[Abortion Thread] A Matter of Choice (NEW POLL!)

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Do you believe in Aristotle's ladder of life lmao?

I have no idea what that is.

I'm gauging just how undereducated you are regarding basic biology. Since you are gladly spouting such nonsense as single cell organisms attacking things.

[The Black Forrest]

An average human is comprised of about 30 trillion human cells and 39 trillion bacteria, your body is not actively fighting them, they are kind of essential.

I know, dude. It's pretty obvious we're talking about harmful bacteria here.

You might want to declare that next time. Simply saying bacteria doesn’t make people think of harmful. There are a great many science ignorant people these days; you can’t just assume anymore.

[Take One For the Roe]

Again, not comparable. Your body actively fights to kill bacteria, but actively protects and feeds a fetus.

The placenta has to emit the same chemicals ringworms do to avoid detection by a womans immune system. If it didn't the body would attack and kill it.

In all likelihood those chemicals were evolved in humans before ringworms, and ringworms took advantage of the preexisting system. All mammals have to regulate their immune system to not attack their gestating young.

[Informed Consent]

Their humanity isn't all that important of a concern in the grand scheme of things. A woman can defend herself with necessary force to prevent a born person using her body without her consent. In my view it is wrong to deny her this same right just because it has not yet emerged from the birth canal.

Also, it is wrong to presume that a woman seeking an abortion is 'avoiding consequences'. Getting an abortion is dealing with that consequence in the same way that someone injured in a car crash deals with the consequences of driving by getting treatment for their injuries.

The automobile accident as metaphor for rape makes perfect sense, but after that the logical cohesion falls off precipitously.
Progeny are not an invasive species acting upon their own will.
They are a chemical byproduct with all of the self-determination of an Alka-Seltzer.
So while I will make concessions for rape, incest, and the like, I will never admit that we can put ourselves in the glass of water.

[Thomasi]

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/28/alabam ... ealth-care

Alabama cites Roe decision in urging court to let state ban trans health care

Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall (R) on Tuesday urged a federal court to drop its block on the state's ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth arguing such care is not protected by the Constitution.

Driving the news: Marshall used the U.S Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade to suggest that since the court rejected the idea that abortion cannot be protected under the 14th Amendment because it's not "deeply rooted" in the nation's history, the same could be said about access to gender-affirming care.

Context: Alabama's S.B. 184 makes it a felony for any person to "engage in or cause" specified types of medical care for trans youth, threatening criminal prosecution to doctors, parents, guardians and any else who attempts to provide that care to a minor.

Anyone who violates this law, which was enacted in April this year and blocked in May, could face up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $15,000.
The big picture: Prior to Roe being overturned, abortion access was protected under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. There are several constitutional rights that are currently protected in that same way, those include same-sex relationships, marriage equality and access to contraceptives.

Justice Clarence Thomas, who joined the majority in overturning Roe, wrote in a concurring opinion that the Supreme Court should reconsider other due process precedents such as Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell.
Yes, but: Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who also joined the majority, wrote in his own concurrence that the decision to overturn Roe was only abortion, saying that "[o]verruling Roe does not mean the overruling of those precedents, and does not threaten or cast doubt on those precedents."

Details: "[N]o one — adult or child — has a right to transitioning treatments that is deeply rooted in our Nation's history and tradition. The State can thus regulate or prohibit those interventions for children, even if an adult wants the drugs for his child," Marshall wrote in a court document.

"Just as the parental relationship does not unlock a Due Process right allowing parents to obtain medical marijuana or abortions for their children, neither does it unlock a right to transitioning treatments."
"The Constitution reserves to the state — not courts of medical interest groups — the authority to determine that these sterilizing interventions are too dangerous for minors."
Reality check: Medical organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, have condemned legislation to restrict gender-affirming medical care, saying it could have a detrimental effect on the mental health of transgender youth.

Over two-thirds of LGBTQ youth said recent debates over state laws that target transgender people have negatively impacted their mental health, according to a poll by the Trevor Project, which provides crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to LGBTQ youth.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

https://www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/55882/1/alabama-will-now-force-medically-transitioning-trans-youth-to-detransition?amp=1
Or:
Literal Mengele nonsense
Moral and scientific bankruptcy.

