The New Legacy: What will people think of Russia soon?

[Pangurstan]

America, Russia, and China are all right-wing authoritarian regimes respectively increasing in order of tyranny.

i wish joe biden was an authoritarian dictator

[Pangurstan]

Western perceptions of Russia and Russians as a land and people of violence, misery, and tyranny have been the norm since the Russian Empire and there is no reason to believe this will change.

The West sees Russia as a beacon of barbarism because we want to; because it makes it easier to justify our own imperialism by drumming up the big bad eastern horde threatening to destroy us all or whatever other apocalyptic, fearmongering nonsense neoliberal warhawks are spouting these days.

THIS! Yes, Russia is not perfect and it's geological position didn't gave them good start. Yes, it's true that Putin is not a good person and has introduced very disgusting laws (bit so did Poland and USA who literally has fascist concentration camps for immigrants) but it's stupid painting Russia as the biggest devil while justifying western imperialism that, in most cases, is even worse then the Russian one. Tho, imperialism is imperialism and no matter from which side should never be encouraged or supported.
What Russian leadership did is not acceptable and it's the act of imperialism but it's hypocritical saying that and not acknowledging that western nations did and still do very same things.

That being said, however, west will never learn to separate leaders from the common people and will gladly support the economic genocide aka the sanctions that doesn't even affect the elite but makes life of the already poor population even poorer which in turn only makes them more disgusted by the west. It's even worse to see some people thinking that Russian legacy will be worse then that of a Nazi Germany which is disgusting and only shows that western conservatives and neo-liberals will gladly mingle with Nazi regime then have a one good word to say about Russia or common working people of Russia.

The poorest russians rely on their billion-dollar yachts and ownership of expensive foreign real estate to make a living

[Free Algerstonia]

America, Russia, and China are all right-wing authoritarian regimes respectively increasing in order of tyranny.

i wish joe biden was an authoritarian dictator

did you see him locking good american conservatives inside their homes and forcing them to wear evil devices that cover up your mouth in a failed attempt to stop them from eating

[Vavlar]

Note: Reminder to keep things civil, some of the posts seem a little flamy. (Not a mod). Also it would be best to provide sources to help your position but also check the validity of your sources and their reputation.

(For example, the time Russia violated Irish national waters for a naval exercise)

No they didn't.

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... l%20waters.

i wish joe biden was an authoritarian dictator

did you see him locking good american conservatives inside their homes and forcing them to wear evil devices that cover up your mouth in a failed attempt to stop them from eating

News source provided please? (one from a neutral, republican leaning, and left leaning to see the difference in details, please.)

Russia is one of the few countries left that can effectively counterbalance the forces of American imperialism.

Definition by Mariam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imperialism

Putin's Russia will be a footnote in history and will only be remembered as the source of inspiration for the world-spanning realm of God-Emperor Biden.

Biden is by no mean a god. He is in a frail body, just like the majority of older senators. Soon they will be replaced either in elections or once they die because no one can serve a position once they die correctly, correct?

I am amused at seeing people say that Russia can effectively counter US and it’s allies in Europe. Russia is effectively Saddam Hussein's Iraq but actually having WMDs. A Western invasion of Russia will go like the invasion of Iraq.
Overall I don't think the European perception of an extremely aggressive Russia will change any time soon. In most of Asia and Africa though Russia isn't seen as an enemy but much more like a friend especially in India and China which probably won't change in the near future.

Russia has the Urals to it's slightly left center, the Lower Caucasus Mountains, and mountainous terrain on it's Far eastern coast.
Geographic map:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Russia_rel_location_map.png/576px-Russia_rel_location_map.png

Weather map:

https://i.redd.it/qwm4il2p4uxz.gif

Western perceptions of Russia and Russians as a land and people of violence, misery, and tyranny have been the norm since the Russian Empire and there is no reason to believe this will change.

The West sees Russia as a beacon of barbarism because we want to; because it makes it easier to justify our own imperialism by drumming up the big bad eastern horde threatening to destroy us all or whatever other apocalyptic, fearmongering nonsense neoliberal warhawks are spouting these days.

