Hot Takes Discussion II: NATO is the Greatest Thing Ever

[The Tusken Clans]

This went kinda out of hand. Maybe we should retire to more edgy shitpo... hot takes now.

Hot Take: The Ukraine conflict will dind down over the nextr few years with nobody really winning and things devolving like most wars the media already forgot about.

Not really a hot take, a hot take is something like “Russia should win”, this is just a possibility

[HISPIDA]

1. no he didn't
2. which, fun fact, had a maximum sentence of 10 years and primarily held prisoners already imprisoned by the tsardom and provisional government. political prisoners were an incredibly small minority in the gulag system, and the gulag system itself had a shocking low 2-4% mortality rate and an incredibly high rehabilitation turnover. the book gulag archipelago was even admitted by solzhenitsyn's wife to be a huge load of propaganda and straight-up lies. gulag prisoners were allowed annual two-week vacations to go back home, their savings were allowed to be sent to their families, 80% of all gulag cases were decided by citizens, freedom of movement was allowed in gulag systems, prisoners were allowed to publish newspapers, et cetera, et cetera. i suggest you read up on the gulag system, this is good but pretty biased in favor but with really good sources

Ever heard of a road in Russia paved by the bones of dead people because when they died of starvation from working they just fell into the pavement and their bones were added in? Also it was built in Soviet times

yeah, prove it. that just screams of propaganda

also nice job not talking about literally anything i said

[The House of Hamid]

Wikipedia isn't a source for anything at all, by basic conceptual design.

Were I to find an article from...the UN, or some other similar international organization, that proved the existence of the Armenian Genocide, what would you do?

Define "genocide". The allied blockade against the central powers killed over 2.5 million civillians, was that Genocide too? Or just Warfare?

[Free Ravensburg]

You know what’s weird teachers don’t like Wikipedia but Britannica is somehow acceptable. Aren’t they the same thing.

No, one you have to pay for, plus they believe that people will edit it, but forget the sources down at the bottom

[Khurkhogur]

Neutral scholarship on the subject mostly perpetrated by western media and European/American sources which all agree with the American propaganda due to relation

First of all, you yourself said that America values Turkey as an ally. There is no reason why the US government would have any interest in promoting such propaganda, so I have no idea wtf you think you're talking about
Second of all, scholarly sources in democratic countries write whatever they want, which means that they're not pumping out propaganda. It's only in highly-nationalistic or dictatorial countries where the scholarship is obviously biased.

[Khurkhogur]

Ever heard of a road in Russia paved by the bones of dead people because when they died of starvation from working they just fell into the pavement and their bones were added in? Also it was built in Soviet times

"All the scholarship from the US and Europe is propaganda"
"rOad MAdE oF dEaD peOplE sUpeR reLiABlE"
Edit: he said the road paved over people's bones, that's actually believable
I thought he was saying the road was literally filled in with bones lmao
Still, you're so obviously massively biased. You'll believe any claim that's negative about Stalin or communism but the second it comes to anyone else you're spouting about propaganda. Get a grip.

[Untecna]

So... I have a feeling they might start screaming New World Order in a few seconds

[The House of Hamid]

"All the scholarship from the US and Europe is propaganda"

Hell, this makes me miss our Maoist, Huakhalia or what his name was. Red Sun anyone?

[Red Lake Circle]

Ever heard of a road in Russia paved by the bones of dead people because when they died of starvation from working they just fell into the pavement and their bones were added in? Also it was built in Soviet times

"All the scholarship from the US and Europe is propaganda"
"rOad MAdE oF dEaD peOplE sUpeR reLiABlE"
Edit: he said the road paved over people's bones, that's actually believable
I thought he was saying the road was literally filled in with bones lmao

Still, not exactly from a trustworthy scholarly source, is it?

[Khurkhogur]

Still, not exactly from a trustworthy scholarly source, is it?

No it's from reliable super confirmed source borther

[Mets Hayk]

Were I to find an article from...the UN, or some other similar international organization, that proved the existence of the Armenian Genocide, what would you do?

