[Abortion Thread] A Tough Pill To Swallow

[Great Heathen Air Force]

https://tulsaworld.com/video/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-oklahoma-ag-celebrate-roe-v-wade-being-overturned/video_36010b5a-cf8d-5aa6-b81d-d40e628c896a.html

"The womb is now, in Oklahoma, the safest place for a child to be," Oklahoma Attorney General John O'Connor said.

This has to be one of the cringiest and most tone deaf statements I’ve ever heard.

If that's true it speaks very poorly of how Oklahoma treats born children.

Though, in fairness, we knew that already.

[Khurkhogur]

The embryo is not considered living, the fetus is.

I can't think of a way in which that sentence is scientifically justifiable.

Of course the embryo is "living" in the sense that it's made up of living cells. It's not alive on its own though, it's still part of the mother. At least as I understand it. My father is a biochemist/geneticist and according to him, the fetus is independently alive, that's what I'm basing this off of. I'll fully admit that I don't understand all of the science on my own, I'm relying on someone else's experience. What I do know is that life begins during pregnancy. That's for certain.

[Rusozak]

https://tulsaworld.com/video/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-oklahoma-ag-celebrate-roe-v-wade-being-overturned/video_36010b5a-cf8d-5aa6-b81d-d40e628c896a.html

"The womb is now, in Oklahoma, the safest place for a child to be," Oklahoma Attorney General John O'Connor said.

This has to be one of the cringiest and most tone deaf statements I’ve ever heard.

Well that backfired. Tried to gloat about the overturning, but just shows they don't give a shit once the baby is born. He's right, but not in the way he tried to come across.

[Take One For the Roe]

Ah, but therein lies the false dichotomy.

You are absolutely correct; any individual is free to choose not to care for a child, or not to support the elderly. They may choose to allow others to support that burden, or even socialize the costs to their autonomy to the public via the state.

Are those individuals, however, allowed to put down their child, or euthanize their parent, so as to render all costs to their autonomy resolved into nonexistence?

How is a person free to choose to not be pregnant if abortion is illegal?

lol You'd think by this comment the pro-abort side believes in immaculate conception. That one's personal decisions have zero impact on the possibility of getting pregnant. It's apparently a condition that just randomly occurs, that no one can be blamed for. This is extremely simple: Don't do the thing that can get you pregnant if you don't want to get pregnant!

With the exception of rape, you can trace every pregnancy back to a free choice made by the pregnant woman. It doesn't require hardly any intelligence to realize a person IS free to choose not to get pregnant in the absence of abortive options. It's just that pro-aborts apparently can't conceive of the idea of doing something other than acting on their most basic impulses every moment, so they can't conceive of someone actually following abstinence. People apparently can't actually choose whether or not to have sex, and everyone is just a slave to their sexual desires.

This is of course a ridiculous position. A woman can choose (again, rape excepted) whether to engage in activities that can lead to pregnancy. And a fetus has zero impact on its own possibility of existence (it doesn't exist before conception, after all!). So in the vast majority of abortions, the whole ordeal the woman is supposedly trying to get out if is actually a case of the woman tyrannically forcing her will on the fetus. So after conception, it is indeed the duty of the woman to see the pregnancy all the way to birth. She owes it to this newly created being she and her partner brought into existence by their actions. Her opportunity to assert herself was in the bedroom, not in the clinic.

I should also point out there is hardly a person alive who has said, after having children "I wish I never had them." But there are plenty of people who endlessly regret having abortions. Even among the poorest people on Earth, they will say their family is the single most important thing in their lives, the thing that makes them the most happy. Why would we encourage people to get a medical procedure which at best just prevents them from having more joy in their lives, and at worst is the moral equivalent of premeditated murder? There is no need for abortion. It is as much a stain on our generation as slavery was in the generations it existed. End it. Abolish it. And pray future generations will have a more charitable view of us alive today, for at least being around to see the beginning of its end.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

I can't think of a way in which that sentence is scientifically justifiable.

Of course the embryo is "living" in the sense that it's made up of living cells. It's not alive on its own though, it's still part of the mother. At least as I understand it. My father is a biochemist/geneticist and according to him, the fetus is independently alive, that's what I'm basing this off of. I'll fully admit that I don't understand all of the science on my own, I'm relying on someone else's experience. What I do know is that life begins during pregnancy. That's for certain.

From the moment of conception, the fertilised egg is a distinct organism from the mother, not a continuation of her. Only the egg alone is purely of the mother.

[Diuhon]

let's see...

... random truck driver running protesters over, sending 4 to the hospital

... the arizonan state government lobbing teargas at protesters

... riots in fucking los angeles

... some troll in utah telling women to check their "intake in semen"

cool, normal

[San Lumen]

let's see...

