Is it morally correct to dislike ones parents for creation?

[Torisakia]

Yes. For instance, I wish I was never born. And everything I believe in is always morally correct.

[Doomsborough]

1)"|+|=||"
-I believe the above to be correct, 2 parents combine to form a group of 2 people
₂₎ "|+|=|||"
-No this is wrong, 2 parents cannot combine to form a group of 3 people
³⁾ "|+|=||||"
-We are getting somewhere because now I have a sibling thanks to my parents

Code: Select all

This pattern begins to fall apart as we continue to reuse Roman numerals outside of musical chord progressions

The flaw in this math is that when:_
"|+|=||||"
It means the alien portions of "||||" that were originally neither "|" nor "|" seem to be anachronistically oligarchical
tyrannosaurs comapred to the "|" and "|" that had tenure within the equation as shown^, _{in equation}³⁾

[The New Milky Way]

Partly. To give birth is human nature, after all, and it would be strange if morality, being a social regulator, would go against human nature itself.

In my opinion, parents should be blamed if, when giving birth, they doomed the child to... receiving an amount of suffering above the social norm / sure inability to live a good human life/etc.

For example, my parents are not bad, and therefore they should not be blamed for the fact that they gave birth to me.
However, I am a poor prospective parent, and therefore I guess that I could be blamed for having children.

[Equai]

Yes, but also no. I look at this in a light of what type of parents you have.
It ones parents are kind, loving, supportive, open minded and truly care about their child but their child so happen to suffer physically or mentally then no... I wouldn't consider it right. They didn't knew what problems you would have so it is not right to blame them, especially if they truly wanted a child, planned to have a child and got a child at their own accord when they were ready. I am speaking from a woman who do suffer from depression, partially connected to my gender dysphoria and who used to really dislike my parents from making me

On the other side of a coin, there is parents who sees their child as a slave, someone that needs to whey their every word, parents who are awful people, hurt, humiliate and physically torture their children... Then yes you have full right and reason to hate them for giving birth to you because they purposely have birth to you in order to exploit it and see you as their toy. Those people cannot be seen as parents, or humans for that matter. Those type of people are just monsters and children who got created by their those type of parents deserve much better.

Everyone who says that you should never have your parents doesn't speak right because parents aren't something untouchable beings. If they don't respect you or love you then you don't have a duty to love or respect theme either.

Edit: I am not going to gatekeep parenting and I don't care about economic situation of people. When talking about pepper giving birth we should not think about their social status, economic status or anything... But about do they want kids or not.

[Dtn]

No. It's a way to deflect responsibility for one's own happiness and continue to wallow in misery because its the path of least resistance.

Unless they're absolutely awful your parents care about you. The internet and anime girls don't, sorry.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

The fatal flaw of the utilitarian antinatalist argument is that when you do not exist, you cannot feel happy due to lack of suffering because you do not exist and thus lack emotion. David Benatar, promoter of said utilitarian argument claims that absence of pain is good regardless of whether someone exists to experience it, but that is not true of absence of pleasure. The reasoning is that it is "less strange" to cite potential harm to a child as a reason not to have a child than the reverse. However, this makes no sense. Just because people do not usually cite pleasure to a child as a reason to have a child does not mean that it is a less valid argument than the inverse. There are also many other arguments against Benatar's argument.

Since non-existence is at best neutral, it is ultimately a dice roll as to whether a life will be worth living or not.

[Hispida]

eh. who cares? i didn't exist then, i exist now, i will continue to exist. sounds like a pretty sweet dig for me.

[Space Squid]

"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV."

[Asardia]

Procreation is morally wrong and I will stand by that statement. Solomon says it the best:

Ecclesiastes 4:2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive
Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun

I truly believe it is better to have never been born than to exist in this world.

[Existential Cats]

Procreation is morally wrong and I will stand by that statement. Solomon says it the best:

Ecclesiastes 4:2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive
Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun

I truly believe it is better to have never been born than to exist in this world.

This is a better argument against the Bible than it is against procreation.

[Asardia]

Procreation is morally wrong and I will stand by that statement. Solomon says it the best:

Ecclesiastes 4:2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive
Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun

I truly believe it is better to have never been born than to exist in this world.

This is a better argument against the Bible than it is against procreation.

How so?

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

As for the title, while I believe it to be logically incorrect, it is not morally incorrect. You have no moral obligation to like your parents.

I want to add that the value of your life is not static. There are things you can do to improve your emotional state.

[Katganistan]

If someone wishes they had not been born, they probably should seek professional help.

[Existential Cats]

This is a better argument against the Bible than it is against procreation.

How so?

It highlights the Bible's misanthropy and contempt for the body and everything physical. Hardly a text I would base my morality on.

Either way, a counter-argument: I'm alive, I'm existing, and I'm quite happy about this.

[Ethel mermania]

Procreation is morally wrong and I will stand by that statement. Solomon says it the best:

Ecclesiastes 4:2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive
Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun

I truly believe it is better to have never been born than to exist in this world.