Define "genocide". The allied blockade against the central powers killed over 2.5 million civillians, was that Genocide too? Or just Warfare?

From Wikipedia (Bolded is mine):

The Armenian genocide[a] was the systematic destruction of the Armenian people and identity in the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Spearheaded by the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), it was implemented primarily through the mass murder of around one million Armenians during death marches to the Syrian Desert and the forced Islamization of Armenian women and children.

Replace Armenian with Jewish, the Ottoman Empire with most of Europe, get rid of the bit about World War I, replace the CUP with the Nazi Party (or really ANY fascist party at the time), and take out the bits of forced Islamization (and replace the Syrian desert with...just anywhere in general); and you've got the Holocaust.

---

Look what I found here...

[Free Algerstonia]

WIKIPEDIA is an Armenian propaganda source? Consider me surprised.

WIKIPEDIA is an internationally built internet hub where ANYONE WITH AN ACCOUNT can edit it

unironically this, wikipedia is very untrustworthy. an outright hoax about a fictitious war between the maratha empire and the british lasted eight years and was vetted to the point of it receiving good article status, which around 0.5% of all articles have. generally, the more fringe the topic, the worse the article likely is in terms of bias due to less editors interested in the subject.

[Washington Resistance Army]

WIKIPEDIA is an internationally built internet hub where ANYONE WITH AN ACCOUNT can edit it

unironically this, wikipedia is very untrustworthy. an outright hoax about a fictitious war between the maratha empire and the british lasted eight years and was vetted to the point of it receiving good article status, which around 0.5% of all articles have. generally, the more fringe the topic, the worse the article likely is in terms of bias due to less editors interested in the subject.

A good thing the Armenian genocide is not a fringe topic lol

[Khurkhogur]

Here's a source from the 70s detailing the historiography of the Armenian genocide. It's not biased, it looks at the work of both Turkish and Armenian historians, and it's most certainly not propaganda. Since you want an "unbiased" (read: supports my position) account of things so much.

[The Tusken Clans]

Ever heard of a road in Russia paved by the bones of dead people because when they died of starvation from working they just fell into the pavement and their bones were added in? Also it was built in Soviet times

yeah, prove it. that just screams of propaganda
also nice job not talking about literally anything i said

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R504_Kolyma_Highway, it’s a Wikipedia page about a highway, it can’t be propaganda, it’s about a HIGHWAY, a stretch of road, read it in full, the there’s a lot of sources on the one talking about the bones

[Free Algerstonia]

unironically this, wikipedia is very untrustworthy. an outright hoax about a fictitious war between the maratha empire and the british lasted eight years and was vetted to the point of it receiving good article status, which around 0.5% of all articles have. generally, the more fringe the topic, the worse the article likely is in terms of bias due to less editors interested in the subject.

A good thing the Armenian genocide is not a fringe topic lol

fringe? no. but it is very contentious and there are all sorts of ethnic nationalists disrupting the area, i highly doubt it's presented neutrally. full disclosure so i don't get yelled at for being a secret turkish nationalist, i fully believe the armenian genocide happened and was a truly horrific genocide against a whole people and i condemn it in the strongest possible terms. but it's a bit hard to think that the articles are neutral due to how contentious it is.

[The Front Range]

WIKIPEDIA is an internationally built internet hub where ANYONE WITH AN ACCOUNT can edit it

unironically this, wikipedia is very untrustworthy. an outright hoax about a fictitious war between the maratha empire and the british lasted eight years and was vetted to the point of it receiving good article status, which around 0.5% of all articles have. generally, the more fringe the topic, the worse the article likely is in terms of bias due to less editors interested in the subject.

So the article on quackery is unreliable since it covers multiple fringe topics?

[The Front Range]

Were I to find an article from...the UN, or some other similar international organization, that proved the existence of the Armenian Genocide, what would you do?