... random truck driver running protesters over, sending 4 to the hospital

... the arizonan state government lobbing teargas at protesters

... riots in fucking los angeles

... some troll in utah telling women to check their "intake in semen"

cool, normal

Can you source this stuff?

[Port Caverton]

let's see...

... random truck driver running protesters over, sending 4 to the hospital

... the arizonan state government lobbing teargas at protesters

... riots in fucking los angeles

... some troll in utah telling women to check their "intake in semen"

cool, normal

Looked everything up and all were pretty old news

[Page]

Consent must be continuous, in pregnancy just as in sex. Just because I made a choice at one time does not mean that I can not withdraw at a later time. The fetus doesn't get to use the woman's body without the woman's consent. It really is that simple.

Responsibility>consent
When you make some decisions, you make a commitment and take on responsibility. It's like signing a contract, you can't just back out with no consequences.

Remember that for the next time you get into a car accident. No going to the hospital for stitches and casts, you just let those injuries be, lest you reveal yourself to be a hypocrite.

[Diuhon]

let's see...

... random truck driver running protesters over, sending 4 to the hospital

... the arizonan state government lobbing teargas at protesters

... riots in fucking los angeles

... some troll in utah telling women to check their "intake in semen"

cool, normal

Looked everything up and all were pretty old news

well, i am catching up to the deluge of fuckups the world over

[Diuhon]

Responsibility>consent
When you make some decisions, you make a commitment and take on responsibility. It's like signing a contract, you can't just back out with no consequences.

Remember that for the next time you get into a car accident. No going to the hospital for stitches and casts, you just let those injuries be, lest you reveal yourself to be a hypocrite.

a fetus is different from injury, y'know -- but then again, there's such a thing as a willingness to sign contracts, too

[The Alma Mater]

Consent must be continuous, in pregnancy just as in sex. Just because I made a choice at one time does not mean that I can not withdraw at a later time. The fetus doesn't get to use the woman's body without the woman's consent. It really is that simple.

Responsibility>consent
When you make some decisions, you make a commitment and take on responsibility. It's like signing a contract, you can't just back out with no consequences.

Does that mean that if YOU cause a caraccident, the victim is allowed to use your body for parts?

[Khurkhogur]

Responsibility>consent
When you make some decisions, you make a commitment and take on responsibility. It's like signing a contract, you can't just back out with no consequences.

Remember that for the next time you get into a car accident. No going to the hospital for stitches and casts, you just let those injuries be, lest you reveal yourself to be a hypocrite.

That just doesn't make any sense lmao
Obviously getting rid of a baby is the same thing as fixing a broken nose or arm.
You are right that getting into a car is taking on a certain level of responsibility though. You're liable for harm caused in accidents that are your fault, and you don't just get to decide that you're not. That's where your analogy would work.
Sorry, posted this from a puppet nation on accident a minute ago

[Great Heathen Air Force]

I can't think of a way in which that sentence is scientifically justifiable.

Of course the embryo is "living" in the sense that it's made up of living cells. It's not alive on its own though, it's still part of the mother. At least as I understand it. My father is a biochemist/geneticist and according to him, the fetus is independently alive, that's what I'm basing this off of. I'll fully admit that I don't understand all of the science on my own, I'm relying on someone else's experience. What I do know is that life begins during pregnancy. That's for certain.

I'll try to give your father the benefit of the doubt, but I don't know at all what he's talking about. Neither is "alive on its own," they're both extremely dependent upon the mother. Although a very early stage blastocyst is probably more independent. It hasn't implanted yet, so it's technically completely separate from the mother's tissues (although obviously still inside her body), and it isn't nutritionally dependent upon the mother. Whereas a fetus is very heavily integrated in. With a placenta that is comprised of a combination of their two tissues. And a fetus gets all of it's nutrition from the mother.

A fetus that is "alive on its own" is, well... born.

Oh, and if we're dueling parent credentials, then my mother actually happens to be Obstetrician-Gynecologist. For real. I don't usually bring it up, because I don't think it's relevant. But here we are.

[Celritannia]

Of course the embryo is "living" in the sense that it's made up of living cells. It's not alive on its own though, it's still part of the mother. At least as I understand it. My father is a biochemist/geneticist and according to him, the fetus is independently alive, that's what I'm basing this off of. I'll fully admit that I don't understand all of the science on my own, I'm relying on someone else's experience. What I do know is that life begins during pregnancy. That's for certain.

From the moment of conception, the fertilised egg is a distinct organism from the mother, not a continuation of her. Only the egg alone is purely of the mother.

It hasn't even begun to form after immediate insemination.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Of course the embryo is "living" in the sense that it's made up of living cells. It's not alive on its own though, it's still part of the mother. At least as I understand it. My father is a biochemist/geneticist and according to him, the fetus is independently alive, that's what I'm basing this off of. I'll fully admit that I don't understand all of the science on my own, I'm relying on someone else's experience. What I do know is that life begins during pregnancy. That's for certain.

