[Abortion Thread] A Tough Pill To Swallow

[The Alma Mater]

What the fuck does any of this help? What does this achieve?

It makes people believe they have scored points for the afterlife, since they have already given up this one.

[Khurkhogur]

"Pro-abortion" is absolutely a "colorful, propaganda-ish term." It is only used by the pro-life lobby, as a term of derision, and by virtually no one else.

In fairness, I'm using the term "anti-abortion" instead of "pro-life." I sincerely don't intend to use either as a term of derision.

In any case: Most abortions do not take place late in pregnancy, and when they do there are usually legitimate medical reasons why this is happening. Women do not generally just wait until the last minute out of laziness.

I know. I addressed that earlier and I think that the majority of the abortions in the US (someone said 79% are done before the first trimester) are morally justifiable - although I still don't think they're a good thing necessarily and would generally discourage them (although prohibiting them is unreasonable).

Instead they may have discovered, for example, that their baby has Harlequin Ichthyosis, and has about a 50% chance of dying in the first few weeks, and if they survive they will spend the rest of their life disfigured and in great pain. And they want to spare them that. Or, perhaps, the fetus may have died, but is not naturally passing on it's own, and must be removed through abortion. There are many reasons, and they're usually very personal, and very painful. Many of these women want to be mothers, and carried the pregnancy this far in the hope that they would be, but now their faced with a terrible circumstance, and must make a difficult choice. And it's quite intrusive for the government to barge into that.

Those sorts of cases are complicated and I wouldn't make a judgement about them randomly. The world is a messy place.

[Torisakia]

I just don’t understand. The world is approaching 8 Billion people and we are hanging on by a fucking thread just to try and support that. Millions are going hungry due to crop failures in California due to the drought. People can afford shit as it stands. The child welfare system is so overhwhelmed that it cannot cope. Women seeking an abortion are making a conscious choice to try and stem that tide. A mistake is made and a fetus is conceived. A woman knows that she cannot care for that child, due to whatever circumstances , and now she is forced to carry that fetus to term, and then have that child grow up in poverty.

What the fuck does any of this help? What does this achieve? Why do the beliefs of a minority, trump the beliefs of a majority? I have yet to ever see a single pro-life person come up with a single tangible argument, other than the bible says abortion is murder. I don’t shit on anyone else’s beliefs, but they will sure as fuck shit in yours when it comes to abortion. You don’t believe in abortion? Don’t get one.

You'll eventually learn that human rights do not exist in this world. We are all pawns of the government to line their pockets with money while committing to slavery every day of our lives until our premature deaths, where we'll be replaced by yet another pawn. It is a vicious cycle that will continue until the end of time. There is nothing to look forward to in the future, only despair and agony.

Send all "lol edgy" replies to my TGs

[Khurkhogur]

Yes, absolutely.

Don't judge people if you're not prepared to be judged on the same criteria.

[The Alma Mater]

Yes, absolutely.

Don't judge people if you're not prepared to be judged on the same criteria.

I have held and argued the position that buying stuff one knows was made by slaves is the same as supporting slavery for about 20 years on this forum alone. I agree

[Khurkhogur]

I just don’t understand. The world is approaching 8 Billion people and we are hanging on by a fucking thread just to try and support that. Millions are going hungry due to crop failures in California due to the drought. People can afford shit as it stands. The child welfare system is so overhwhelmed that it cannot cope. Women seeking an abortion are making a conscious choice to try and stem that tide. A mistake is made and a fetus is conceived. A woman knows that she cannot care for that child, due to whatever circumstances , and now she is forced to carry that fetus to term, and then have that child grow up in poverty.

What the fuck does any of this help? What does this achieve? Why do the beliefs of a minority, trump the beliefs of a majority? I have yet to ever see a single pro-life person come up with a single tangible argument, other than the bible says abortion is murder. I don’t shit on anyone else’s beliefs, but they will sure as fuck shit in yours when it comes to abortion. You don’t believe in abortion? Don’t get one.

The world is not buckling under the weight of the current human population, it's buckling under the weight of consumer capitalism and modern industrialized society. Communal societies don't suffer from problems like the child welfare system being overwhelmed, raising children is the duty of extended families and wider communities. If that's the sort of model we followed today, raising children would not be an issue.
We also have enough food to feed 10 billion people worldwide (according to a quick google search, although I'm not sure if that's wholly accurate) and plenty of space to house everyone (tons of homes in the US lie unoccupied, for example). The problem is not overpopulation.

