Is it morally correct to dislike ones parents for creation?

[Salus Maior]

This thread is toxic af.

[Gothian Crimea]

If you weren't created, you wouldn't be able to hate them. If you wish you weren't act like you weren't and thus don't hate them,

[Page]

Let's suppose we have John, whose life was misery and woe, and Joan, whose life was also misery and woe.

Suppose that John's parents birthed him for the explicit purpose of eating popcorn while he struggled through life, whereas Joan's parents had high hopes and worried themselves into early graves.

John's parents are problematic. Joan's are not.

Intention... matters.

It doesn't. We all think intention matters until something happens to us that causes us to suffer, and then we realize it doesn't.

If I'm hit by a car that breaks 100 of my bones, I don't give the slightest shit whether I was hit by a drunk driver or an ISIS terrorist or someone rushing to the hospital because they were having a deadly allergic reaction. I'm in the same hospital bed in the same pain.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Yes it is a person’s responsibility to do something if their life is miserable however if one feels like living said life is nothing but an endless cycle of things one would rather not be doing who else but parents can be held responsible for that?

Society, politicians, wealthy businessmen, etc. Unless your parents caused those things to be necessary, it isn't their fault that those things need to be done.

My parents are responsible for bringing me into this world, which was their decision made without my consent. Having children is an immoral decision which was already discussed by me before (Benatar and stuff)

[Esternial]

The act of bringing a life into this world is neither morally wrong or right in my book. It depends a lot on the motives. Extremes are probably the easiest to understand.

Two people that are so in love and want to bring a product of that love into this world? I would certainly not call that morally wrong. While bringing a child into this world is an inherently selfish act on the part of the parents, something is not immediately wrong because it is selfish. Sometimes you need to look out for yourself and are wholly justified in doing so. If you bring a child into this world because you love your partner and you would love to raise a child, I see it as a morally positive act.

Two people that want to cash in on child welfare from the state? Certainly morally wrong.

Given that motive behind the act so heavily influences the morality, at least to me, I would say it's overall moral grey area. You can blame your parents for bringing you into this world, but that does not make that action immoral per se. You are just one moral actor among many others, and believing you resenting your parents can dictate morality is perhaps a bit much.

Your parents fucked, you were born. They didn't specify create you so your life sucks. You may as well hate the sun for shinning, or rain for being wet. Both are unnatural and are best treated by a medical. Your shitty life is on you. Your responsibility to do something about it, not your parents, not the state, you.

People are not born “just cause”- after all unexpected pregnancies are somewhat rarer than expected ones. Yes it is a person’s responsibility to do something if their life is miserable however if one feels like living said life is nothing but an endless cycle of things one would rather not be doing who else but parents can be held responsible for that? It were their actions who have led to this result after all

If my car breaks down due to faulty wiring I shouldn't blame the copper mine that sourced the copper in said wires.

The car company that assembled that car from the building blocks they were given carries most - if not all - of the blame (or one of the companies that sourced those parts).

This to say our parents don't control all the circumstances in which we're born. Depending on those you can put some blame on your parents (e.g. having a child while living in squalor) but it depends on the situation.

[Cannot think of a name]

No one would have a shitty life if they were never born.

Your parents fucked, you were born. They didn't specify create you so your life sucks. You may as well hate the sun for shinning, or rain for being wet. Both are unnatural and are best treated by a medical. Your shitty life is on you. Your responsibility to do something about it, not your parents, not the state, you.

What if they fucked to produce a child in a feeble attempt to save their deteriating relationship? And now this drooling crawling bad idea has to go through life with the most formative early years being taken care of by people who really should have gone their separate ways? They didn't create life out of an impulse to create a new generation to carry whatever on, they did a thing they assumed they had to in the hope that it would make everything okay. And eventually this bad idea who you now have to feed and buy clothes for will eventually become hip to the fact that they were born in a failed attempt to save a relationship that shouldn't have been saved so that before you even said a word or pooped in a toilet by yourself, you were a disappointment? And now you have to fucking stumble through life, a failed experiment and find some kind of meaning or purpose in it because if we don't we're 'broken'.

Can we blame the parents then?

Or if they were very young and wanted a baby in the same way they wanted a dolly or a pet without any consideration that they will be responsible for that little thing for 18 years and it will only be a baby for like a third of it if you stretch. They didn't have the means or a plan beyond a cute thing they could show off to friends and family and created a life they couldn't possibly be responsible for and now this shambling husk of too soon and not enough has to pretend to have purpose or they're 'broken'.

