"What are your pronouns?"

[Thomasi]

It’s not even that. The 1.7% used an overly broad definition of intersex, the actual amount is less than 1%
https://www.leonardsax.com/how-common-i ... -sterling/

Yet again this is a case of people misunderstanding how statistics work just like the abortion debate

The number of intersex people isn't important. The point is that they exist. We cannot say that human sex is a simple binary if we have even one individual who does not fit into the binary.

But intersex is a genetic mistake as in something went wrong in development. It's not like humans have 3 sexes to choose from they have 2 and sometimes the genes fail and end up devolving parts of both.

That doesn't make humans non binary. Think of it as your tasked with painting a paper with 2 half's pink and blue evenly. The small part in the middle thats purple doesn't mean you weren't supposed to only have 2 colors it just means you were imperfect by tiny margins.

[Neutraligon]

The number of intersex people isn't important. The point is that they exist. We cannot say that human sex is a simple binary if we have even one individual who does not fit into the binary.

But intersex is a genetic mistake as in something went wrong in development. It's not like humans have 3 sexes to choose from they have 2 and sometimes the genes fail and end up devolving parts of both.

That doesn't make humans non binary. Think of it as your tasked with painting a paper with 2 half's pink and blue evenly. The small part in the middle thats purple doesn't mean you weren't supposed to only have 2 colors it just means you were imperfect by tiny margins.

Reality disagrees with you. A binary means there are only two options. 1 and 0 in code. That other options even exist at all, no matter how rare or why, means that there are more than two options and it is not a binary. What humans are is bimodal. The vast majority fall into 1 of two camps, along a spectrum.

[Thomasi]

But intersex is a genetic mistake as in something went wrong in development. It's not like humans have 3 sexes to choose from they have 2 and sometimes the genes fail and end up devolving parts of both.

That doesn't make humans non binary. Think of it as your tasked with painting a paper with 2 half's pink and blue evenly. The small part in the middle thats purple doesn't mean you weren't supposed to only have 2 colors it just means you were imperfect by tiny margins.

Reality disagrees with you. A binary means there are only two options. 1 and 0 in code. That other options even exist at all, no matter how rare or why, means that there are more than two options and it is not a binary. What humans are is bimodal. The vast majority fall into 1 of two camps, along a spectrum.

Does something that is functionally useless (can't reproduce and thus evolutionarily speaking useless) count as an option?

[Ifreann]

The number of intersex people isn't important. The point is that they exist. We cannot say that human sex is a simple binary if we have even one individual who does not fit into the binary.

But intersex is a genetic mistake as in something went wrong in development. It's not like humans have 3 sexes to choose from they have 2 and sometimes the genes fail and end up devolving parts of both.

That doesn't make humans non binary. Think of it as your tasked with painting a paper with 2 half's pink and blue evenly. The small part in the middle thats purple doesn't mean you weren't supposed to only have 2 colors it just means you were imperfect by tiny margins.

You cannot write off people's existence as a mistake. Intersex people exist, therefore we cannot say that human sex is binary, no matter the reasons for their existence. If you put three colours on a sheet of paper, then there are three colours on that sheet of paper, not two.

[Neutraligon]

Reality disagrees with you. A binary means there are only two options. 1 and 0 in code. That other options even exist at all, no matter how rare or why, means that there are more than two options and it is not a binary. What humans are is bimodal. The vast majority fall into 1 of two camps, along a spectrum.

Does something that is functionally useless (can't reproduce and thus evolutionarily speaking useless) count as an option?

...wow, also why speak of evolution all of a sudden.

Also since they exist, clearly it is an option. Though you apparently need to learn a shit ton more about biology in general and intersex individuals specifically.

[Ifreann]

Reality disagrees with you. A binary means there are only two options. 1 and 0 in code. That other options even exist at all, no matter how rare or why, means that there are more than two options and it is not a binary. What humans are is bimodal. The vast majority fall into 1 of two camps, along a spectrum.

Does something that is functionally useless (can't reproduce and thus evolutionarily speaking useless) count as an option?

Intersex people are not necessarily unable to reproduce.

[Heloin]

Reality disagrees with you. A binary means there are only two options. 1 and 0 in code. That other options even exist at all, no matter how rare or why, means that there are more than two options and it is not a binary. What humans are is bimodal. The vast majority fall into 1 of two camps, along a spectrum.

Does something that is functionally useless (can't reproduce and thus evolutionarily speaking useless) count as an option?

I think once you start doing eugenics any point you had is out the window.

[Waspocalypse]

Does something that is functionally useless (can't reproduce and thus evolutionarily speaking useless) count as an option?

I think once you start doing eugenics any point you had is out the window.

Asking about functionality =/= eugenics.

You are mischaracterising others´ positions - yet again.

[Neutraligon]

I think once you start doing eugenics any point you had is out the window.

Asking about functionality =/= eugenics.

You are mischaracterising others´ positions - yet again.

It does however miss the point, that for some thing to be binary there is no third thinv. Functionality does not matter. If there is a third thing it is not binary, by definition.

[Waspocalypse]

Asking about functionality =/= eugenics.

You are mischaracterising others´ positions - yet again.

It does however miss the point, that for some thing to be binary there is no third thinv. Functionality does not matter. If there is a third thing it is not binary, by definition.

That I don´t disagree with.