[The Alma Mater]

I just don’t understand. The world is approaching 8 Billion people and we are hanging on by a fucking thread just to try and support that. Millions are going hungry due to crop failures in California due to the drought. People can afford shit as it stands. The child welfare system is so overhwhelmed that it cannot cope. Women seeking an abortion are making a conscious choice to try and stem that tide. A mistake is made and a fetus is conceived. A woman knows that she cannot care for that child, due to whatever circumstances , and now she is forced to carry that fetus to term, and then have that child grow up in poverty.

What the fuck does any of this help? What does this achieve? Why do the beliefs of a minority, trump the beliefs of a majority? I have yet to ever see a single pro-life person come up with a single tangible argument, other than the bible says abortion is murder. I don’t shit on anyone else’s beliefs, but they will sure as fuck shit in yours when it comes to abortion. You don’t believe in abortion? Don’t get one.

The world is not buckling under the weight of the current human population, it's buckling under the weight of consumer capitalism and modern industrialized society. Communal societies don't suffer from problems like the child welfare system being overwhelmed, raising children is the duty of extended families and wider communities. If that's the sort of model we followed today, raising children would not be an issue.

So you suggest group marriages to solve the problem of unwanted children?

[Khurkhogur]

So you suggest group marriages to solve the problem of unwanted children?

No. By communal society I mean societies where children are raised by extended families (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. play a role in raising a child) and wider communities. This is how things used to work pretty much everywhere before capitalism. In many places, this is still the norm (although these are admittedly poorer countries).

[WayNeacTia]

I just don’t understand. The world is approaching 8 Billion people and we are hanging on by a fucking thread just to try and support that. Millions are going hungry due to crop failures in California due to the drought. People can afford shit as it stands. The child welfare system is so overhwhelmed that it cannot cope. Women seeking an abortion are making a conscious choice to try and stem that tide. A mistake is made and a fetus is conceived. A woman knows that she cannot care for that child, due to whatever circumstances , and now she is forced to carry that fetus to term, and then have that child grow up in poverty.

What the fuck does any of this help? What does this achieve? Why do the beliefs of a minority, trump the beliefs of a majority? I have yet to ever see a single pro-life person come up with a single tangible argument, other than the bible says abortion is murder. I don’t shit on anyone else’s beliefs, but they will sure as fuck shit in yours when it comes to abortion. You don’t believe in abortion? Don’t get one.

You'll eventually learn that human rights do not exist in this world. We are all pawns of the government to line their pockets with money while committing to slavery every day of our lives until our premature deaths, where we'll be replaced by yet another pawn. It is a vicious cycle that will continue until the end of time. There is nothing to look forward to in the future, only despair and agony.

Send all "lol edgy" replies to my TGs

Seeing as how I am likely twice your age, I had figured that one out years ago.

I used to believe that the SCOTUS had the best interests of the people and the nation in mind. They have made some controversial calls over the years, but ever since Trump's three pawns have been on the bench, a shit show doesn't even been to describe what that court has become. Clarence Thomas and his perverted sense of the constitution are just the beginning folks. KI do wish you all of the luck in the world on this one. As a side note, they have ensured that Justin Trudeau wins the next election here in Canada, as I can guarantee you that none of the mouthpieces we have running to take of the Conservative party are going to be able to leave this alone. Not only is abortion legal all across Canada, it is healthcare funded and fully covered.

Congratulations on being set back into the 1800's again. Let us all know how it turns out...

[Great Heathen Air Force]

Those sorts of cases are complicated and I wouldn't make a judgement about them randomly. The world is a messy place.

I'm glad you think so, but the fact of the matter is that in many places the right to make these hard decisions will now be taken away. People, and their doctors, can't be trusted to make their own decisions. The government must decide for them, and the answer will always be the same.

It's common knowledge among abortion providers that pro-life people get as many abortions (if not more) as pro-choice people. Always with excuses for why their own unique case is special. Now they will have to lie in the terrible bed they've made. I wish I could be happy about that, but it's all just very sad.

[Torisakia]

You'll eventually learn that human rights do not exist in this world. We are all pawns of the government to line their pockets with money while committing to slavery every day of our lives until our premature deaths, where we'll be replaced by yet another pawn. It is a vicious cycle that will continue until the end of time. There is nothing to look forward to in the future, only despair and agony.

Send all "lol edgy" replies to my TGs

Seeing as how I am likely twice your age, I had figured that one out years ago.

