Anarchism, Arguments For and Against

[Port Caverton]

Why haven’t we gotten another one of these going yet? We DO definitely need WAY more of contemporary anarchism nowadays!

because the bolsheviks were awesome and the only crime they committed was giving ayn rand an education

And deporting poles

[Prima Scriptura]

Anarchism is literally impossible because there’s always gonna be some form of a government. All of the schools iPad dream, but Anarcho-communism the cake the most oxymoronic. Anarcho-capitalism wins for being the most dangerous, and Anarcho-primitivism wins for being the most stupid

Tf does schools iPad dream mean

I meant to type “pipe dream”

[BEEstreetz]

So, as I've told OP back on June 7th, 2 days after the thread was made, they've made the thread very unapproachable to other Anarchists.
I thought my reformulation would receive more attention and re-direct the course of discussion but it appears I was wrong. A chain I've seen reading back was comparing Anarchism to Proto*-Fascism, which is an interesting (intuitive) observation. They don't have a set definition, to quote an Italian dictator who hijacked Fascism from Proto-Fascists "Fascism is neither left nor right, it is not on either political position, it is dynamic as it shapes its values, beliefs and approaches based on the needs of the state". If you were to cross out the first and the last word, that exact definition also fits Anarchism. The second thing they have in common is the support group, the class more impoverished than the proletariat which Marx despised - the lümpenproletariat - historically the back-bone of both Fascism and Anarchism.
Besides this divergence (which devolved once again into complete nonsense), nothing has happened on this thread.
It might appear as if the OP is gatekeeping Anarchism by the definition they gave. I'd encourage more gatekeeping among Anarchists, especially if they're already connected to other ones in RL. Anarchists, especially organized cells, must stay vigilant of both right and left spies inside them. They're either there to steal supporters for their own party or were sent there by tax money.
Nothing more to add. Arguments for and against - you can at least manage to see who is potentially a fed in these replies.

[Sordhau]

So, as I've told OP back on June 7th, 2 days after the thread was made, they've made the thread very unapproachable to other Anarchists.
I thought my reformulation would receive more attention and re-direct the course of discussion but it appears I was wrong. A chain I've seen reading back was comparing Anarchism to Proto*-Fascism, which is an interesting (intuitive) observation. They don't have a set definition, to quote an Italian dictator who hijacked Fascism from Proto-Fascists "Fascism is neither left nor right, it is not on either political position, it is dynamic as it shapes its values, beliefs and approaches based on the needs of the state". If you were to cross out the first and the last word, that exact definition also fits Anarchism. The second thing they have in common is the support group, the class more impoverished than the proletariat which Marx despised - the lümpenproletariat - historically the back-bone of both Fascism and Anarchism.
Besides this divergence (which devolved once again into complete nonsense), nothing has happened on this thread.
It might appear as if the OP is gatekeeping Anarchism by the definition they gave. I'd encourage more gatekeeping among Anarchists, especially if they're already connected to other ones in RL. Anarchists, especially organized cells, must stay vigilant of both right and left spies inside them. They're either there to steal supporters for their own party or were sent there by tax money.
Nothing more to add. Arguments for and against - you can at least manage to see who is potentially a fed in these replies.

I, for one, welcome Anarchists fighting among themselves to keep their naive and poorly-thought utopianism as irrelevant as it should be.

[BEEstreetz]

Given your responses on the Egoist and the Raider threads,
I couldn't care less what you support or don't.

[Sordhau]

Given your responses on the Egoist and the Raider threads,
I couldn't care less what you support or don't.

Yes, I imagine empathy conflicts rather harshly with your delusional worldview based on psychopathic narcissism as a desirable trait that society should seek to promote, encourage, and cultivate. Your apathy is thus quite understandable.

[BEEstreetz]

Given your responses on the Egoist and the Raider threads,
I couldn't care less what you support or don't.

Yes, I imagine empathy conflicts rather harshly with your delusional worldview based on psychopathic narcissism as a desirable trait that society should seek to promote, encourage, and cultivate. Your apathy is thus quite understandable.

Dear freelads, I've come to the conclusion that we have been infiltrated by a Bolshevik, whose army has killed our dear Batko. Please watch what you say from now on.

GEA 563: THREAD IS WATCHED BY PARTISANS AND FEDS. SILENCE OR MISINFORM. THREAD IS WATCHED BY PARTISANS AND FEDS. SILENCE OR MISINFORM.

[HISPIDA]

Yes, I imagine empathy conflicts rather harshly with your delusional worldview based on psychopathic narcissism as a desirable trait that society should seek to promote, encourage, and cultivate. Your apathy is thus quite understandable.

Dear freelads, I've come to the conclusion that we have been infiltrated by a Bolshevik, whose army has killed our dear Batko. Please watch what you say from now on.

GEA 563: THREAD IS WATCHED BY PARTISANS AND FEDS. SILENCE OR MISINFORM. THREAD IS WATCHED BY PARTISANS AND FEDS. SILENCE OR MISINFORM.

oh, honey. jenny's not a bolshevik.

i am!