Not a land of misery and tyranny. Definitely not the best in the times of the Russian Empire but under the last few *cough cough*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_II_of_Russia *cough cough* and Tsar Nicholas II, but under Nicholas II's rule, Russia was screwed up in WW1 thanks to his meddling in the positions of troops, however had the Russo-Japanese war of 1905 not happened, it would have made the Russians more prideful, and this defeat including Bloody Sunday in which a group of unarmed peaceful marchers were shot down like they were rioting. Even though the peasants were having a hard time, Tsar Nicholas II was the first Tsar since Alexander II to have modernized Russia more but it is important not to forget Catherine and Peter the Great who modernized the military for their time period. Tsar Nicholas II even had ministers for economic growth and other matters. But, WW1's bloodshed and horridness including undesired effects on the economy and food production lead to the abdication of the Tsar, and eventually the toppling of the Russian republic to the Bolsheviks.

[Sungoldy-China]

How people in the Western world perceive Russia is different from the Eastern world.
Europe and Africa even more differently.
Even in China, people of different factions see Russia differently

[Adamede]

Western perceptions of Russia and Russians as a land and people of violence, misery, and tyranny have been the norm since the Russian Empire and there is no reason to believe this will change.

The West sees Russia as a beacon of barbarism because we want to; because it makes it easier to justify our own imperialism by drumming up the big bad eastern horde threatening to destroy us all or whatever other apocalyptic, fearmongering nonsense neoliberal warhawks are spouting these days.

THIS! Yes, Russia is not perfect and it's geological position didn't gave them good start. Yes, it's true that Putin is not a good person and has introduced very disgusting laws (bit so did Poland and USA who literally has fascist concentration camps for immigrants) but it's stupid painting Russia as the biggest devil while justifying western imperialism that, in most cases, is even worse then the Russian one. Tho, imperialism is imperialism and no matter from which side should never be encouraged or supported.
What Russian leadership did is not acceptable and it's the act of imperialism but it's hypocritical saying that and not acknowledging that western nations did and still do very same things.

That being said, however, west will never learn to separate leaders from the common people and will gladly support the economic genocide aka the sanctions that doesn't even affect the elite but makes life of the already poor population even poorer which in turn only makes them more disgusted by the west. It's even worse to see some people thinking that Russian legacy will be worse then that of a Nazi Germany which is disgusting and only shows that western conservatives and neo-liberals will gladly mingle with Nazi regime then have a one good word to say about Russia or common working people of Russia.

And what specific case of western imperialism is that?

[Pangurstan]

THIS! Yes, Russia is not perfect and it's geological position didn't gave them good start. Yes, it's true that Putin is not a good person and has introduced very disgusting laws (bit so did Poland and USA who literally has fascist concentration camps for immigrants) but it's stupid painting Russia as the biggest devil while justifying western imperialism that, in most cases, is even worse then the Russian one. Tho, imperialism is imperialism and no matter from which side should never be encouraged or supported.
What Russian leadership did is not acceptable and it's the act of imperialism but it's hypocritical saying that and not acknowledging that western nations did and still do very same things.

That being said, however, west will never learn to separate leaders from the common people and will gladly support the economic genocide aka the sanctions that doesn't even affect the elite but makes life of the already poor population even poorer which in turn only makes them more disgusted by the west. It's even worse to see some people thinking that Russian legacy will be worse then that of a Nazi Germany which is disgusting and only shows that western conservatives and neo-liberals will gladly mingle with Nazi regime then have a one good word to say about Russia or common working people of Russia.

And what specific case of western imperialism is that?

America not letting Russia invade Ukraine

[Sordhau]

And what specific case of western imperialism is that?

America not letting Russia invade Ukraine

Gotta love it when Orientalists conveniently forget the 200 years of American Imperialism specifically, and the 600 years of Western Imperialism in general - both of which are still claiming lives and destroying nations to this very day - whenever singling out eastern countries for having a "history" of violence, war, tyranny, genocide, etc.

[Thermodolia]

Russia is one of the few countries left that can effectively counterbalance the forces of American imperialism.

Lol what. Chairman Winnie the Xi wouldn’t be happy with you for this statement

[Adamede]

America not letting Russia invade Ukraine

Gotta love it when Orientalists conveniently forget the 200 years of American Imperialism specifically, and the 600 years of Western Imperialism in general - both of which are still claiming lives and destroying nations to this very day - whenever singling out eastern countries for having a "history" of violence, war, tyranny, genocide, etc.

Yah that sucks. Don't see what that has to do with the comments here though.

[Port Caverton]

I have never supported Russian imperialism, and have in fact condemned it multiple times.

But by all means keep making a fool of yourself.

