe the elections.

[Neutraligon]

Okay I am obviously pro striking but Governmnet employees literally have the best benefits and pay on the market. They get paid between 48K-80K depending and yearly raises with the rate of inflation, paid sick, parental, and vacation, tax free savings accounts, pension retirement plans, comprehensive health insurance at barely any cost, they normally pay off student loans or give you the cost of your tuition back.

https://careers.amtrak.com/content/Bene ... cale=en_US

I honestly don't see what they are striking for? Literally the Public sector has it good!

And how much does the equivalent make outside of government? Are the benefits good, yes, but the pay tends to be lower than what they would make outside.