[Port Caverton]

Dear freelads, I've come to the conclusion that we have been infiltrated by a Bolshevik, whose army has killed our dear Batko. Please watch what you say from now on.

GEA 563: THREAD IS WATCHED BY PARTISANS AND FEDS. SILENCE OR MISINFORM. THREAD IS WATCHED BY PARTISANS AND FEDS. SILENCE OR MISINFORM.

oh, honey. jenny's not a bolshevik.

i am!

No you're a liberal.

[Ifreann]

What manner of cringe am I witnessing?

[HISPIDA]

oh, honey. jenny's not a bolshevik.

i am!

No you're a liberal.

if giving praise to comrades lenin, stalin, and mao makes me a liberal then i don't wanna be anything else

[Port Caverton]

No you're a liberal.

if giving praise to comrades lenin, stalin, and mao makes me a liberal then i don't wanna be anything else

Proof that the Dems are communists.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Well, I don't think I need to put my views out there since they're very obvious based on my signature.

But... I'll put my two cents in here:

Anarchism will never work. Ever. Modern, industrialized society with education, electricity, clean water supply, etc. cannot and will not work without the proper institutions in place which cannot exist under anarchist societies. You need institutions to run education, the electrical grid, etc. and you need an organization to monitor and regulate said institutions... which is what we most certainly wouldn't call "anarchist".

Economically and socially it's extremely unstable. The closest we can get to anarchism whilst having the government still work is minarchism but that's libertarianism which anarchists really, REALLY hate.

[Socialist Federation of Mali]

I was an anarchist and a Syndicalist for many years. Then I actually left the farm I lived on and worked in a factory. My experiences with impotent unionization, and their ability to become another oppressive cog in the industrial system effectively ruined my belief in anarchism. That and the way state governments in my county (USA) effectively trample over federal law to oppress minority groups ended any belief I could have in an anarchist society. It’s unrealistic, disorganized and would lead to far greater suffering of its populace than a different model of leftist society.

[Ifreann]

I was an anarchist and a Syndicalist for many years. Then I actually left the farm I lived on and worked in a factory. My experiences with impotent unionization, and their ability to become another oppressive cog in the industrial system effectively ruined my belief in anarchism. That and the way state governments in my county (USA) effectively trample over federal law to oppress minority groups ended any belief I could have in an anarchist society. It’s unrealistic, disorganized and would lead to far greater suffering of its populace than a different model of leftist society.

I'm confused, you became disillusioned with anarchism by living under a system that is extremely not anarchism?

[Page]

Well, I don't think I need to put my views out there since they're very obvious based on my signature.

But... I'll put my two cents in here:

Anarchism will never work. Ever. Modern, industrialized society with education, electricity, clean water supply, etc. cannot and will not work without the proper institutions in place which cannot exist under anarchist societies. You need institutions to run education, the electrical grid, etc. and you need an organization to monitor and regulate said institutions... which is what we most certainly wouldn't call "anarchist".

Economically and socially it's extremely unstable. The closest we can get to anarchism whilst having the government still work is minarchism but that's libertarianism which anarchists really, REALLY hate.

Anarchism is not anti-institution and not anti-organization. It's anti-coercion. A society can organize as much as people wish and still be anarchist so long as one is free to withdraw from an organization at any time.

[Duvniask]

Well, I don't think I need to put my views out there since they're very obvious based on my signature.

But... I'll put my two cents in here:

Anarchism will never work. Ever. Modern, industrialized society with education, electricity, clean water supply, etc. cannot and will not work without the proper institutions in place which cannot exist under anarchist societies. You need institutions to run education, the electrical grid, etc. and you need an organization to monitor and regulate said institutions... which is what we most certainly wouldn't call "anarchist".

Economically and socially it's extremely unstable. The closest we can get to anarchism whilst having the government still work is minarchism but that's libertarianism which anarchists really, REALLY hate.

Anarchism is not anti-institution and not anti-organization. It's anti-coercion. A society can organize as much as people wish and still be anarchist so long as one is free to withdraw from an organization at any time.

All societies rely on force and coercion to some extent. It's in their very nature. Associating with fellow human beings involves, if not laws backed up by state coercion, norms of conduct that, when broken, lead to ostracization and/or other forms of punishment and exclusion. Societies that don't propagate their own internal logic inevitably dissolve and give way to other kinds of societies or to none at all.

[Duvniask]

No you're a liberal.

if giving praise to comrades lenin, stalin, and mao makes me a liberal then i don't wanna be anything else

You're a liberal because your entire vantage point is bourgeois to the core, and you're too ignorant and swept up in your own ass-kissing of murderous psychos to recognize it.

[Denoidumbutoniurucwivobrs]

Anarchism only works for groups of friends that promise not to kill each other. Anarchism enacted on larger populations will only lead to chaos, not because everyone is going to be blowing things up, but the select few that choose to commit murder and other heinous things cannot and will not be punished unless someone takes the situation into their own hands. In a large population, the "select" few could be in the tens of thousands.
It only takes one card to topple the whole stack.