This is a woeful misinterpretation of the book. The author in your quotes about evil oppressors of the good, and they both come to the same end.

Here are the spark notes

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section12/

[Free Kathen]

How so?

It highlights the Bible's misanthropy and contempt for the body and everything physical. Hardly a text I would base my morality on.

Either way, a counter-argument: I'm alive, I'm existing, and I'm quite happy about this.

The text you're quoting is specifically Solomon (although maybe not) while in the throes of nihilism. The point of Ecclesiastes, at least from the writer's perspective, is what life is without God. Which is to say, life sucks and then you die. The fact that it concludes with the idea that God gives life meaning, and that the rest of the Bible genuinely contradicts nihilism-afflicted Solomon, speak to the fact that it is far from the point of the book.

In any case, I don't think it is morally correct to dislike your parents for creating you. It's all right to dislike your parents for any number of other reasons, including what they did after bringing you into this world. Unless they were genuinely unprepared and unfit to raise a child, though, I don't think them procreating is bad in any way. After all, even if your life is meaningless, and even if there are lows, aren't there also highs and genuine pleasures in it?

[Cannot think of a name]

Yes. Nobody consents to being born. Its a decision made for us.

And you just have to lumber on with it pointless day after pointless day just trying to drag your useless existence to some unknown finish line or you're the asshole.

[Valentine Z]

I quite like this life, it has certainly been an experience, and with a lot more to come.

And I was born to love cats (dogs and other animals are okay too, but especially cats), so that's a bonus.

[Ethel mermania]

I quite like this life, it has certainly been an experience, and with a lot more to come.

And I was born to love cats (dogs and other animals are okay too, but especially cats), so that's a bonus.

Huzzah!

[Technoscience Leftwing]

I think that if potential parents do not think about the consequences of their actions, this in no way reduces their responsibility and guilt for the suffering of their descendants. For example, if a driver on the road does not think about the consequences of actions, this in no way justifies his mistakes that led to accidents.

Further, in this discussion, there was talk about the failure or depression of individuals - but it's about something completely different, about the crisis of the social system. When a social system tends from prosperity to crisis and decline, there are more "unfortunate and depressed" people in it, but in fact - more victims of the system (poor, homeless, unemployed, victims of wars, etc.), and fewer comfortable places in system, a bright perspective disappears. Parents who lived in a period of prosperity and well-being, may be under the illusion that today's prosperity will continue into the future, or even the situation will improve - but in fact the system will decline. In this case, they chose to have a child on the false assumption of linear progress. But their descendants, born during the crisis, do not have such illusions - and they can refuse to bear children, not repeat the mistake of their parents.

[Adamede]

I prefer to (at least try) to base people off of their actions, not my own perception of the quality of my life. i dodnt ask to be born, and yah theres time I wish Inever was at all. There's also times that I wish I had been able to have the chance to have a normal childhood and actually have relationships, be it with friends or SO's or even my extended family. And I culd hate my parents for birthing me into this life thatb hans't been entirely great for me.

Or I could realize that my parents never asked for any of that shit to happen to me, or to them as they were there every step of the way too and life wasnt kid to them either. And despite it all they always showed me love, ensured that I was fed and safe and loved and that if not happy all the time I did have joyous moments in my life.

Even if you're an anti-natalisgt, unless your parents were abusive pieces of shit who abused you, or at least neglected you, I don't see how hating them for birthing you is moral postion to take.

But then again from my experince antinatalists rarely come from good environments.

[Asardia]

Procreation is morally wrong and I will stand by that statement. Solomon says it the best:

Ecclesiastes 4:2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive
Ecclesiastes 4:3 But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun

I truly believe it is better to have never been born than to exist in this world.

This is a woeful misinterpretation of the book. The author in your quotes about evil oppressors of the good, and they both come to the same end.

Here are the spark notes

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section12/

All I see is a long version of Solomon saying "life sucks, but make the best of it so that you can be with God for eternity"

[Asardia]

If someone wishes they had not been born, they probably should seek professional help.

I disagree. We shouldn't simply categorize anyone who doesn't enjoy life as mentally ill.

[Luziyca]

While it is true that we don't have much choice in being born, and while it is true that fertility is hereditary (i.e. if your parents didn't have any children, you'd probably not have any either), I'm not really sure if it is morally correct to dislike your own parents for creating you in se, since they did not know what the life since you were born would turn out. Their actions, on the other hand, are a whole different bucket of fish: if your parents were abusive or neglectful, then yeah, it would be morally correct to dislike the parents for creating you in the first place.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

In any case, I don't think it is morally correct to dislike your parents for creating you. It's all right to dislike your parents for any number of other reasons, including what they did after bringing you into this world. Unless they were genuinely unprepared and unfit to raise a child, though, I don't think them procreating is bad in any way. After all, even if your life is meaningless, and even if there are lows, aren't there also highs and genuine pleasures in it?

I would counter-argue that by referring to good old David Benatar’s asymmetry between pain and pleasure argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Benatar#Asymmetry_between_pain_and_pleasure