You really don't get it, do you? Nations do not just apply to join NATO and suddenly, BAM, they're in just like that. There's a process; members vote on whether to accept them, and the vote has to be unanimous. The key point here is that no NATO member is under any obligation to say 'yes' - NATO doesn't have to accept new members. The key bit of context here that is often excluded by the pro-NATO crowd in this argument is that NATO leaders (literally every head of state of a NATO member, every single one) assured Gorbachev and his administration that NATO would not accept new memberships from former Warsaw Pact members and ex-Soviet Republics. The USSR hadn't even formerly dissolved yet before NATO broke this promise by telling the Visegrad Group they could join if they became capitalist liberal democracies in November of 1991, one whole month before the USSR dissolved. The U.S. itself weighed the issue of enlargement of NATO and by 1992 decided that expanding "Euro-American Hegemony" was more important than upholding the promise NATO made to Moscow not to expand into Eastern Europe in 1990. The Clinton Administration even made it a vital part of their foreign policy in 1996. Frankly I'm disappointed that the Russians showed as much restraint in response to such a blatant betrayal even after trying to improve relations with the West and America in particular. Because quite honestly they had every right to raise Hell over it.

You are a Russian shill. End of story.

[Sordhau]

I have never supported Russian imperialism, and have in fact condemned it multiple times.

But by all means keep making a fool of yourself.

You really don't get it, do you? Nations do not just apply to join NATO and suddenly, BAM, they're in just like that. There's a process; members vote on whether to accept them, and the vote has to be unanimous. The key point here is that no NATO member is under any obligation to say 'yes' - NATO doesn't have to accept new members. The key bit of context here that is often excluded by the pro-NATO crowd in this argument is that NATO leaders (literally every head of state of a NATO member, every single one) assured Gorbachev and his administration that NATO would not accept new memberships from former Warsaw Pact members and ex-Soviet Republics. The USSR hadn't even formerly dissolved yet before NATO broke this promise by telling the Visegrad Group they could join if they became capitalist liberal democracies in November of 1991, one whole month before the USSR dissolved. The U.S. itself weighed the issue of enlargement of NATO and by 1992 decided that expanding "Euro-American Hegemony" was more important than upholding the promise NATO made to Moscow not to expand into Eastern Europe in 1990. The Clinton Administration even made it a vital part of their foreign policy in 1996. Frankly I'm disappointed that the Russians showed as much restraint in response to such a blatant betrayal even after trying to improve relations with the West and America in particular. Because quite honestly they had every right to raise Hell over it.

You are a Russian shill. End of story.

Very embarrassing that you're broadcasting your own illiteracy for all of NSG to see.

[Port Caverton]

You are a Russian shill. End of story.

Very embarrassing that you're broadcasting your own illiteracy for all of NSG to see.

You said that Russia raising tensions over something that is not even official is fine.

[Sordhau]

Very embarrassing that you're broadcasting your own illiteracy for all of NSG to see.

You said that Russia raising tensions over something that is not even official is fine.

Unofficial promises are still promises. Lying has consequences; I learned this the hard way a long time ago.

[Port Caverton]

You said that Russia raising tensions over something that is not even official is fine.

Unofficial promises are still promises. Lying has consequences; I learned this the hard way a long time ago.

Wow! What a revelation! Truly enlightening!

Plus the only ones taking Ls from this lie is not even the people to whom the promise was made

[Thermodolia]

You said that Russia raising tensions over something that is not even official is fine.

Unofficial promises are still promises. Lying has consequences; I learned this the hard way a long time ago.

No they aren’t. It wasn’t even about Eastern Europe but east Germany. Furthermore it was made with a leader of a nation that doesn’t exist.

If you make an agreement with a company and it goes bust all your agreements go out the window. Same thing here.

However in your hate of the west you’ve bought Russian propaganda hook line and sinker

[The Lone Alliance]

Unofficial promises are still promises. Lying has consequences; I learned this the hard way a long time ago.

Wow! What a revelation! Truly enlightening!

Plus the only ones taking Ls from this lie is not even the people to whom the promise was made

Except it wasn't even a promise because none of the people involved in said promise could actually make such a promise, in order for it to be a promise means that you have to buy into the false mindset that NATO only does what the US tells it to do, which as Turkey has repeatedly shown, it doesn't.

[Heloin]

Russia has basically had the same popular image in the west for the last 300 years. The cold dark land in eastern Europe stretching far into Asia with all powerful leaders, armies that rely on their size, and in it’s strangeness may sometimes be an ally sometimes the enemy. Strip away the minutiae and nuance of reality what has Russia’s war in Ukraine really changed in that pop culture perception?