Oh and, relying on the various states to safeguard human rights is delusional nonsense. Something that should've been painfully realised with such shit as that one war to maintain chattel slavery in the South. Or those 100 years afterwards where the same Southern states kept denigrating afro-americans in law as untermenschen.

[Ifreann]

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/28/alabama-roe-supreme-court-block-trans-health-care

Alabama cites Roe decision in urging court to let state ban trans health care

Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall (R) on Tuesday urged a federal court to drop its block on the state's ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth arguing such care is not protected by the Constitution.

Driving the news: Marshall used the U.S Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade to suggest that since the court rejected the idea that abortion cannot be protected under the 14th Amendment because it's not "deeply rooted" in the nation's history, the same could be said about access to gender-affirming care.

Context: Alabama's S.B. 184 makes it a felony for any person to "engage in or cause" specified types of medical care for trans youth, threatening criminal prosecution to doctors, parents, guardians and any else who attempts to provide that care to a minor.

Anyone who violates this law, which was enacted in April this year and blocked in May, could face up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $15,000.
The big picture: Prior to Roe being overturned, abortion access was protected under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. There are several constitutional rights that are currently protected in that same way, those include same-sex relationships, marriage equality and access to contraceptives.

Justice Clarence Thomas, who joined the majority in overturning Roe, wrote in a concurring opinion that the Supreme Court should reconsider other due process precedents such as Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell.
Yes, but: Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who also joined the majority, wrote in his own concurrence that the decision to overturn Roe was only abortion, saying that "[o]verruling Roe does not mean the overruling of those precedents, and does not threaten or cast doubt on those precedents."

Details: "[N]o one — adult or child — has a right to transitioning treatments that is deeply rooted in our Nation's history and tradition. The State can thus regulate or prohibit those interventions for children, even if an adult wants the drugs for his child," Marshall wrote in a court document.

"Just as the parental relationship does not unlock a Due Process right allowing parents to obtain medical marijuana or abortions for their children, neither does it unlock a right to transitioning treatments."
"The Constitution reserves to the state — not courts of medical interest groups — the authority to determine that these sterilizing interventions are too dangerous for minors."
Reality check: Medical organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, have condemned legislation to restrict gender-affirming medical care, saying it could have a detrimental effect on the mental health of transgender youth.

Over two-thirds of LGBTQ youth said recent debates over state laws that target transgender people have negatively impacted their mental health, according to a poll by the Trevor Project, which provides crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to LGBTQ youth.

They're coming for everyone's bodily autonomy.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/28/alabama-roe-supreme-court-block-trans-health-care

Alabama cites Roe decision in urging court to let state ban trans health care

Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall (R) on Tuesday urged a federal court to drop its block on the state's ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth arguing such care is not protected by the Constitution.

Driving the news: Marshall used the U.S Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade to suggest that since the court rejected the idea that abortion cannot be protected under the 14th Amendment because it's not "deeply rooted" in the nation's history, the same could be said about access to gender-affirming care.

Context: Alabama's S.B. 184 makes it a felony for any person to "engage in or cause" specified types of medical care for trans youth, threatening criminal prosecution to doctors, parents, guardians and any else who attempts to provide that care to a minor.

Anyone who violates this law, which was enacted in April this year and blocked in May, could face up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $15,000.
The big picture: Prior to Roe being overturned, abortion access was protected under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. There are several constitutional rights that are currently protected in that same way, those include same-sex relationships, marriage equality and access to contraceptives.

Justice Clarence Thomas, who joined the majority in overturning Roe, wrote in a concurring opinion that the Supreme Court should reconsider other due process precedents such as Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell.
Yes, but: Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who also joined the majority, wrote in his own concurrence that the decision to overturn Roe was only abortion, saying that "[o]verruling Roe does not mean the overruling of those precedents, and does not threaten or cast doubt on those precedents."

Details: "[N]o one — adult or child — has a right to transitioning treatments that is deeply rooted in our Nation's history and tradition. The State can thus regulate or prohibit those interventions for children, even if an adult wants the drugs for his child," Marshall wrote in a court document.

