Another Mass Shooting...In Norway

[Shrillland]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, 2 people were killed and 21 more wounded after an Iranian-Norwegian Islamic extremist opened fire in the famous London Pub, a celebrated gay nightclub, in Oslo.

Another terrorist attack against people just wanting to live their lives. I will not succumb to outright Islamophobia, I will, however, say, that this is a terrible case of religious extremism that actually could've been prevented as the PST knew the man had mental health issues and was in Islamist circles for seven years before this morning. In addition, Norwegian Police services, traditionally unarmed, will now be armed until further notice(this happened after the Oslo attack 10 years ago as well, and the police were disarmed when things calmed down).

There's my take, how about yours? This will be a place to share news and info, etc.

[Sordhau]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet,

It's outside America so no one cares. After all, "we're the only country where this happens".

I will not succumb to outright Islamophobia,

Then I will. The Islamic religion celebrates and encourages violence against nonbelievers. It's own prophet was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword so holy war has all the precedent in the world for Islam. No other (living) religion has that same precedent.

[Saiwania]

Is there any news going into what firearms were used in the incident? Depending on how or what happened, it'd answer questions about gun control. So far as who wins and who loses within Norway.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, 2 people were killed and 21 more wounded after an Iranian-Norwegian Islamic extremist opened fire in the famous London Pub, a celebrated gay nightclub, in Oslo.

Another terrorist attack against people just wanting to live their lives. I will not succumb to outright Islamophobia, I will, however, say, that this is a terrible case of religious extremism that actually could've been prevented as Norwegian intelligence had known the man had mental health issues and was in Islamist circles for seven years before this morning. In addition, Norwegian Police services, traditionally unarmed, will now be armed until further notice(this happened after the Oslo attack 10 years ago as well, and the police were disarmed when things calmed down).

There's my take, how about yours? This will be a place to share news and info, etc.

The sad reality is that if something like this happens outside the US, the media doesn't give a damn about it as it can't be used to push an agenda. Hopefully, nobody else dies as a result of this incident and everyone has a safe and speedy recovery.

Then I will. The Islamic religion celebrates and encourages violence against nonbelievers. It's own prophet was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword so holy war has all the precedent in the world for Islam. No other (living) religion has that same precedent.

Will not argue against anything you said here.

[Vassenor]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet,

It's outside America so no one cares. After all, "we're the only country where this happens".

I will not succumb to outright Islamophobia,

Then I will. The Islamic religion celebrates and encourages violence against nonbelievers. It's own prophet was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword so holy war has all the precedent in the world for Islam. No other (living) religion has that same precedent.

Ignore the bits of the Quran that explicitly say that spreading it by the sword is un-Islamic. And all the violent spreading done by Christians throughout history.

[Fartsniffage]

It's outside America so no one cares. After all, "we're the only country where this happens".



Then I will. The Islamic religion celebrates and encourages violence against nonbelievers. It's own prophet was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword so holy war has all the precedent in the world for Islam. No other (living) religion has that same precedent.

Ignore the bits of the Quran that explicitly say that spreading it by the sword is un-Islamic. And all the violent spreading done by Christians throughout history.

Christians ignore the bible, muslims ignore the quran. It's a thing with fundamentalists.

[Paddy O Fernature]

It's outside America so no one cares. After all, "we're the only country where this happens".



Then I will. The Islamic religion celebrates and encourages violence against nonbelievers. It's own prophet was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword so holy war has all the precedent in the world for Islam. No other (living) religion has that same precedent.

Ignore the bits of the Quran that explicitly say that spreading it by the sword is un-Islamic. And all the violent spreading done by Christians throughout history.

Call us back when Christians start another Crusade. Then you might be able to use them as a scapegoat here and not make a fucking stupid comparison like you currently are.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I saw this on reddit earlier today but didnt get around to making an OP about it as i was a bit busy. I really hope none of the wounded die and they can all make a recovery, rip to the two people that lost their lives to this fucking wackjob islamist.

[Risottia]

The sad reality is that if something like this happens outside the US, the US media doesn't give a damn

Fixed.
It was reported by all news media all over Europe.
Anwyay, considering how most likely in the same day the US had something in the range of ten gun deaths, I guess that news of killings in a small country far away aren't that interesting to American media.

[Sordhau]

Ignore the bits of the Quran that explicitly say that spreading it by the sword is un-Islamic. And all the violent spreading done by Christians throughout history.

Call us back when Christians start another Crusade. Then you might be able to use them as a scapegoat here and not make a fucking stupid comparison like you currently are.

Never mind that it's missing the point entirely. For the first 700/800-ish years of it's existence holy war was not a thing in Christianity. This didn't change until Charlemagne warred against the pagan Saxons, and even then this war was in retaliation of attacks on Frankish territory by Saxon raiders. This trend of 'holy retaliation' continues up until the crusades.

