Neoconservatism Discussion Thread

[Port Caverton]

"A neoconservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality" -Irving Kristol

So I decided that it was time to make a thread about one of the most influential ideologies in recent decades. An ideology that gave F R E E D O M to various countries around the globe, including Kosovo and Iraq.

Now, for those who don't know what neoconservatism is, neoconservatism is an ideology that promotes interventionism in foreign affairs, including military intervention, to spread democracy, large military budgets to defend the nation and its allies from threats and peace through strength . Neocons support the free market and free trade, but also a limited welfare state. In domestic affairs, they tend to support traditional gender roles, opposition to abortion, the nuclear family, among other socially conservative positions. Finally, neoconservatives are know for their disdain of communism and political radicalism.

Notable neoconservatives include journalist Irving "The godfather of neoconservatism" Kristol, former president of the US George Walker Bush, former US ambassador to the UN Jeane Duane Kirkpatrick, among others.

This thread is meant for discussion of the ideology itself, politicians and parties supportive of the ideology and neoconservative policies.

[Uiiop]

Neo conservatism either has failed utterly or is unable to be truly implemented. If it's only contribution of note is either the Iraq/afghan wars and related policy and/or being apologist for the makers of them only to find out "Oops they didn't count as really a part of us" then all that just discredits them now matter how good punching dictators sound to me.

[Washington Resistance Army]

An idea better left in the past. Really the only thing it contributed to the world is the destruction of Iraq and a completely nonsensical attempt at nation building in Afghanistan.

[Port Caverton]

Neo conservatism either has failed utterly or is unable to be truly implemented. If it's only contribution of note is either the Iraq/afghan and/or being apologist for the makers of them only to find out "Oops they didn't count as really a part of us" then all that just discredits them now matter how punching dictators sound to me.

Has anybody ever said that? All the neocons that I've seen online defend those interventions as if their life depended on it, I haven't seen anyone go "That wasn't real Neoconservatism!"

[Anglecia]

Now, for those who don't know what neoconservatism is, neoconservatism is an ideology that promotes interventionism in foreign affairs, including military intervention, to spread democracy, large military budgets to defend the nation and its allies from threats and peace through strength . Neocons support the free market and free trade, but also a limited welfare state. In domestic affairs, they tend to support traditional gender roles, opposition to abortion, the nuclear family, among other socially conservative positions. Finally, neoconservatives are know for their disdain of communism and political radicalism.

No disrespect, but this reads entirely like a paraphrasing of Wikipedia, especially regarding the "limited welfare state" part. Neoconservatives would shy away from such a term and instead promote social security, rejecting the social engineering that they posit comes along with a "welfare state". Further, the "interventionism... to spread democracy" part is a HUGE misunderstanding. No neoconservative would advocate military intervention for spreading democracy and spreading democracy alone. Neoconservatism is idealism without illusions. Unless it was actually beneficial to their country's strategic interests, no neoconservative would advocate the use of military force to spread democracy.

[Uiiop]

Neo conservatism either has failed utterly or is unable to be truly implemented. If it's only contribution of note is either the Iraq/afghan and/or being apologist for the makers of them only to find out "Oops they didn't count as really a part of us" then all that just discredits them now matter how punching dictators sound to me.

Has anybody ever said that? All the neocons that I've seen online defend those interventions as if their life depended on it, I haven't seen anyone go "That wasn't real Neoconservatism!"

Forgive me for steelmanning their argument then. Because I've only seen mortal justification for acting at all rather than any engagement with the what the actions actually were . It seems nicer to assume dissociation rather than apologia for war crimes.

Saddam sucks and i'm happy we killed him. That doesn't change the fact the ideology is just an cheerleading squad for failed actions and torture.

[Meadowfields]

An idea better left in the past. Really the only thing it contributed to the world is the destruction of Iraq and a completely nonsensical attempt at nation building in Afghanistan.

...along with the dictatorships they installed via Operation Condor.

[Farnhamia]

Once we had a Right-Wing Discussion Thread and a Left-Wing Discussion Thread and neither of them ended well. They each devolved into echo chambers, visited occasionally by others, friends or foes. They were closed and since this thread would fit into the Right-Wing thread, it, too, closed. Please do not repost.