"Just as the parental relationship does not unlock a Due Process right allowing parents to obtain medical marijuana or abortions for their children, neither does it unlock a right to transitioning treatments."
"The Constitution reserves to the state — not courts of medical interest groups — the authority to determine that these sterilizing interventions are too dangerous for minors."
Reality check: Medical organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, have condemned legislation to restrict gender-affirming medical care, saying it could have a detrimental effect on the mental health of transgender youth.

Over two-thirds of LGBTQ youth said recent debates over state laws that target transgender people have negatively impacted their mental health, according to a poll by the Trevor Project, which provides crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to LGBTQ youth.

But remember, the GOP is the party of small government.

[Vassenor]

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/28/alabama-roe-supreme-court-block-trans-health-care

Alabama cites Roe decision in urging court to let state ban trans health care

Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall (R) on Tuesday urged a federal court to drop its block on the state's ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth arguing such care is not protected by the Constitution.

Driving the news: Marshall used the U.S Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade to suggest that since the court rejected the idea that abortion cannot be protected under the 14th Amendment because it's not "deeply rooted" in the nation's history, the same could be said about access to gender-affirming care.

Context: Alabama's S.B. 184 makes it a felony for any person to "engage in or cause" specified types of medical care for trans youth, threatening criminal prosecution to doctors, parents, guardians and any else who attempts to provide that care to a minor.

Anyone who violates this law, which was enacted in April this year and blocked in May, could face up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $15,000.
The big picture: Prior to Roe being overturned, abortion access was protected under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. There are several constitutional rights that are currently protected in that same way, those include same-sex relationships, marriage equality and access to contraceptives.

Justice Clarence Thomas, who joined the majority in overturning Roe, wrote in a concurring opinion that the Supreme Court should reconsider other due process precedents such as Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell.
Yes, but: Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who also joined the majority, wrote in his own concurrence that the decision to overturn Roe was only abortion, saying that "[o]verruling Roe does not mean the overruling of those precedents, and does not threaten or cast doubt on those precedents."

Details: "[N]o one — adult or child — has a right to transitioning treatments that is deeply rooted in our Nation's history and tradition. The State can thus regulate or prohibit those interventions for children, even if an adult wants the drugs for his child," Marshall wrote in a court document.

"Just as the parental relationship does not unlock a Due Process right allowing parents to obtain medical marijuana or abortions for their children, neither does it unlock a right to transitioning treatments."
"The Constitution reserves to the state — not courts of medical interest groups — the authority to determine that these sterilizing interventions are too dangerous for minors."
Reality check: Medical organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, have condemned legislation to restrict gender-affirming medical care, saying it could have a detrimental effect on the mental health of transgender youth.

Over two-thirds of LGBTQ youth said recent debates over state laws that target transgender people have negatively impacted their mental health, according to a poll by the Trevor Project, which provides crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to LGBTQ youth.

But remember, the GOP is the party of small government.

Yes, government small enough to fit in a woman's vagina.

[HISPIDA]

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/28/alabama-roe-supreme-court-block-trans-health-care

Alabama cites Roe decision in urging court to let state ban trans health care

-snip-

i want off mr. bones' wild ride

[Armeattla]

Should I organize some human trafficers already? Free entry to europe!

[Armeattla]

So where in common mores is it declared acceptable for me to kidnap you and suck your blood?

Pregnancy is not in any way like kidnapping someone and sucking their blood. As I said before, a fetus cannot exert force to come into existence. Their existence is entirely dependent upon the actions of others. And blood doesn't pass between the mother and fetus; the fetus doesn't consume blood. You are quite eager to make the victims of abortion look like perpetrators - a common tactic among people who deny human rights to others.

Their existence in itself is an act of violence.
Primarily an act of violence against their host, but also an act of violence against society, as both the host and the society are forced to interact with the fetus.

[Godular]

Their humanity isn't all that important of a concern in the grand scheme of things. A woman can defend herself with necessary force to prevent a born person using her body without her consent. In my view it is wrong to deny her this same right just because it has not yet emerged from the birth canal.

Also, it is wrong to presume that a woman seeking an abortion is 'avoiding consequences'. Getting an abortion is dealing with that consequence in the same way that someone injured in a car crash deals with the consequences of driving by getting treatment for their injuries.

The automobile accident as metaphor for rape makes perfect sense, but after that the logical cohesion falls off precipitously.