[Equai]

THIS! Yes, Russia is not perfect and it's geological position didn't gave them good start. Yes, it's true that Putin is not a good person and has introduced very disgusting laws (bit so did Poland and USA who literally has fascist concentration camps for immigrants) but it's stupid painting Russia as the biggest devil while justifying western imperialism that, in most cases, is even worse then the Russian one. Tho, imperialism is imperialism and no matter from which side should never be encouraged or supported.
What Russian leadership did is not acceptable and it's the act of imperialism but it's hypocritical saying that and not acknowledging that western nations did and still do very same things.

That being said, however, west will never learn to separate leaders from the common people and will gladly support the economic genocide aka the sanctions that doesn't even affect the elite but makes life of the already poor population even poorer which in turn only makes them more disgusted by the west. It's even worse to see some people thinking that Russian legacy will be worse then that of a Nazi Germany which is disgusting and only shows that western conservatives and neo-liberals will gladly mingle with Nazi regime then have a one good word to say about Russia or common working people of Russia.

And what specific case of western imperialism is that?

The age of colonization is literally the biggest example western imperialism. US of A Empire as well and it's violent projection of power on the developing world that the USA and "ex" colonial powers exploited to hell and back. If you want to concentrate on 20th century alone.... USA has over 60 wars under it's belt for that century alone. Like toppling Democratically elected socialist leaders across latín América and installing borderline to hardcore fascist dictators, dropping depleted uranium bombs across innocent civilians in the country who never attacked any NATO member. British and French colonialism is another example of hardcore western imperialism. Hell, France even did a state-sponsored terrorism in Algeria to keep it under it's command.

Tho back on the topic of this thread. What Russia is doing right now is also an act of imperialism, a disgusting one too and I do not support it. I do not support Russian leadership either. They are nothing but a right-wing populists but I don't support Ukrainian leadership either. Not after they incorporated a well documented neo-nazi Azov battalion under the command of the the Ukrainian army. I only opressed people and their cause for the liberation of the bourgeoisie. For westerners who only think in black and white Russia will always be a boogieman just to keep our flawed imperialist regimes unshaken. I do not deny or downplay the imperialistic tendencies of Russian leadership for Ukraine or the atrocities they commit, massacres and genocides. I do not approve or support that war but I am also not going to just accept that Ukrainian army is the innocent angel or to frown upon dictatorial regime of Russia while praising the very same regime under a different name in the USA.

[Adamede]

You said that Russia raising tensions over something that is not even official is fine.

Unofficial promises are still promises. Lying has consequences; I learned this the hard way a long time ago.

Guess Germany was merely dealing out the consquences of Versaille to the rest of Europe huh?

[Adamede]

And what specific case of western imperialism is that?

The age of colonization is literally the biggest example western imperialism.

Not what I'm asking. Also you do know why its called the Russian Empire, right?
US of A Empire as well and it's violent projection of power on the developing world that the USA and "ex" colonial powers exploited to hell and back. If you want to concentrate on 20th century alone.... USA has over 60 wars under it's belt for that century alone. Like toppling Democratically elected socialist leaders across latín América and installing borderline to hardcore fascist dictators, dropping depleted uranium bombs across innocent civilians in the country who never attacked any NATO member. British and French colonialism is another example of hardcore western imperialism. Hell, France even did a state-sponsored terrorism in Algeria to keep it under it's command.[/quoe]
As oppsoed to the Soviets?

And again that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking what Western imperialism is being justified by the Russian invasion, because Sordhau is under the impression that Eatsern Europe joining NATO of their own free will is imperialism.

Tho back on the topic of this thread. What Russia is doing right now is also an act of imperialism, a disgusting one too and I do not support it. I do not support Russian leadership either. They are nothing but a right-wing populists but I don't support Ukrainian leadership either. Not after they incorporated a well documented neo-nazi Azov battalion under the command of the the Ukrainian army. I only opressed people and their cause for the liberation of the bourgeoisie. For westerners who only think in black and white Russia will always be a boogieman just to keep our flawed imperialist regimes unshaken. I do not deny or downplay the imperialistic tendencies of Russian leadership for Ukraine or the atrocities they commit, massacres and genocides. I do not approve or support that war but I am also not going to just accept that Ukrainian army is the innocent angel or to frown upon dictatorial regime of Russia while praising the very same regime under a different name in the USA.