I used to believe that the SCOTUS had the best interests of the people and the nation in mind. They have made some controversial calls over the years, but ever since Trump's three pawns have been on the bench, a shit show doesn't even been to describe what that court has become. Clarence Thomas and his perverted sense of the constitution are just the beginning folks. KI do wish you all of the luck in the world on this one. As a side note, they have ensured that Justin Trudeau wins the next election here in Canada, as I can guarantee you that none of the mouthpieces we have running to take of the Conservative party are going to be able to leave this alone. Not only is abortion legal all across Canada, it is healthcare funded and fully covered.

Congratulations on being set back into the 1800's again. Let us all know how it turns out...

I'll likely die within the next year or so due to that slave labor I mentioned (among other things), so I won't be finding out thankfully. Though I do like seeing the world go down in flames. It's fun to read comments and stuff.

[WayNeacTia]

viewtopic.php?p=39726757#p39726757

Kat had a great take here. This is fascism plain and simple. This does bring up an interesting situation though. Right after the WW1 (i.e. 1922), fascist leaning began to take hold in Europe. Pretty soon you had two fascist dictators in power. How many million people had to die in the subsequent years to end that shit back then? How many are going to have to die this time?

Though I do like seeing the world go down in flames. It's fun to read comments and stuff.

I have come to realization that is probably the best thing for this planet. A great reset. Maybe they will actually get it right next time....

[Torisakia]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=39726757#p39726757

Kat had a great take here. This is fascism plain and simple. This does bring up an interesting situation though. Right after the WW1 (i.e. 1922), fascist leaning began to take hold in Europe. Pretty soon you had two fascist dictators in power. How many million people had to die in the subsequent years to end that shit back then? How many are going to have to die this time?

This is tyranny. This is fascism. But most of all, this is democracy manifest.

Here's hoping the sun spontaneously combusts in the next 24 hours and kills us all.

I have come to realization that is probably the best thing for this planet. A great reset. Maybe they will actually get it right next time....

Well there's your mistake: trusting humans. The planet is better off with a different dominant species.

[Spirit of Hope]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=39726757#p39726757

Kat had a great take here. This is fascism plain and simple. This does bring up an interesting situation though. Right after the WW1 (i.e. 1922), fascist leaning began to take hold in Europe. Pretty soon you had two fascist dictators in power. How many million people had to die in the subsequent years to end that shit back then? How many are going to have to die this time?

This is tyranny. This is fascism. But most of all, this is democracy manifest.

Its hardly democracy manifest. Of the 5 Justices that voted to overturn Roe completely 3 were nominated by President Trump who lost the popular vote and a the 4th was nominated by President George W. Bush in President Bush's second term, after President Bush lost the national popular vote in his first term. Chief Justice Roberts, who only wanted to make restrictions after 15 weeks possible, was also nominated by President George W. Bush. So out of the conservatives 6 member majority, 5 were only nominated because of the US's backwards way of electing presidents.

Further Justices Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were all confirmed by Senator's who represented a minority of the US population.

Based of off poling a large majority of Americans wanted Roe to remain in place, not for it to be repealed.

[Torisakia]

This is tyranny. This is fascism. But most of all, this is democracy manifest.

Its hardly democracy manifest. Of the 5 Justices that voted to overturn Roe completely 3 were nominated by President Trump who lost the popular vote and a the 4th was nominated by President George W. Bush in President Bush's second term, after President Bush lost the national popular vote in his first term. Chief Justice Roberts, who only wanted to make restrictions after 15 weeks possible, was also nominated by President George W. Bush. So out of the conservatives 6 member majority, 5 were only nominated because of the US's backwards way of electing presidents.

Further Justices Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were all confirmed by Senator's who represented a minority of the US population.

Based of off poling a large majority of Americans wanted Roe to remain in place, not for it to be repealed.

Look that's cool and all, but I think you missed the reference.

[WayNeacTia]

This is tyranny. This is fascism. But most of all, this is democracy manifest.

Its hardly democracy manifest. Of the 5 Justices that voted to overturn Roe completely 3 were nominated by President Trump who lost the popular vote and a the 4th was nominated by President George W. Bush in President Bush's second term, after President Bush lost the national popular vote in his first term. Chief Justice Roberts, who only wanted to make restrictions after 15 weeks possible, was also nominated by President George W. Bush. So out of the conservatives 6 member majority, 5 were only nominated because of the US's backwards way of electing presidents.

Further Justices Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were all confirmed by Senator's who represented a minority of the US population.

