Heloin wrote:Waspocalypse wrote:Indeed, there is no pretense on your part - and a ton of projection toward me.
Sure whateves.
More dismissive attitude.
Hence the word analogy - and the explanation of what an analogy is. You are either very oblivious, or purposefully pretending to be unaware of how the answer and its clarification were constructed.
The analogy doesn't help whatever point you intend to make, if it's even related to the topic it only works against your point. That you made a bad argument doesn't mean other people are idiots.
These assertions need to be demonstrated; just calling my argument a bad one does not make it so. But good for you for finally seeing the analogy. Now try understanding it.
EXPECTING / DEMANDING consideration = wrong
ASKING consideration = likely to get the desired result.
That scootered lady could have had my help by saying "excuse me, could you help me find staff / get something from that shelf for me" - and I´d have done so and she could have thanked me and I´d have gone home feeling good, and she´d have been on her way with her sliced meat.
Instead, she decided to unload God knows how much frustration on me, even when I wasn´t to blame for any of her situation (I didn´t put her in that scooter, I did not abscond the staff, it wasn´t my job to assist her / it wasn´t my priority to mind her business).
She felt that her special needs somehow entitled her to be rude to me. No, she was utterly wrong in thinking so.
ANALOGY
Asking to use a different pronoun is likely to be respected. Everybody is happy to do so unless...
pronouns have been demanded with a bully´s attitude of "you must guess mine correctly and if you get it wrong even once I will be horrible to you". That may, after a while, start putting people off.
FURTHER EXPLANATION:
I do not claim that a Karen in the supermarket is similar to, or of the same magnitude as, the world-wide issue of pronouns.
I used an everyday, low-key comparison, to illustrate the dynamic of the situation.
If non-cis-gendered individuals feel that the dynamic of their interactions with the wider world has now become incomparable with any and all everyday encounters, then reasonable discussion becomes impossible. That is literally a demand that discussion can only be had on terms set by the ones with the bullies´ attitude.
Analogy =/= example. Please see previous reply.
If you're upset about assumptions made on your arguments make better arguments.
1. I am not upset.
2. To assume makes an ass out of you (U) and me.
3. Your arguments so far are assertions, not demonstrations.
More examples of dismissing someone´s answer and arguments by (deliberate?) misinterpretation. And somehow implying that such misinterpretation also justifies a lack of common courtesy, or a general disbelief. Whatever your pronouns, you really are an excellent illustration of the attitude I was referring to. An attitude that bears similarities to the scootered Karen in the supermarket, whose abrasive attitude sprang from a comparable but not equal mindset, even if the situation had nothing to do with pronouns. Comparison =/= causality.
Do you have a point beyond that you feel like you're being forced to regard other people with dignity?
You are once more mischaracterising my argument.
My argument is that such dignity is easily and willingly extended when it is asked, and unwillingly extended when it is demanded. Because the demand is based on a desire to shout at someone.
And with that, ladies and gentlemen and everyone in between, the debater ran out of arguments, opting instead for baseless ridicule. And He/She/They/Zhe/Xhe/Shex wonders why there are people who are reluctant to extend a courtesy toward Him/Her/Them/Zhim/Xhem/Herx when it comes to pronouns. If you try to explain the difference between asking and demanding, you get "laughing out loud": a bully´s defense.
To be totally honest if someone being rude to you because you don't want to be even slightly polite to them is the greatest adversity you've had in your life then god I wish I could live like that.
You have no idea what the greatest adversity in my life has been.
Just because I chose an everyday example for an analogy doesn´t mean that I am unfamiliar with greater difficulties. I just don´t see how - for instance - being gaybashed is somehow relevant to a discussion about the dynamic surrounding demands / requests for pronouns. This is not the intersectionality olympics. This is - or should be - about an answer to the question "why are people reluctant to respect someone´s pronouns".
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.
Excellent use of the conjunctive perfectum.
I feel more like a Tutor than a Philosophus at this point.
And I will not be silenced. Not by assertions. Not by bad attitude. Not by mischaracterisations. Not by an inflated sense of entitlement.