Thats literally the dumbest thing I've read on the subject. On the one hand we have the Ukrainains, who had to incoprate a small neo-nazi miliia into the Nattional Guard due to lack of soldiers and not wanting random armed groups in the country, the process of which essentially destroyed the neo-Nazi aspect of the unit, and then on the other we have the Russians and their various underlings who are currently in the process of looting, raping (including of chidlren), and murdering their way across Ukraine you're here on the sidelines saying "I hate both sides but support the poor!" and "muh western imerperilsims!" while theyre being murdered in the thousands at least.

Your support for the proles is worthless as the only thing standing between the comeptlely sacking of Ukraine by the Russians is the Ukrainian military and armed forces in all of its forms, which yes unforturnately includes Azov because Ukraine had to make a deal with the devil.

[Gravlen]

Note: Reminder to keep things civil, some of the posts seem a little flamy. (Not a mod). Also it would be best to provide sources to help your position but also check the validity of your sources and their reputation.

Good advice about sources.

Let's see how that works out...

No they didn't.

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... l%20waters.

Russian naval exercises are expected to begin in early February near Ireland’s EEZ, roughly 150 miles off of the country’s southwest coast, according to the Department of Foreign Affairs. While the area in question is part of Ireland’s EEZ, it is not part of its territorial waters.

Despite the concerns, Coveney acknowledged that states are entitled to carry out naval exercises in other states’ EEZs under international law and said Ireland had been notified of the exercises through standard procedures.

Nothing about Russia violating Irish national waters. Quite the opposite.

It's nice of you to provide a source to debunk your own claim.

[Shofercia]

Following the Ukraine war, which started with Russian attention, I have had a question in the back of my mind for a while. This of course, is somewhat important for future geopolitics such as future US politicians or politicians from countries creating stereotypes against Russia or Russians for political gain or securing national interests? And especially with increasing rhetoric against Russia and Russians, calling them aggressors and fascists and especially a fascist dictatorship. This is only winning the popularity war which does not help anything but rally support for sending supplies and aid. Moving onto the main point of this thread based off of several questions I have had:
For how long will Russia be thought of as communist?
In the future will Russia be thought of as Fascist, Communist, or nationalistic communist?
Is Russia doomed to forever economic damnation to keep it weak?
Now that Russia has been sanctioned and the EU pledging to no longer use Russian oil which is a large source of energy from the EU, will there be a faster conversion to "clean energy" sources?
Is Russia causing a larger cause for unification of the European Continent?
(For example, the time Russia violated Irish national waters for a naval exercise)

What is soon? A week? Two weeks? A month? A year? Soon in geopolitical terms needs to be defined. Russia is neither communist nor fascist, and those who define Russia as such don't understand what the terms actually mean. Russia's economy is being surprisingly resilient, and Europe as a customer can be replaced with customers in Asia, a region that's developing and needing raw resources. Russia didn't violate Irish waters, either.

[Big Bad Blue]

No one with half a brain thinks of Russia as communist. It is a totalitarian state ruled by a narcissistic psychopath and his equally culpable cronies and minions. In a single stroke Putin has undone decades of progress, but he and his kleptocracy don't care as long as they retain their mansions, planes and yachts and near-complete control over the nation's rapidly shrinking economy. Slowly but very, very surely Russia will be borne backwards on the tides of history until it is as impoverished as it ever was in its history -- except for the new Tsar and his boyars of course, who will be just fine.

What Russia's trajectory demonstrates most clearly is the abject failure of capitalism as a system of political economy. It was the capitalist elites who refused to impose any meaningful sanctions as Russia oppressed its own people and attempted to extend its control over its "near abroad," culminating in the first invasion of a European nation since, well, Russia did it in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. It was the capitalist elites that failed to respond to the collapse of the Soviet Empire with a latter-day Marshall Plan, preferring to declare the "end of history" and pocket the spare change. All because there was money to be made in Russia under Putin, and money is more to capitalists than human rights, world peace or anything else the bulk of the world's people need and desire. No more. It is beyond doubt in 2022 that capitalism has failed in every nation where it has been tried.

[Pangurstan]

America not letting Russia invade Ukraine

Gotta love it when Orientalists conveniently forget the 200 years of American Imperialism specifically, and the 600 years of Western Imperialism in general - both of which are still claiming lives and destroying nations to this very day - whenever singling out eastern countries for having a "history" of violence, war, tyranny, genocide, etc.

When did I say that America isn't imperialist? There are plenty of examples of American imperialism, but they aren't in Eastern Europe.