From the moment of conception, the fertilised egg is a distinct organism from the mother, not a continuation of her. Only the egg alone is purely of the mother.

And you wonder why Obgyns hate this nonsense.

[Khurkhogur]

I'll try to give your father the benefit of the doubt, but I don't know at all what he's talking about.

He knows what he's talking about, it's definitely me that's misrepresenting exactly what he said. In any case, when we were discussing abortion his view was that abortion is fine before the embryo turns into a fetus. I trust him to judge when it's morally ok to abort vs. when it isn't.

[San Lumen]

https://tulsaworld.com/video/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-oklahoma-ag-celebrate-roe-v-wade-being-overturned/video_36010b5a-cf8d-5aa6-b81d-d40e628c896a.html

"The womb is now, in Oklahoma, the safest place for a child to be," Oklahoma Attorney General John O'Connor said.

This has to be one of the cringiest and most tone deaf statements I’ve ever heard.

If that's true it speaks very poorly of how Oklahoma treats born children.

Though, in fairness, we knew that already.

It’s also a beyond cringy and despicable statement.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

https://tulsaworld.com/video/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-oklahoma-ag-celebrate-roe-v-wade-being-overturned/video_36010b5a-cf8d-5aa6-b81d-d40e628c896a.html

"The womb is now, in Oklahoma, the safest place for a child to be," Oklahoma Attorney General John O'Connor said.

This has to be one of the cringiest and most tone deaf statements I’ve ever heard.

If that's true it speaks very poorly of how Oklahoma treats born children.

Though, in fairness, we knew that already.

Daily reminder that Oklahoma has a gaping loophole in its marital rape laws.

[Great Heathen Air Force]

I'll try to give your father the benefit of the doubt, but I don't know at all what he's talking about.

He knows what he's talking about, it's definitely me that's misrepresenting exactly what he said. In any case, when we were discussing abortion his view was that abortion is fine before the embryo turns into a fetus.

Presumably you understand why this is not compelling though, right?

You haven't given us a good argument. You haven't given us the words of an authority. You've just told us that there is an authority (trust me), and you can't remember what he said, but he definitely agrees with your position (trust me.)

Whereas I can think of many good reasons why the dividing line of "fetus" is strange and arbitrary. I'm not trying to mock you. I mean that sincerely. But I can't take your position seriously.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Time to install six giant penises before each and every one of these so-called scotus ppl's houses who decided that slavery is ok in 2022.

[The Black Forrest]

https://tulsaworld.com/video/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-oklahoma-ag-celebrate-roe-v-wade-being-overturned/video_36010b5a-cf8d-5aa6-b81d-d40e628c896a.html

"The womb is now, in Oklahoma, the safest place for a child to be," Oklahoma Attorney General John O'Connor said.

This has to be one of the cringiest and most tone deaf statements I’ve ever heard.

Interesting. I wonder why they would do with a case of a pregnancy moving along except there is no head. Just enough of a brain stem to keep things going. Not a threat to the mother what are they going to do? Granted it’s rare condition. My mom was involved with that case….over 40 years in labor and delivery….

Safest place for a womb? Guy probably didn’t get much on the GF front.

What is fascinating is all the compassion talk? They haven’t been doing that for 45+ years. Why would they start now?…….it’s bullshit…..

[Port Caverton]

Time to install six giant penises before each and every one of these so-called scotus ppl who decided that slavery is ok in 2022.

This implies Dems will do something other than complain on Twitter or beg like a crackhead hobo

[Khurkhogur]

Presumably you understand why this is not compelling though, right?
You haven't given us a good argument. You haven't given us the words of an authority. You've just told us that there is an authority (trust me), and you can't remember what he said, but he definitely agrees with your position (trust me.)
Whereas I can think of many good reasons why the dividing line of "fetus" is strange and arbitrary. I'm not trying to mock you. I mean that sincerely. But I can't take your position seriously.

I can understand why you can't take my specific position seriously, although I still hold to it and I will talk to him about this later so I can actually go over the position properly.
But when it comes to the general notion of life beginning during pregnancy, I don't think you can ignore that. It's a point I think the pro-abortion side needs to address.
And of course they have, but the main argument (bodily autonomy means the fetus has no right to a woman's body) is one I (and pretty much everyone on the anti-abortion side) fundamentally disagree with on moral grounds. So I guess there's no real purpose to arguing over it

[Eros Prime]

...why?

because it's the only way to change shit nowadays. it's been demonstrated that being peaceful doesn't work, because when you're peaceful you get tested with chemical weapons or beaten half to death. when you're peaceful, you get run over by a truck or shot at.

reform is dead. revolution is necessary.

something something "everything under heaven"

Then go revolt, instead of complaining about it online