[Page]

Anarchism only works for groups of friends that promise not to kill each other. Anarchism enacted on larger populations will only lead to chaos, not because everyone is going to be blowing things up, but the select few that choose to commit murder and other heinous things cannot and will not be punished unless someone takes the situation into their own hands. In a large population, the "select" few could be in the tens of thousands.
It only takes one card to topple the whole stack.

I don't think the aggregate damage inflicted by that select few in an anarchist society would exceed the aggregate damage inflicted by the state in present day society.

[Sordhau]

Anarchism only works for groups of friends that promise not to kill each other. Anarchism enacted on larger populations will only lead to chaos, not because everyone is going to be blowing things up, but the select few that choose to commit murder and other heinous things cannot and will not be punished unless someone takes the situation into their own hands. In a large population, the "select" few could be in the tens of thousands.
It only takes one card to topple the whole stack.

I don't think the aggregate damage inflicted by that select few in an anarchist society would exceed the aggregate damage inflicted by the state in present day society.

You're missing his point entirely. An Anarchist society has no vehicle to prevent mass social movements from forming that threaten said society or it's Anarchist nature. The only means by which an Anarchist society can preserve it's own Anarchist nature is to have a state, but if it has a state it's explicitly not Anarchism. This is the general problem with statelessness in general. The state may be evil but it also preserves the status quo and if you want to maintain a status quo you need a state. Anarchism has no state, therefor it cannot preserve it's own status quo - not from internal resistance nor from external interference. The state apparatus is necessary to ensure the survival of the society it regulates because a society ultimately cannot survive on it's own without a state - not when surrounded by state societies. History proves time and again that stateless societies can't beat state societies and you're never going to abolish all states everywhere.

[Theodores Tomfooleries]

Well, I don't think I need to put my views out there since they're very obvious based on my signature.

But... I'll put my two cents in here:

Anarchism will never work. Ever. Modern, industrialized society with education, electricity, clean water supply, etc. cannot and will not work without the proper institutions in place which cannot exist under anarchist societies. You need institutions to run education, the electrical grid, etc. and you need an organization to monitor and regulate said institutions... which is what we most certainly wouldn't call "anarchist".

Economically and socially it's extremely unstable. The closest we can get to anarchism whilst having the government still work is minarchism but that's libertarianism which anarchists really, REALLY hate.

Anarchism is not anti-institution and not anti-organization. It's anti-coercion. A society can organize as much as people wish and still be anarchist so long as one is free to withdraw from an organization at any time.

Anarchism is definitely anti-institution and anti-organization. The only "organization" that Anarchism allows is basic organizations into classes based on wealth or power... which is how society has always organized itself. Institutions require governing bodies to regulate them and make sure they're doing their job. If not then corporations do it and usually the only people insane enough to think corporations being the only people capable of providing you with basic needs are ancaps.

Maybe with collectivist anarchism it's not anti-organization. But for individualists they're absolutely anti-organization which leads to the collapse of society as a whole.
Anarchism is everything that society shouldn't be. Modern society cannot and will not function properly without a state.

[Chan Island]

Anarchism is not anti-institution and not anti-organization. It's anti-coercion. A society can organize as much as people wish and still be anarchist so long as one is free to withdraw from an organization at any time.

Anarchism is definitely anti-institution and anti-organization. The only "organization" that Anarchism allows is basic organizations into classes based on wealth or power... which is how society has always organized itself. Institutions require governing bodies to regulate them and make sure they're doing their job. If not then corporations do it and usually the only people insane enough to think corporations being the only people capable of providing you with basic needs are ancaps.

Maybe with collectivist anarchism it's not anti-organization. But for individualists they're absolutely anti-organization which leads to the collapse of society as a whole.
Anarchism is everything that society shouldn't be. Modern society cannot and will not function properly without a state.

And it's why historically, anarchists in wars always lose. Their fundamental belief is in being suspicious of organisation which just cannot survive in a harsh world with organised enemies.

[Mountains and Volcanoes]

Anarchism is definitely anti-institution and anti-organization.

The only "organization" that Anarchism allows is basic organizations into classes based on wealth or power... which is how society has always organized itself. Institutions require governing bodies to regulate them and make sure they're doing their job. If not then corporations do it and usually the only people insane enough to think corporations being the only people capable of providing you with basic needs are ancaps.

Maybe with collectivist anarchism it's not anti-organization. But for individualists they're absolutely anti-organization which leads to the collapse of society as a whole.

Anarchism is everything that society shouldn't be. Modern society cannot and will not function properly without a state.

And it's why historically, anarchists in wars always lose. Their fundamental belief is in being suspicious of organisation which just cannot survive in a harsh world with organised enemies.

That’s why we need Total liberation!

[Nipponkyo]

Pros of anarchism: None
Cons of anarchism: It's anarchy, a free-for-all for murders, rapists, terrorists, and thieves.