Jesus didn't wage or call for holy war. Neither did Abraham or Moses. Neither did Zoroaster or Buddha. Muhammad and Muhammad alone stands as the only prophetic figure of a modern religion who was simultaneously a warlord who told his followers to spread the faith which, given his own violent example, meant holy war was inevitable. Whether the Qur'an itself condemns holy war is irrelevant; Muhammad set a precedent, and as prophet his actions can't be ignored - which leads to the conundrum of whether or not it is right for Muslims to emulate or condemn their own prophet. The former seems more acceptable than the latter, however.

Never mind that the Hadiths also support holy war, and rejecting the Hadiths is to Islam what rejecting the Church Fathers is to Christianity. You can do it, sure, but you're probably a heretic if you do.

[Saiwania]

The Islamic religion celebrates and encourages violence against nonbelievers. It's own prophet was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword so holy war has all the precedent in the world for Islam. No other (living) religion has that same precedent.

For better or worse, Islam isn't going anywhere because its too big of an established religion. The world is stuck with it. But the silver lining is that there are plenty of Muslims out there who aren't fundamentalists or otherwise keen on interfering very much with non-Muslims. It is a "hearts and minds" approach the developed western world has to master.

Some studies seem to indicate that abolishing polgamy is key to changing the dynamic where joining terrorist groups is appealing. There are Muslim countries where polygamy is voluntarily banned or more limited, despite the religion traditionally allowing for up to 4 wives. There is consensus that there are more downsides than benefits to polygamy and that it is rare globally speaking, mostly confined to a few regions. When it is tried, we're seeing bad results- so it is abolished in due time.

So there is hope for Muslim world becoming more stable over time and coexisting peacefully. I'd say it is time to leave Middle East alone, if ISIS is gone and things are looking up.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

Ignore the bits of the Quran that explicitly say that spreading it by the sword is un-Islamic. And all the violent spreading done by Christians throughout history.

Christians ignore the bible, muslims ignore the quran. It's a thing with fundamentalists.

then they aren’t actually christian or muslim.

[Myrensis]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, 2 people were killed and 21 more wounded after an Iranian-Norwegian Islamic extremist opened fire in the famous London Pub, a celebrated gay nightclub, in Oslo.

Another terrorist attack against people just wanting to live their lives. I will not succumb to outright Islamophobia, I will, however, say, that this is a terrible case of religious extremism that actually could've been prevented as Norwegian intelligence had known the man had mental health issues and was in Islamist circles for seven years before this morning. In addition, Norwegian Police services, traditionally unarmed, will now be armed until further notice(this happened after the Oslo attack 10 years ago as well, and the police were disarmed when things calmed down).

There's my take, how about yours? This will be a place to share news and info, etc.

The sad reality is that if something like this happens outside the US, the media doesn't give a damn about it as it can't be used to push an agenda. Hopefully, nobody else dies as a result of this incident and everyone has a safe and speedy recovery.

The sad reality is that the media doesn't give a damn because as far as their target audience is concerned America is the center of the universe and anything happening anywhere else is really only relevant if it might somehow affect America.

Which is ironic because in most places in the world a mass shooting is actually newsworthy, whereas in America it's just "Tuesday".

[Betoni]

Call us back when Christians start another Crusade. Then you might be able to use them as a scapegoat here and not make a fucking stupid comparison like you currently are.

Never mind that it's missing the point entirely. For the first 700/800-ish years of it's existence holy war was not a thing in Christianity. This didn't change until Charlemagne warred against the pagan Saxons, and even then this war was in retaliation of attacks on Frankish territory by Saxon raiders. This trend of 'holy retaliation' continues up until the crusades.

Jesus didn't wage or call for holy war. Neither did Abraham or Moses. Neither did Zoroaster or Buddha. Muhammad and Muhammad alone stands as the only prophetic figure of a modern religion who was simultaneously a warlord who told his followers to spread the faith which, given his own violent example, meant holy war was inevitable. Whether the Qur'an itself condemns holy war is irrelevant; Muhammad set a precedent, and as prophet his actions can't be ignored - which leads to the conundrum of whether or not it is right for Muslims to emulate or condemn their own prophet. The former seems more acceptable than the latter, however.

Never mind that the Hadiths also support holy war, and rejecting the Hadiths is to Islam what rejecting the Church Fathers is to Christianity. You can do it, sure, but you're probably a heretic if you do.

Religions kill as much people as guns do.

[Duvniask]

Never mind that it's missing the point entirely. For the first 700/800-ish years of it's existence holy war was not a thing in Christianity. This didn't change until Charlemagne warred against the pagan Saxons, and even then this war was in retaliation of attacks on Frankish territory by Saxon raiders. This trend of 'holy retaliation' continues up until the crusades.

Jesus didn't wage or call for holy war. Neither did Abraham or Moses. Neither did Zoroaster or Buddha. Muhammad and Muhammad alone stands as the only prophetic figure of a modern religion who was simultaneously a warlord who told his followers to spread the faith which, given his own violent example, meant holy war was inevitable. Whether the Qur'an itself condemns holy war is irrelevant; Muhammad set a precedent, and as prophet his actions can't be ignored - which leads to the conundrum of whether or not it is right for Muslims to emulate or condemn their own prophet. The former seems more acceptable than the latter, however.