Surely we can blame the parents for being born in this case? Or any scenario where the conceiving of a child had little to do with actually considering the responsibility or purpose in raising a child to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine etc etc.

[Cannot think of a name]

It's like hating flowers for your hay fever...but then I am allergic to and hate wasps, so... hm.

Yeah, but wasps are nature's biggest assholes so...

No one likes wasps. Or WASPs for that matter...

[Laka Strolistandiler]

To add up to the discussion I’d like to note that life can be compared to a white elephant of some sort- it comes alongside many responsibilities and obligations and one would rather not deal with said obligations, but guess what- there is no escape because suicide is frowned upon.

[Katganistan]

Yes. Nobody consents to being born. Its a decision made for us.

Some in this country don't want to allow women to need to consent to being incubators. They wish to force all fetuses born whether or not that means torturous conditions for the unborn after birth, whether or not either of the parents actually wants to be a parent. Maybe concentrate your ire there.

Procreation is morally wrong and I will stand by that statement. Solomon says it the best:

Ecclesiastes 4:2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive
Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun

I truly believe it is better to have never been born than to exist in this world.

Well if we're going to be all biblical, God said to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiple. I think God outranks Solomon, don't you?

If someone wishes they had not been born, they probably should seek professional help.

I disagree. We shouldn't simply categorize anyone who doesn't enjoy life as mentally ill.

I disagree. Unhappiness without cause other than "I exist. fuck my parents for having me" is definitely not a sign of mental wellness.

Their is a difference between not enjoying life and holding it against your parents for being born. The former does not always require professional support.

If you believe that your mere existence was a mistake, you should probably seek help to avoid entering a negative spiral and committing suicide.

We should categorize depression as a mental illness, because it is one. It has serious mental and even physical implications and can often lead to suicide.

Here's what I think. We all have the "right to life". A right means you don't have to exercise it. For example, the right to freedom of speech means you don't have to protest, but the option to do so is there. Similarly, the "right to life" means we should have the right to end our lives. People who don't like living should have the right to euthanasia.

What's stopping the proverbial-and-not--directed-at-you? The fact that we do have a word for killing oneself shows that the concept and practice exist.

[Atlantic Isles]

Meh. Getting upset at something you can’t change?…..not worth the effort. What’s done is done. What you do with yourself is all the matters….

This is hands-down the best and truest thing I’ve read on the internet in a while.

[Lemsrow]

Well, no.

Parents are responsible for discipline of the child, but they don’t have a choice whether pregnancy pops up 5 months later or 5 years later. And as for “disliking one’s parents for one’s actions.”, I don’t think people have a brain, like you think we are all honestly hive minds?

But what about the Serial Killer gene some people might ask? Not real. But I’m honestly too lazy to give sources so I guess search it up on Google.

Like, try to change something that’s been always there for thousands of year? Are you trying to make a world where all of the populace is made by vats?

[Emotional Support Crocodile]

If I was considering becoming a parent now, climate change would really be making me think twice. If your parents are Trump voting, climate change deniers, with an illegally modified diesel truck... well if in thirty years you decide to take them into the middle of a desert and abandon them to the elements I could be sympathetic.

[Salus Maior]

Society, politicians, wealthy businessmen, etc. Unless your parents caused those things to be necessary, it isn't their fault that those things need to be done.

My parents are responsible for bringing me into this world, which was their decision made without my consent. Having children is an immoral decision which was already discussed by me before (Benatar and stuff)

That's a really sick way of thinking, frankly.

Thinking this way is only going to make your mental health worse.

[Salus Maior]

To add up to the discussion I’d like to note that life can be compared to a white elephant of some sort- it comes alongside many responsibilities and obligations and one would rather not deal with said obligations, but guess what- there is no escape because suicide is frowned upon.

Nobody who has ever committed suicide has cared about it being "frowned upon", because what does anyone else's opinion matter when you're dead?

That's not the real reason you haven't committed suicide. You haven't committed suicide because somewhere deep down you're still attached to life. You're deeply depressed and simply angry and grieved at your circumstances, and you're lashing out at anything you can to express that. I know that because I've been there too.

Your parents are not responsible for your present hardship simply for having you. That is not what's made your life the way it is, and I'm sure your parents never wanted you to be in the dark place you are now. Imagine if we could claim anyone was responsible for something they're not directly responsible for and did not intend? For example, imagine someone read your position here, agreed with it, and committed suicide. Are you responsible for their death? Could the police come to your door and charge you with their death?