Define "genocide". The allied blockade against the central powers killed over 2.5 million civillians, was that Genocide too? Or just Warfare?

gen·o·cide
/ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group
"a campaign of genocide"

[Washington Resistance Army]

A good thing the Armenian genocide is not a fringe topic lol

fringe? no. but it is very contentious and there are all sorts of ethnic nationalists disrupting the area, i highly doubt it's presented neutrally. full disclosure so i don't get yelled at for being a secret turkish nationalist, i fully believe the armenian genocide happened and was a truly horrific genocide against a whole people and i condemn it in the strongest possible terms. but it's a bit hard to think that the articles are neutral due to how contentious it is.

It really isn't contentious tbh. The only people who actively deny it happened are Turkish ultranationalists who don't want to admit their country has done anything bad. It's just a more mainstream version of holocaust denial because the parties that spout the viewpoints are popular in Turkey.

[Free Algerstonia]

fringe? no. but it is very contentious and there are all sorts of ethnic nationalists disrupting the area, i highly doubt it's presented neutrally. full disclosure so i don't get yelled at for being a secret turkish nationalist, i fully believe the armenian genocide happened and was a truly horrific genocide against a whole people and i condemn it in the strongest possible terms. but it's a bit hard to think that the articles are neutral due to how contentious it is.

It really isn't contentious tbh. The only people who actively deny it happened are Turkish ultranationalists who don't want to admit their country has done anything bad. It's just a more mainstream version of holocaust denial because the parties that spout the viewpoints are popular in Turkey.

and those turkish ultranationalists basically have megaphones due to how many of them try to disrupt the armenian genocide on wikipedia. i'm talking about contentious in wikipedia due to how many ethnic nationalists edit in the area, not in real life where it's very fringe to deny the armenian genocide.

[HISPIDA]

yeah, prove it. that just screams of propaganda
also nice job not talking about literally anything i said

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R504_Kolyma_Highway, it’s a Wikipedia page about a highway, it can’t be propaganda, it’s about a HIGHWAY, a stretch of road, read it in full, the there’s a lot of sources on the one talking about the bones

Secret police authorities in Kolyma today say there are records

Even historians who have spent years studying Kolyma come up with radically different numbers

need quotation to verify

literally none of the sources in the wikipedia article link back to anything substantial except for books i can't get my hands on, unfortunately. still, i doubt they were "buried under the road" and i sincerely doubt it was millions like anti-communists claim. still, i'll admit it's possible that a large number of gulag workers died building the road.

also, wikipedia's perfectly valid when used to discredit socialism, but not when to prove actual genocides. huh. imagine that.

[The House of Hamid]

Define "genocide". The allied blockade against the central powers killed over 2.5 million civillians, was that Genocide too? Or just Warfare?

From Wikipedia (Bolded is mine):

The Armenian genocide[a] was the systematic destruction of the Armenian people and identity in the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Spearheaded by the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), it was implemented primarily through the mass murder of around one million Armenians during death marches to the Syrian Desert and the forced Islamization of Armenian women and children.

Replace Armenian with Jewish, the Ottoman Empire with most of Europe, the CUP with the Nazi Party (or really ANY fascist party at the time), and take out the bits of forced Islamization; and you've got the Holocaust

---

Look what I found here...

Armenian National Committee? Really?

And again we go with the İttihat ve Terakki bashing... And oh look, the number changed again, let me guess, the source is older? Forgot to figure in inflation?
Systematic Destruction you say... while even your wikipedia article only mentions resettlement, something pretty common in that era. Something the Armenian SSR practiced themselves, just ask the Azeri. Your "sources" are the equivalent of me quoting the Enver-simps of todays erdoganite Turkey! Funny that, even Erdos AKP bashes the İttihat ve Terakki. Where, I ask, does warfare, do anti-terrorist measures stop and does "Genocide" begin? Was it a genocide of the english to kill over 2.5 million Austro-Hungarian and German civillians in WW1 by their naval blockade? Is it an illegal murder when the USA bomb a Terrorist leader in his lair? The Ermeni ARF was actively engaged in terrorist action against the Ottoman Empire since the 1890s. Most of the time with the nation that was bent on destroying said empire and that was the direct enemy of it in WW1! Do you want me to post from the nonsense the Iğdır Genocide Memorial and Museum puts out? To quote blatantly nationalist sources alone like you do?

