Police Reform in the United States

[Free Algerstonia]

Abortion is most likely going to be criminalized federally.

shoulda voted harder big guy

vote blue no matter who

[Indomitable Friendship]

I know & that's the problem, universalism when most relationships are close & not between hundreds & more of people. Human relationships still revolve around a tribal template.

We don't have tribal society anymore. That ended 5000 years ago when the first civilization formed in the Tigris and Euphrates river valley.

Proof? Human relations still revolve around the family & close relationships. Governments are just confederacies of individuals & tribes. Law enforcement runs counter to the default mode of human sociality.

[Ifreann]

No it wouldn’t be actually. Abortion isn’t a right, therefore the states don’t have the authority to rule on it

Not the topic of the thread.

The point is that the laws you say must be enforced are hostile to people's basic rights, and are likely to get even worse. Without the law being enforced, women can get abortions, kids can play sports, and you could visit Texas.

[Thermodolia]

Before this turns into a threadjack, let me just say

So even matters not mentioned in the constitution come under 10th Amendment restrictions unless congress is explicitly or implicitly authorised by a specific part of the constitution.

The constitution doesn't mention abortion one way or the other and I won't post my moral views on it as whatever I say I'll offend somebody.
Returning to topic:
abolishing the police on a federal level is also against the 10th Amendment.

This is correct. The police are on the state, county and municipal level. There is no national police force in the US.

Yes there are. There’s several actually.

The FBI, ICE, DEA, The railroad police, Amtrak Police, NCIS, and others

[San Lumen]

This is correct. The police are on the state, county and municipal level. There is no national police force in the US.

Yes there are. There’s several actually.

The FBI, ICE, DEA, The railroad police, Amtrak Police, NCIS, and others

There jurisdiction is limited though.

[San Lumen]

We don't have tribal society anymore. That ended 5000 years ago when the first civilization formed in the Tigris and Euphrates river valley.

Proof? Human relations still revolve around the family & close relationships. Governments are just confederacies of individuals & tribes. Law enforcement runs counter to the default mode of human sociality.

Try reading a history book.

Who enforces the law?

[Page]

Some would even suggest the police be abolished outright, though this is an incredibly fringe belief. I personally side with this group for the purposes of weakening the present state authority, but I don't think its practicable to institute and as such people should just be prepared to act in self-defense should they be the victim of an officer's aggression.

Psh, tankies.

Police abolition doesn't mean everyone is on their own. It means, at least from my anarchist perspective, the abolition of law enforcement in favor of community services that opt for mediation rather than force in all possible circumstances, and that use force when necessary in accordance with the parameters set by the democratic communities which they serve.

If there's somebody shooting up a school, do not pass go, do not collect $200, shoot the motherfucker in the head, absolutely. I consider that apolitical common sense.

[Thermodolia]

Yes there are. There’s several actually.

The FBI, ICE, DEA, The railroad police, Amtrak Police, NCIS, and others

There jurisdiction is limited though.

Lol no it’s not.

The FBI can literally pick you up if they feel like it. Same with DEA and ICE.

Check points for border patrol can go as far inland as 100 miles from any port of entry (that includes airports)

Railroad police can arrest you even if you are not on railroad property.

The PATRIOT Act tossed a lot of jurisdiction limiting things out the window

[Indomitable Friendship]

Proof? Human relations still revolve around the family & close relationships. Governments are just confederacies of individuals & tribes. Law enforcement runs counter to the default mode of human sociality.

Try reading a history book.

Who enforces the law?

History validates what I just said. The government enforces the law.

[Cantport]

It means, at least from my anarchist perspective, the abolition of law enforcement in favor of community services that opt for mediation rather than force in all possible circumstances, and that use force when necessary in accordance with the parameters set by the democratic communities which they serve.

So people in a racist area could explicitly or implicitly instil a racial bias into the use of force guidelines?'

[Uiiop]

It means, at least from my anarchist perspective, the abolition of law enforcement in favor of community services that opt for mediation rather than force in all possible circumstances, and that use force when necessary in accordance with the parameters set by the democratic communities which they serve.

So people in a racist area could explicitly or implicitly instil a racial bias into the use of force guidelines?'

Possible but at worst this merely would be an lesser form of what's already flawed with the current system, no?

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

So people in a racist area could explicitly or implicitly instil a racial bias into the use of force guidelines?'

If your community has a democratic consensus against even nominal racial equality, then you have bigger problems than community control over law enforcement.

[Uiiop]

So people in a racist area could explicitly or implicitly instil a racial bias into the use of force guidelines?'

If your community has a democratic consensus against even nominal racial equality, then you have bigger problems than community control over law enforcement.

Yeah i don't see what's wrong with this that wouldn't be wrong with either democracy or federalism. I oppose the latter so that's clearly more than fair but not really an knock.

[Hukhalia]

Some would even suggest the police be abolished outright, though this is an incredibly fringe belief. I personally side with this group for the purposes of weakening the present state authority, but I don't think its practicable to institute and as such people should just be prepared to act in self-defense should they be the victim of an officer's aggression.

Psh, tankies.

Police abolition doesn't mean everyone is on their own. It means, at least from my anarchist perspective, the abolition of law enforcement in favor of community services that opt for mediation rather than force in all possible circumstances, and that use force when necessary in accordance with the parameters set by the democratic communities which they serve.

If there's somebody shooting up a school, do not pass go, do not collect $200, shoot the motherfucker in the head, absolutely. I consider that apolitical common sense.

but as a "tankie" i only want police abolition because then there's a vacuuum for My Cops instead

[Page]

It means, at least from my anarchist perspective, the abolition of law enforcement in favor of community services that opt for mediation rather than force in all possible circumstances, and that use force when necessary in accordance with the parameters set by the democratic communities which they serve.