[Salus Maior]

Your parents fucked, you were born. They didn't specify create you so your life sucks. You may as well hate the sun for shinning, or rain for being wet. Both are unnatural and are best treated by a medical. Your shitty life is on you. Your responsibility to do something about it, not your parents, not the state, you.

What if they fucked to produce a child in a feeble attempt to save their deteriating relationship? And now this drooling crawling bad idea has to go through life with the most formative early years being taken care of by people who really should have gone their separate ways? They didn't create life out of an impulse to create a new generation to carry whatever on, they did a thing they assumed they had to in the hope that it would make everything okay. And eventually this bad idea who you now have to feed and buy clothes for will eventually become hip to the fact that they were born in a failed attempt to save a relationship that shouldn't have been saved so that before you even said a word or pooped in a toilet by yourself, you were a disappointment? And now you have to fucking stumble through life, a failed experiment and find some kind of meaning or purpose in it because if we don't we're 'broken'.

Can we blame the parents then?

Or if they were very young and wanted a baby in the same way they wanted a dolly or a pet without any consideration that they will be responsible for that little thing for 18 years and it will only be a baby for like a third of it if you stretch. They didn't have the means or a plan beyond a cute thing they could show off to friends and family and created a life they couldn't possibly be responsible for and now this shambling husk of too soon and not enough has to pretend to have purpose or they're 'broken'.

Surely we can blame the parents for being born in this case? Or any scenario where the conceiving of a child had little to do with actually considering the responsibility or purpose in raising a child to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine etc etc.

Let's say you could blame parents for being born, what does this actually do and how does it help anyone?

There's literally nothing that can be done about being born, getting angry about it is just being angry about something completely outside of your control and cannot be undone. That's not a route to a healthier mindset.

You might as well get angry at the Big Bang, or the fact the Earth materialized.

[Adamede]

This thread is toxic af.

Generally what tends to happen when the subject matter is pretty specificlly about the dark recesses of one's depression.

[Cannot think of a name]

What if they fucked to produce a child in a feeble attempt to save their deteriating relationship? And now this drooling crawling bad idea has to go through life with the most formative early years being taken care of by people who really should have gone their separate ways? They didn't create life out of an impulse to create a new generation to carry whatever on, they did a thing they assumed they had to in the hope that it would make everything okay. And eventually this bad idea who you now have to feed and buy clothes for will eventually become hip to the fact that they were born in a failed attempt to save a relationship that shouldn't have been saved so that before you even said a word or pooped in a toilet by yourself, you were a disappointment? And now you have to fucking stumble through life, a failed experiment and find some kind of meaning or purpose in it because if we don't we're 'broken'.

Can we blame the parents then?

Or if they were very young and wanted a baby in the same way they wanted a dolly or a pet without any consideration that they will be responsible for that little thing for 18 years and it will only be a baby for like a third of it if you stretch. They didn't have the means or a plan beyond a cute thing they could show off to friends and family and created a life they couldn't possibly be responsible for and now this shambling husk of too soon and not enough has to pretend to have purpose or they're 'broken'.

Surely we can blame the parents for being born in this case? Or any scenario where the conceiving of a child had little to do with actually considering the responsibility or purpose in raising a child to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine etc etc.

Let's say you could blame parents for being born, what does this actually do and how does it help anyone?

Well, if any of the circumstances you glossed over to make this rhetorical question that I'm going to answer anyway were true, it would be at the very least a way of tracking the source of your unhappiness, that you aren't necessarily broken but have been broken. Identifying the root of your problem then allows you to address it directly. Whether that's to come to terms with your own survival instinct and your unwillingness to paticipate in or accept the responsibilities that were hoisted on you for existing or to try and find a way to unravel that unhappiness is up to you. But starting where shit went wrong, which as pointed out could have happened before your conception, is the first step in dealing with it in your manner of choosing.

There's literally nothing that can be done about being born

I'd argue that there is literally everything that can be done about being born. You could live your life simply marking time and filling space, you could use the life you have to improve the lives of others, you could end it. In fact, without life there is nothing you can do or even a you, being born opens up a whole raft of possibilities. You could not be more wrong about this.

, getting angry about it is just being angry about something completely outside of your control and cannot be undone.

It quite clearly can be undone. Either by you yourself, or others, or cholesterol.