Again, I never denied the measures of the Ottoman Empire resulted in civillian casualties...war is not exactly a game after all. As Atatürk himself said: "War, when not the life of the nation is in peril, is murder." - but you go and insult the founder of our state! The man that made turkish democracy possible and brought it to greatness! I said it before, this is the equivalent of calling George Washington a drug-addicted Pimp what you did there, you piss all over our great People and Nation! You insult the turkish people and the turkish nation. What would happen in here, would I regard the USa the way you do the Turkish Republic? Again and again you insult my homeland! Well excuse me, but I do take exception to that idea.

[Red Lake Circle]

From Wikipedia (Bolded is mine):


Replace Armenian with Jewish, the Ottoman Empire with most of Europe, the CUP with the Nazi Party (or really ANY fascist party at the time), and take out the bits of forced Islamization; and you've got the Holocaust

---

Look what I found here...

Armenian National Committee? Really?

And again we go with the İttihat ve Terakki bashing... And oh look, the number changed again, let me guess, the source is older? Forgot to figure in inflation?
Systematic Destruction you say... while even your wikipedia article only mentions resettlement, something pretty common in that era. Something the Armenian SSR practiced themselves, just ask the Azeri. Your "sources" are the equivalent of me quoting the Enver-simps of todays erdoganite Turkey! Funny that, even Erdos AKP bashes the İttihat ve Terakki. Where, I ask, does warfare, do anti-terrorist measures stop and does "Genocide" begin? Was it a genocide of the english to kill over 2.5 million Austro-Hungarian and German civillians in WW1 by their naval blockade? Is it an illegal murder when the USA bomb a Terrorist leader in his lair? The Ermeni ARF was actively engaged in terrorist action against the Ottoman Empire since the 1890s. Most of the time with the nation that was bent on destroying said empire and that was the direct enemy of it in WW1! Do you want me to post from the nonsense the Iğdır Genocide Memorial and Museum puts out? To quote blatantly nationalist sources alone like you do?

Again, I never denied the measures of the Ottoman Empire resulted in civillian casualties...war is not exactly a game after all. As Atatürk himself said: "War, when not the life of the nation is in peril, is murder." - but you go and insult the founder of our state! The man that made turkish democracy possible and brought it to greatness! I said it before, this is the equivalent of calling George Washington a drug-addicted Pimp what you did there, you piss all over our great People and Nation! You insult the turkish people and the turkish nation. What would happen in here, would I regard the USa the way you do the Turkish Republic? Again and again you insult my homeland! Well excuse me, but I do take exception to that idea.

You have missed soooo much shit regarding the Armenian Genocide since you presumably started typing this up lmao

Also, please proceed calling George Washington a drug-addicted pimp, it’s extremely funny

[Washington Resistance Army]

Again, I never denied the measures of the Ottoman Empire resulted in civillian casualties...war is not exactly a game after all. As Atatürk himself said: "War, when not the life of the nation is in peril, is murder." - but you go and insult the founder of our state! The man that made turkish democracy possible and brought it to greatness! I said it before, this is the equivalent of calling George Washington a drug-addicted Pimp what you did there, you piss all over our great People and Nation! You insult the turkish people and the turkish nation. What would happen in here, would I regard the USa the way you do the Turkish Republic? Again and again you insult my homeland! Well excuse me, but I do take exception to that idea.

Bro people insult George Washington all the time for being a slave holding piece of shit lol, nobody cares. This is a trait unique to you and Turkish nationalists.

[The House of Hamid]

Also, please proceed calling George Washington a drug-addicted pimp, it’s extremely funny

siktir git, commie.