So people in a racist area could explicitly or implicitly instil a racial bias into the use of force guidelines?'

This same problem already exists in the world of states. You know, China genociding the Uyghurs and Turkey culturally genociding the Kurds and such. I don't really want racists to have their own kingdoms, especially not if an oppressed minority is living there, but that's not a valid critique of anarchism when it's already reality.

[Uiiop]

Psh, tankies.

Police abolition doesn't mean everyone is on their own. It means, at least from my anarchist perspective, the abolition of law enforcement in favor of community services that opt for mediation rather than force in all possible circumstances, and that use force when necessary in accordance with the parameters set by the democratic communities which they serve.

If there's somebody shooting up a school, do not pass go, do not collect $200, shoot the motherfucker in the head, absolutely. I consider that apolitical common sense.

but as a "tankie" i only want police abolition because then there's a vacuuum for My Cops instead

I don't think there's an difference between that and other people's opinion on this. They just think that even if the police will just become what it ought to be on it's own and do not let any alternative design to bring forth that ought to fuck with things.

[Cantport]

So people in a racist area could explicitly or implicitly instil a racial bias into the use of force guidelines?'

Possible but at worst this merely would be an lesser form of what's already flawed with the current system, no?

Why lesser?
If racism is dumb doesn't it follow that the most intelligent 10% of people will be less likely to be racist than members of the 90% who are less intelligent than them?

[Uiiop]

Possible but at worst this merely would be an lesser form of what's already flawed with the current system, no?

Why lesser?
If racism is dumb doesn't it follow that the most intelligent 10% of people will be less likely to be racist than members of the 90% who are less intelligent than them?

That's an oversimplification of how stupidity and ideology work.
Our current attempts of democracy is letting shit slide people don't actually approve off. I oppose an completely decentralized approach but if there was some way of it being actually fairly democratic across the board it would be better than status quo.

[Cantport]

Why lesser?
If racism is dumb doesn't it follow that the most intelligent 10% of people will be less likely to be racist than members of the 90% who are less intelligent than them?

That's an oversimplification of how stupidity and ideology work.
Our current attempts of democracy is letting shit slide people don't actually approve off. I oppose an completely decentralized approach but if there was some way of it being actually fairly democratic across the board it would be better than status quo.

Do you have any sources that racism is not connected to intelligence?
here's one that connects racism and sexism to low IQ at 11 (https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... idity.html)

[Ifreann]

That's an oversimplification of how stupidity and ideology work.
Our current attempts of democracy is letting shit slide people don't actually approve off. I oppose an completely decentralized approach but if there was some way of it being actually fairly democratic across the board it would be better than status quo.

Do you have any sources that racism is not connected to intelligence?
here's one that connects racism and sexism to low IQ at 11 (https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... idity.html)

IQ isn't a measure of intelligence.

[Uiiop]

That's an oversimplification of how stupidity and ideology work.
Our current attempts of democracy is letting shit slide people don't actually approve off. I oppose an completely decentralized approach but if there was some way of it being actually fairly democratic across the board it would be better than status quo.

Do you have any sources that racism is not connected to intelligence?
here's one that connects racism and sexism to low IQ at 11 (https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... idity.html)

An unsourced op-ed by an non shrink ain't really evidence.

More over this doesn't really prove your claim that 90% of the population is that dumb.

[Cantport]

Do you have any sources that racism is not connected to intelligence?
here's one that connects racism and sexism to low IQ at 11 (https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... idity.html)

An unsourced op-ed by an non shrink ain't really evidence.

They have a relevant masters' so although it's not hard evidence it's a lot better than, "I'm going to randomly make something up"
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/wray-herber ... e.co.uk%2F)

IQ isn't a measure of intelligence.

Perhaps but it is a decent, though imperfect, measure of other things including both life and educational outcomes in America and, apparently, levels of racism.

In other words, the same group of people who have wealth and power within white America are less likely to be racist than other white Americans.

[Uiiop]

An unsourced op-ed by an non shrink ain't really evidence.

They have a relevant masters' so although it's not hard evidence it's a lot better than, "I'm going to randomly make something up"
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/wray-herber ... e.co.uk%2F)

IQ isn't a measure of intelligence.

Perhaps but it is a decent, though imperfect, measure of other things including both life and educational outcomes in America and, apparently, levels of racism.

In other words, the same group of people who have wealth and power within white America are less likely to be racist than other white Americans.

That link just leads into an log-in screen.
The richest person around here has been sued for racism and our presidents fondly remembers segregationists. The free market doesn't choose the smartest people it seems regardless of your other arguments.

[Saiwania]

here's one that connects racism and sexism to low IQ at 11 (https://www.psychologicalscience.org/ne ... idity.html)

It's just ideologically biased BS.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... nequality/

There are racists who have Doctorates or lesser college degrees. You obviously can't be inherently stupid if you can manage to jump through all of the hoops to get a higher education institution to admit you and actually earn a degree because you managed to do all of the hard work to graduate and maintain good grades in the process.

David Duke has a BA from LSU.

[Ifreann]

An unsourced op-ed by an non shrink ain't really evidence.

They have a relevant masters' so although it's not hard evidence it's a lot better than, "I'm going to randomly make something up"
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/wray-herber ... e.co.uk%2F)

IQ isn't a measure of intelligence.

Perhaps but it is a decent, though imperfect, measure of other things including both life and educational outcomes in America and, apparently, levels of racism.

IQ is none of those things.

In other words, the same group of people who have wealth and power within white America are less likely to be racist than other white Americans.

Of course the wealthy and powerful in America are racist.