Would you prefer I use the analogy of a mountain climber who gets injured? Are they precluded from getting treatment for their injuries? The logic holds because nobody gets into their car or climbs a mountain with the intent of getting injured. They know that it is a possibility, but that does not mean they should just 'deal with it' if the risks are borne through. A woman can have sex without wanting to get pregnant, and fully cognizant of the risks. That should not preclude her from seeking treatment if the risk is borne through.

Progeny are not an invasive species acting upon their own will.

Intention is not particularly relevant. The only thing that matters is that the woman does not consent to the fetus' presence, and therefore a harm is inherently presented. People have been shot down for less intrusive actions, even (and especially) here in Texas.

They are a chemical byproduct with all of the self-determination of an Alka-Seltzer.

The same could be said of cancer, and we don't mind removing that.

So while I will make concessions for rape, incest, and the like, I will never admit that we can put ourselves in the glass of water.

You're gonna have to explain that turn of phrase to me.

[Thepeopl]

-snip- How the above person can refer to her child as a parasite or alien in full earnest is beyond my sensibilities. I shall pray desperately that you see this issue in a different light.

They were very much wanted and loved. Reality is, they are alien (50%) to my body AND displaying parasitic behaviour. They feed from my body. And I had severe morning sickness (more like 24/7 for the first 5 months)

I don't like lying nor sugar coating the truth.
I'd never say "parasite" or "alien" if I'd become unwanted pregnant.
Yes being pregnant is great. Feeling someone else having hiccups in your belly is surreal. But ONLY if it is wanted.

If I'd become pregnant rn, I'd have a termination of pregnancy asap. Because too great strain on my body/ energy levels and finances.
Not starting babying again. Youngest is 6yo. Almost 7. No baby furniture In my household any more. No baby clothes and no room in my life. I'll wait till my grandchildren are born.

Living beings are more precious to me then a clump of cells. I know what I'm talking about. I have had an blighted ovum pregnancy AND a miscarriage. Most definitely different.

My 4 children deserve my undivided attention and support.

[Thomasi]

-snip- How the above person can refer to her child as a parasite or alien in full earnest is beyond my sensibilities. I shall pray desperately that you see this issue in a different light.

They were very much wanted and loved. Reality is, they are alien (50%) to my body AND displaying parasitic behaviour. They feed from my body. And I had severe morning sickness (more like 24/7 for the first 5 months)

I don't like lying nor sugar coating the truth.
I'd never say "parasite" or "alien" if I'd become unwanted pregnant.
Yes being pregnant is great. Feeling someone else having hiccups in your belly is surreal. But ONLY if it is wanted.

If I'd become pregnant rn, I'd have a termination of pregnancy asap. Because too great strain on my body/ energy levels and finances.
Not starting babying again. Youngest is 6yo. Almost 7. No baby furniture In my household any more. No baby clothes and no room in my life. I'll wait till my grandchildren are born.

Living beings are more precious to me then a clump of cells. I know what I'm talking about. I have had an blighted ovum pregnancy AND a miscarriage. Most definitely different.

My 4 children deserve my undivided attention and support.

Then if you are done get eggs harvested and let them be available for a couple or woman who is infertile and wants a baby. Not removing the possibility to get pregnant is called using abortion as birth control.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Then if you are done get eggs harvested and let them be available for a couple or woman who is infertile and wants a baby. Not removing the possibility to get pregnant is called using abortion as birth control.

Could you rephrase that in a manner that is just slightly less condescending? <.<

[Fartsniffage]

Then if you are done get eggs harvested and let them be available for a couple or woman who is infertile and wants a baby. Not removing the possibility to get pregnant is called using abortion as birth control.

Could you rephrase that in a manner that is just slightly less condescending? <.<

Clearly Thepeopl is just a recalcitrant baby making machine that has some spare parts a different, broken, baby making machine needs.

Time to break her down for spares.

[Thepeopl]

They were very much wanted and loved. Reality is, they are alien (50%) to my body AND displaying parasitic behaviour. They feed from my body. And I had severe morning sickness (more like 24/7 for the first 5 months)

I don't like lying nor sugar coating the truth.
I'd never say "parasite" or "alien" if I'd become unwanted pregnant.
Yes being pregnant is great. Feeling someone else having hiccups in your belly is surreal. But ONLY if it is wanted.