That's not a route to a healthier mindset.

Finding out where things went south for you is the entire cornerstone of the therapy industry. Perhaps internalizing your own lack of self worth thinking there must be wrong with you inherently and not via an identifiable and addressable circumstance is the unhealthy mindset.

[Esternial]

Your parents fucked, you were born. They didn't specify create you so your life sucks. You may as well hate the sun for shinning, or rain for being wet. Both are unnatural and are best treated by a medical. Your shitty life is on you. Your responsibility to do something about it, not your parents, not the state, you.

What if they fucked to produce a child in a feeble attempt to save their deteriating relationship? And now this drooling crawling bad idea has to go through life with the most formative early years being taken care of by people who really should have gone their separate ways? They didn't create life out of an impulse to create a new generation to carry whatever on, they did a thing they assumed they had to in the hope that it would make everything okay. And eventually this bad idea who you now have to feed and buy clothes for will eventually become hip to the fact that they were born in a failed attempt to save a relationship that shouldn't have been saved so that before you even said a word or pooped in a toilet by yourself, you were a disappointment? And now you have to fucking stumble through life, a failed experiment and find some kind of meaning or purpose in it because if we don't we're 'broken'.

Can we blame the parents then?

Or if they were very young and wanted a baby in the same way they wanted a dolly or a pet without any consideration that they will be responsible for that little thing for 18 years and it will only be a baby for like a third of it if you stretch. They didn't have the means or a plan beyond a cute thing they could show off to friends and family and created a life they couldn't possibly be responsible for and now this shambling husk of too soon and not enough has to pretend to have purpose or they're 'broken'.

Surely we can blame the parents for being born in this case? Or any scenario where the conceiving of a child had little to do with actually considering the responsibility or purpose in raising a child to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine etc etc.

I'm not sure if this sounds more like blaming your parents "for being shit parents" rather than blaming them for putting you on this world.

It all seems like a very specific detail to zone in on. One exception may be when there are genetic diseases involved.

[Forsher]

Let's suppose we have John, whose life was misery and woe, and Joan, whose life was also misery and woe.

Suppose that John's parents birthed him for the explicit purpose of eating popcorn while he struggled through life, whereas Joan's parents had high hopes and worried themselves into early graves.

John's parents are problematic. Joan's are not.

Intention... matters.

It doesn't. We all think intention matters until something happens to us that causes us to suffer, and then we realize it doesn't.

If I'm hit by a car that breaks 100 of my bones, I don't give the slightest shit whether I was hit by a drunk driver or an ISIS terrorist or someone rushing to the hospital because they were having a deadly allergic reaction. I'm in the same hospital bed in the same pain.

That explains whether you should lament life, not how you should feel about the cause of it.

Would you feel exactly the same way about the driver in each of those circumstances? Probably not.

[Cannot think of a name]

What if they fucked to produce a child in a feeble attempt to save their deteriating relationship? And now this drooling crawling bad idea has to go through life with the most formative early years being taken care of by people who really should have gone their separate ways? They didn't create life out of an impulse to create a new generation to carry whatever on, they did a thing they assumed they had to in the hope that it would make everything okay. And eventually this bad idea who you now have to feed and buy clothes for will eventually become hip to the fact that they were born in a failed attempt to save a relationship that shouldn't have been saved so that before you even said a word or pooped in a toilet by yourself, you were a disappointment? And now you have to fucking stumble through life, a failed experiment and find some kind of meaning or purpose in it because if we don't we're 'broken'.

Can we blame the parents then?

Or if they were very young and wanted a baby in the same way they wanted a dolly or a pet without any consideration that they will be responsible for that little thing for 18 years and it will only be a baby for like a third of it if you stretch. They didn't have the means or a plan beyond a cute thing they could show off to friends and family and created a life they couldn't possibly be responsible for and now this shambling husk of too soon and not enough has to pretend to have purpose or they're 'broken'.

Surely we can blame the parents for being born in this case? Or any scenario where the conceiving of a child had little to do with actually considering the responsibility or purpose in raising a child to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine so they can create a life to feed to the machine etc etc.

I'm not sure if this sounds more like blaming your parents "for being shit parents" rather than blaming them for putting you on this world.

Well, in each instance their opening move as shit parents was to bring a new life into this world for shit reasons that are inevitably going to undermine the child's chances of happiness and therefore enthusiasm about having to maintain a life that was ill conceived.

It all seems like a very specific detail to zone in on. One exception may be when there are genetic diseases involved.