I am merely fed up with the way certain respondents keep misrepresenting the positions of their opponents. Even when I don´t agree with those opponents (reproductive value is not just about procreating yourself, but also about care for others who share your genes / culture can be reproduced without procreative interactions / etc...), the opponents deserve to be countered on the arguments they actually make, not on some malicious charicature thereof.

And the dismissive snark that a position which the reply did not defend, means that the position it was defending is now "out of the window": doesn´t sound like a proper reasoning either.

[Armeattla]

That doesn't make humans non binary. Think of it as your tasked with painting a paper with 2 half's pink and blue evenly. The small part in the middle thats purple doesn't mean you weren't supposed to only have 2 colors it just means you were imperfect by tiny margins.

No, what makes a human non-binary is a sexualization of ther brain which causes it to reject the indentification with the binary.
And it doesn't matter what there was supposed to be, only what there is. Any scientific hypothesis crumbles under the presence of an observation running counter to the hypothesis, and said observation can't be handwaved away - that would be unscientific.

Does something that is functionally useless (can't reproduce and thus evolutionarily speaking useless) count as an option?

It doesn't matter. Intersex people exist and that is all that counts. Evolution does not have a function or a goal, there is nothing that is "unviable".
Said logic could be extended to so many people that it gets absurd, and one should also be aware that quite a few people used the same logic to commit democide.

[Aussie Australia]

OMG i'm not saying that it's literally just XX and XY that determine your sex but also your genes which exist in your sex chromosomes. That's why they're called your sex chromosomes.

Tell me how is an intersex person not one male or female when there disorder names literally gender them. XY Female syndrome or XX Male syndrome. They may have the opposite sex chromosome set but in thy have genes that code to make that person a man or a woman not inbetween but one or the other.

And just looking like a woman doesn't make you a woman like what. It's like saying oh that person is dressed like Michael Jackson so it must obviously be Michael Jackson. What do you think gendering is, why would we have just by pure coincidence two genders and two sexes both named the same thing. I mean it's almost like they're supposed to reflect each other!

You can't change your sex and therefore you can't change your gender. And you shouldn't gender is there to give you information about someone like can you breed with them or can they join this sport or can they use this bathroom.

Going through hormone replacement therapy won't change your sex (i.e. genes) and while it might make you look like a woman you aren't so why on earth would you be gendered as one

That's where the disconnect starts. You assert that sex = gender, your debate opponents assert that its not.

Let's put it this way. Let's say I'm born with a penis. Am I forbidden to wear skirts because my sex assigned at birth is male?

That's fine lol but everyone's going to think you're weird

[Diarcesia]

That's where the disconnect starts. You assert that sex = gender, your debate opponents assert that its not.

Let's put it this way. Let's say I'm born with a penis. Am I forbidden to wear skirts because my sex assigned at birth is male?

That's fine lol but everyone's going to think you're weird

It's up to them if they care or not that they're perceived as weird.

[Floofybit]

I have a question. In the professional world in certain countries, people use pre tags such as Mr. for a male, Ms. for a single woman, and Mrs. for a married woman, but what pretag would somebody use if they went by they/them?

[HISPIDA]

I have a question. In the professional world in certain countries, people use pre tags such as Mr. for a male, Ms. for a single woman, and Mrs. for a married woman, but what pretag would somebody use if they went by they/them?

mx.

[Rusozak]

I have a question. In the professional world in certain countries, people use pre tags such as Mr. for a male, Ms. for a single woman, and Mrs. for a married woman, but what pretag would somebody use if they went by they/them?

mx.

How is that pronounced?

[Libertarian conformists]

Even if you don't understand why someone would use certain pronouns, it isn't about you. It's pretty easy not to be an asshole and just refer to them using the pronouns they're comfortable with.

I second this opinion

[Thomasi]

So in some states you can change the sex on your birth certificate. How does that not fuck up your citizenship since you would now have conflict info between the state and federal government if you tried to get a passport.

[Ifreann]

So in some states you can change the sex on your birth certificate. How does that not fuck up your citizenship since you would now have conflict info between the state and federal government if you tried to get a passport.

What conflicting information?

[PhilTech]

mx.

How is that pronounced?

"mix"

[Thomasi]

So in some states you can change the sex on your birth certificate. How does that not fuck up your citizenship since you would now have conflict info between the state and federal government if you tried to get a passport.

What conflicting information?

Your federal record saying for example you are a male, and your state birth certificate saying female. I imagine trying to do anything that required you to be a citizen would be difficult.

[PhilTech]

So in some states you can change the sex on your birth certificate?

Wait what really?

I thought, universally, we've come to an agreement that sex and gender are two different things?

[Heloin]

What conflicting information?

Your federal record saying for example you are a male, and your state birth certificate saying female. I imagine trying to do anything that required you to be a citizen would be difficult.

Not any more difficult then changing your name makes it.

[Ifreann]

What conflicting information?

Your federal record saying for example you are a male, and your state birth certificate saying female. I imagine trying to do anything that required you to be a citizen would be difficult.

What federal record? Does the US federal government have a database of all citizens and their personal details?

[Thomasi]

Your federal record saying for example you are a male, and your state birth certificate saying female. I imagine trying to do anything that required you to be a citizen would be difficult.

What federal record? Does the US federal government have a database of all citizens and their personal details?

The Social security administration has everyone's information.