If I'd become pregnant rn, I'd have a termination of pregnancy asap. Because too great strain on my body/ energy levels and finances.
Not starting babying again. Youngest is 6yo. Almost 7. No baby furniture In my household any more. No baby clothes and no room in my life. I'll wait till my grandchildren are born.

Living beings are more precious to me then a clump of cells. I know what I'm talking about. I have had an blighted ovum pregnancy AND a miscarriage. Most definitely different.

My 4 children deserve my undivided attention and support.

Then if you are done get eggs harvested and let them be available for a couple or woman who is infertile and wants a baby. Not removing the possibility to get pregnant is called using abortion as birth control.

I don't think there are many couples who want eggs from a 45+ yo donor. Something something high chance of disabled children. But hey. Be my guest.

https://www.fertilitysourcecompanies.co ... d%20parent.

And no, I wouldn't want to subject any children of mine to the uncertainty of unknown genetic diseases, being "half blood". As an adoptee myself, I know what I'm talking about. The not belonging in my society is not nice.

[Page]

They were very much wanted and loved. Reality is, they are alien (50%) to my body AND displaying parasitic behaviour. They feed from my body. And I had severe morning sickness (more like 24/7 for the first 5 months)

I don't like lying nor sugar coating the truth.
I'd never say "parasite" or "alien" if I'd become unwanted pregnant.
Yes being pregnant is great. Feeling someone else having hiccups in your belly is surreal. But ONLY if it is wanted.

If I'd become pregnant rn, I'd have a termination of pregnancy asap. Because too great strain on my body/ energy levels and finances.
Not starting babying again. Youngest is 6yo. Almost 7. No baby furniture In my household any more. No baby clothes and no room in my life. I'll wait till my grandchildren are born.

Living beings are more precious to me then a clump of cells. I know what I'm talking about. I have had an blighted ovum pregnancy AND a miscarriage. Most definitely different.

My 4 children deserve my undivided attention and support.

Then if you are done get eggs harvested and let them be available for a couple or woman who is infertile and wants a baby. Not removing the possibility to get pregnant is called using abortion as birth control.

Do you think the biggest side effect for a woman getting sterilized is it taking a week for the surgical cut to heal or what? Reproductive systems affect the entire body and brain. And in the United States, sterilization is not free. Nor is it even accessible. Go check out r/childfree on Reddit and see how fucking difficult it is for a childless woman to find a surgeon willing to sterilize her.

[Alcala-Cordel]

It looks like a blob of meat.

I pray that one day you see it as an infant made in the image of God.

It's not an infant, that is an entirely different stage of the life cycle. Human fetuses look identical to fetuses from most other mammals.

You have no right to use your religious beliefs as an excuse to make other people suffer by having a kid instead of aborting it before it becomes a person.

[Free Algerstonia]

It looks like a human child. Does it not?

It looks like a blob of meat.

we all look like blobs of meat

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It looks like a blob of meat.

we all look like blobs of meat

Maybe you do but im part of the grorious asian masterrace
<.< >.>

[Thomasi]

I pray that one day you see it as an infant made in the image of God.

It's not an infant, that is an entirely different stage of the life cycle. Human fetuses look identical to fetuses from most other mammals.

You have no right to use your religious beliefs as an excuse to make other people suffer by having a kid instead of aborting it before it becomes a person.

26 week preemie infant 30 week preborn fetus?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It's not an infant, that is an entirely different stage of the life cycle. Human fetuses look identical to fetuses from most other mammals.

You have no right to use your religious beliefs as an excuse to make other people suffer by having a kid instead of aborting it before it becomes a person.

26 week preemie infant 30 week preborn fetus?

I looked at this post with a magnifying glass yet I still were unable to discern any meaning in this jumble of letters.

[Page]

It's not an infant, that is an entirely different stage of the life cycle. Human fetuses look identical to fetuses from most other mammals.

You have no right to use your religious beliefs as an excuse to make other people suffer by having a kid instead of aborting it before it becomes a person.

26 week preemie infant 30 week preborn fetus?

If someone is terminating their pregnancy after 26 weeks they have a damn good reason for it.