Based of off poling a large majority of Americans wanted Roe to remain in place, not for it to be repealed.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Three of the Justices were appointed by a delusional narcissist who, as the evidence has overwhelming concluded tried to stage a coup to try and subvert an election he lost. This isn't about abortion, it is about politics. How many of the Trumpets on the bench, were in contact with the Trump campaign before issuing that ruling? I am willing to bet all three were. Thomas has close connections to Trump as well. Alito has always been out there in right field, so none of this out of him even comes as a remote shock.

This isn't about rights (although it sure as fuck should be), this is about dividing the American people. A divided people, are easily conquered. Every dictator in history has done it. So once again I ask, how many people are going to have to die this time to end fascism, once and for fucking all?

[Torisakia]

Its hardly democracy manifest. Of the 5 Justices that voted to overturn Roe completely 3 were nominated by President Trump who lost the popular vote and a the 4th was nominated by President George W. Bush in President Bush's second term, after President Bush lost the national popular vote in his first term. Chief Justice Roberts, who only wanted to make restrictions after 15 weeks possible, was also nominated by President George W. Bush. So out of the conservatives 6 member majority, 5 were only nominated because of the US's backwards way of electing presidents.

Further Justices Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were all confirmed by Senator's who represented a minority of the US population.

Based of off poling a large majority of Americans wanted Roe to remain in place, not for it to be repealed.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Three of the Justices were appointed by a delusional narcissist who, as the evidence has overwhelming concluded tried to stage a coup to try and subvert an election he lost. This isn't about abortion, it is about politics. How many of the Trumpets on the bench, were in contact with the Trump campaign before issuing that ruling? I am willing to bet all three were. Thomas has close connections to Trump as well. Alito has always been out there in right field, so none of this out of him even comes as a remote shock.

This isn't about rights (although it sure as fuck should be), this is about dividing the American people. A divided people, are easily conquered. Every dictator in history has done it. So once again I ask, how many people are going to have to die this time to end fascism, once and for fucking all?

Any government is willing to kill the entire population if it means more money for them, not just a fascist one. That's how it will always be. We're all slaves to the government and there's nothing we can do to stop it, no matter how much we try to cope and say we can. It's pointless. Nothing matters anymore.

[Diuhon]

NO, FUCK NO! That is not acceptable! You guys seriously think posterity will think well of the shit we hand them with once we're past retirement age? I DON'T WANT THAT! I WANT THE BEST POSSIBLE FUTURE FOR THEM!

[Torisakia]

NO, FUCK NO! That is not acceptable! You guys seriously think posterity will think well of the shit we hand them with once we're past retirement age? I DON'T WANT THAT! I WANT THE BEST POSSIBLE FUTURE FOR THEM!

>Implying a future generation will exist

lol

[WayNeacTia]

NO, FUCK NO! That is not acceptable! You guys seriously think posterity will think well of the shit we hand them with once we're past retirement age? I DON'T WANT THAT! I WANT THE BEST POSSIBLE FUTURE FOR THEM!

The I would suggest you go vote for someone other than a Republican. They'll hand you your first gun as soon as you pop out of the womb. If the condom breaks on the other hand, you are fucked in more ways than one....

[Prima Scriptura]

What the fuck does any of this help? What does this achieve?

It makes people believe they have scored points for the afterlife, since they have already given up this one.

I was under the impression that you were a Muslim..

[Senkaku]

I used to believe that the SCOTUS had the best interests of the people and the nation in mind.

I’m sorry but people pompously pretending to act mortally shocked that our political institutions aren’t the ultimate fonts of moral virtue in the universe is getting really fucking old lol

[Diuhon]

I used to believe that the SCOTUS had the best interests of the people and the nation in mind.

I’m sorry but people pompously pretending to act mortally shocked that our political institutions aren’t the ultimate fonts of moral virtue in the universe is getting really fucking old lol

Right there lies a generation ready to spurn government altogether instead of making it work for all. You know, the functional opposite of the avowedly minimalist GOP.

[WayNeacTia]

I used to believe that the SCOTUS had the best interests of the people and the nation in mind.

I’m sorry but people pompously pretending to act mortally shocked that our political institutions aren’t the ultimate fonts of moral virtue in the universe is getting really fucking old lol

Awesome. Tell it to someone who give a fuck...

[Senkaku]

I’m sorry but people pompously pretending to act mortally shocked that our political institutions aren’t the ultimate fonts of moral virtue in the universe is getting really fucking old lol

Awesome. Tell it to someone who give a fuck...

The whole point of posting about it is that no one actually will