Never mind that the Hadiths also support holy war, and rejecting the Hadiths is to Islam what rejecting the Church Fathers is to Christianity. You can do it, sure, but you're probably a heretic if you do.

Religions kill as much people as guns do.

If we're going to deny there being any link between religious belief and action, then such beliefs must by implication be trivial, window dressing and mere excuses. If you are religious this would put you in quite the predicament, since it seems to suggest faith holds no actual import at all - and further, there is no reason this should be limited merely to acts of violence.

That is, if I understood what you're saying correctly. It seems like you're doing the classic "guns don't kill people, people do".

[Duvniask]

Call us back when Christians start another Crusade. Then you might be able to use them as a scapegoat here and not make a fucking stupid comparison like you currently are.

Never mind that it's missing the point entirely. For the first 700/800-ish years of it's existence holy war was not a thing in Christianity. This didn't change until Charlemagne warred against the pagan Saxons, and even then this war was in retaliation of attacks on Frankish territory by Saxon raiders. This trend of 'holy retaliation' continues up until the crusades.

Jesus didn't wage or call for holy war. Neither did Abraham or Moses. Neither did Zoroaster or Buddha. Muhammad and Muhammad alone stands as the only prophetic figure of a modern religion who was simultaneously a warlord who told his followers to spread the faith which, given his own violent example, meant holy war was inevitable. Whether the Qur'an itself condemns holy war is irrelevant; Muhammad set a precedent, and as prophet his actions can't be ignored - which leads to the conundrum of whether or not it is right for Muslims to emulate or condemn their own prophet. The former seems more acceptable than the latter, however.

Never mind that the Hadiths also support holy war, and rejecting the Hadiths is to Islam what rejecting the Church Fathers is to Christianity. You can do it, sure, but you're probably a heretic if you do.

I don't suppose slaying the enemies of Gods chosen people in order that you may take for yourself the promised land, with God's full blessing, is "holy war", then?

[Big Jim P]

Two dead is not a mass shooting by current American definitions.

[Kerwa]

I don’t blame Islam. All these things: Islam, Incel, white supremacy, John Lennon etc; are at most pretexts for the killer, not the ultimate cause.

It’s a wider societal problem which no-one wants to deal with because by admitting it - maybe - they won’t be the good guys anymore.

And it’s more than just shootings, shootings are simply the one that gets noticed the most.

[Shrillland]

Two dead is not a mass shooting by current American definitions.

Yes it is. DOJ definitions say that it happens when more than three people are shot, and nearly two dozen were shot in this case.

[Big Jim P]

I don’t blame Islam. All these things: Islam, Incel, white supremacy, John Lennon etc; are at most pretexts for the killer, not the ultimate cause.

It’s a wider societal problem which no-one wants to deal with because by admitting it - maybe - they won’t be the good guys anymore.

And it’s more than just shootings, shootings are simply the one that gets noticed the most.

What would you say is the wider societal problem?

[Great Heathen Air Force]

Two dead is not a mass shooting by current American definitions.

Yes it is. DOJ definitions say that it happens when more than three people are shot, and nearly two dozen were shot in this case.

I mean sure, but like this would barely even make the news in Chicago.

[Grinning Dragon]

Ignore the bits of the Quran that explicitly say that spreading it by the sword is un-Islamic. And all the violent spreading done by Christians throughout history.

Call us back when Christians start another Crusade. Then you might be able to use them as a scapegoat here and not make a fucking stupid comparison like you currently are.

Well actually I, Saint Grinning Dragon Pius the Lord Emperor of the Universe I, has decreed a new holy war, the road to Jerusalem is fraught with thieves, heretics, heathens and infidels.
Come Templar brothers, to swords, shields, tanks and machine guns. In Hoc Signo Vinces, Dues Vult!

[Paddy O Fernature]

Call us back when Christians start another Crusade. Then you might be able to use them as a scapegoat here and not make a fucking stupid comparison like you currently are.

Well actually I, Saint Grinning Dragon Pius the Lord Emperor of the Universe I, has decreed a new holy war, the road to Jerusalem is fraught with thieves, heretics, heathens and infidels.
Come Templar brothers, to swords, shields, tanks and machine guns. In Hoc Signo Vinces, Dues Vult!

See Lumen, NOW you actually have an argument.

[The Two Jerseys]

Yes it is. DOJ definitions say that it happens when more than three people are shot, and nearly two dozen were shot in this case.

I mean sure, but like this would barely even make the news in Chicago.

It sounds like every graduation party that turns into a gang shootout...

[Paddy O Fernature]

I mean sure, but like this would barely even make the news in Chicago.

It sounds like every graduation party that turns into a gang shootout...

Grad party, pool party, funerals, weddings, holiday weekends, pretty much any time large numbers of people gather together in certain parts of the city. It's like magic, only more depressing.