That's what examples are...

[Esternial]

I'm not sure if this sounds more like blaming your parents "for being shit parents" rather than blaming them for putting you on this world.

Well, in each instance their opening move as shit parents was to bring a new life into this world for shit reasons that are inevitably going to undermine the child's chances of happiness and therefore enthusiasm about having to maintain a life that was ill conceived.

Isn't that a strange thing to focus on, though?

Of all the things one can blame their parents for, focusing on the fact that "they them get born" implies they themselves are the problem. It implies that no amount of good parenting, nurturing society, etc. would have fixed the absolute trainwreck of a human being they inherently are. If it did, it would be more logical to resent one's parent for being shit parents.

Because of all thing being focused on, the act of "being born" is so worth focusing on.

It sounds to me more of a self-esteem issue with the person uttering the resentment.

[Uiiop]

Even if anti-natalism is correct parents are only acting under the same pressures you are going through and lashing out at them will only add to the hell that is life to both of you.

Therefore fuck no. Hate systems or bust.

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, in each instance their opening move as shit parents was to bring a new life into this world for shit reasons that are inevitably going to undermine the child's chances of happiness and therefore enthusiasm about having to maintain a life that was ill conceived.

Isn't that a strange thing to focus on, though?

Of all the things one can blame their parents for, focusing on the fact that "they them get born" implies they themselves are the problem. It implies that no amount of good parenting, nurturing society, etc. would have fixed the absolute trainwreck of a human being they inherently are. If it did, it would be more logical to resent one's parent for being shit parents.

Because of all thing being focused on, the act of "being born" is so worth focusing on.

It sounds to me more of a self-esteem issue with the person uttering the resentment.

How are we defining "focusing on"? Essentially we're just answering the question posed by the thread. To imply that this is the 'focus' of anyone's critique or examination is kinda on you. No one said that was the focal point of their delving into the origin of their issues or trying to reconcile a lack of enthusiasm towards the idea of being born. You're elevating an argument to your own importance to ridicule it and then try and analyze me (not appreciated). I'm just addressing the premise, I'm not giving you a priority list of things people can evaluate in their lives.

[Prima Scriptura]

During my darkest days of depression, I firmly believe that I should’ve been aborted. Now I’m thankful to be alive, I contribute this change based on getting on the right meds and a dramatic change in religious worldview.

[Vass Zima]

First, I think it's up to the person questioning their own morals to decide whether something is moral to them or not. However, I personally don't dislike my parents for creating me. First of all, it was an accident. Accidents happen. I was born, and here I am. I dislike my mother for a multitude of other reasons other than me being born. I dislike things my father does, but not because he created me (if I ever say he created me, just roll with it. My mother was a deadbeat for 18 years. As far as I'm concerned, I'm only my father's child). I was born with a multitude of mental illnesses, and that's not their fault.

It's not their fault I was born the way I am, and I do often question whether it's right to bring children into a world like this. Is it right? Who knows. I don't plan to have kids for many years to come. If my kids have my symptoms, they're going to the doctor. I want my kids to have the most enjoyable life they can, and when I do have them, I'd be very happy if they didn't resent me for having them. I can't control what mental illnesses they inherit from me of their other father (I'm a trans-demiboy afab).

I don't want my kids to dislike me because I had them. However, some part of me resents being here in general. Mostly because I'm mentally ill (medicated in therapy). I don't hate either of my parents for having me. I'm glad I'm here for my 'adopted' kids and my dad and family. I may be glad I'm here, but that doesn't mean I necessarily like it a lot.

I'm not religious, as a front. I'm spiritualist. I don't believe some benevolent god put us here to teach us. I don't believe some malevolent god put us here to suffer. All I know is that I'm here, and the spirits I believe in want me to get where I'm going in life. Depression and mental illness is something I have to overcome. I may feel like garbage at times, and the bad days can be debilitating. However, I'm willing to try to do better than my mother and anyone who's doubted me. Just keep in mind that life isn't all bad.

Even if you can't find any big things, look for the little things to be happy about! Like pizza! I fucking love pizza! I could be having the worst possible day imaginable, and if I get pizza, it's the best fucking hour of my life. Keep in mind that life is all about ups and downs. Your parents (unless they're human refuse) are trying their best to help you. They should love you unconditionally, and will do anything for you. Life may suck, but the very least we can do is try.

Sorry if this went all over the place haven't posted in a blog-like setting before like this